Sure stones are ready to go. No waiting, spritz and hone. Easier faster and you can use pressure when you have to, something that film wont hold up to. By the time the film is set up and squeegeed, Im done with the grit and moving on. I can do a factory GD in under 6 minutes. Stropping not included. And I have whatever grit Im working on always. No guess work to see whether the film is good or spent. But have it your way! I find myself to be very content and satisfied with what Im doing as you may be.
does lapping film work good?
- Thread starter Dadygoble
- Start date
I wouldn't mind the trouble if I enjoyed the edges with film. I would hone on Rhode Island sidewalks if the edges were good.
I have tried several finishing methods and enjoy JNATs the best and a good coticule edge next.
Best advice I can give anyone is to try out many methods. Lots of folks here are willing to send you their favorite edges.
I have tried several finishing methods and enjoy JNATs the best and a good coticule edge next.
Best advice I can give anyone is to try out many methods. Lots of folks here are willing to send you their favorite edges.
Can you really not use pressure with film? I know it's iffy with sandpaper, depending on the backing and quality, but I thought film was more resilient?
And yeah, Alfredo, if I had any reason, at all, to think that film edges would impress me, I wouldn't be putting trying it off. But almost everyone I know who uses both film and stones prefers the results off stones. You could put forward the argument that they got bad film or lack experience with film, but that's contrary to the evident benefits of film (consistency and ease of use). In the end there are people who use and enjoy film, and more power to them, but I think there's enough evidence out there to say that the majority who fairly compare film (or any synthetic) and natural edges prefer natural edges; provided the natural stones they've used were of a decent quality. I have no doubts if I were given the choice between a Mueller stone or Welsh slate and film, I'd prefer film. I'd have a stack of it right now that would put Seraphim to shame. But with the quality of stones which I (and most shavers) have access to, film has been put on the back burner for me for years, because there's really nothing about it that demands I try it. It works. It's easy. It's cheap. Those are all great qualities. But they're not what I'm looking for, nor are they what every honer is looking for. It's a very good option to have available, but muddying the water by denying that most people find its results lacking compared to other options, regardless of ones own results, actually detracts from promoting its benefits, because you begin to look like a "fanboy".
And yeah, Alfredo, if I had any reason, at all, to think that film edges would impress me, I wouldn't be putting trying it off. But almost everyone I know who uses both film and stones prefers the results off stones. You could put forward the argument that they got bad film or lack experience with film, but that's contrary to the evident benefits of film (consistency and ease of use). In the end there are people who use and enjoy film, and more power to them, but I think there's enough evidence out there to say that the majority who fairly compare film (or any synthetic) and natural edges prefer natural edges; provided the natural stones they've used were of a decent quality. I have no doubts if I were given the choice between a Mueller stone or Welsh slate and film, I'd prefer film. I'd have a stack of it right now that would put Seraphim to shame. But with the quality of stones which I (and most shavers) have access to, film has been put on the back burner for me for years, because there's really nothing about it that demands I try it. It works. It's easy. It's cheap. Those are all great qualities. But they're not what I'm looking for, nor are they what every honer is looking for. It's a very good option to have available, but muddying the water by denying that most people find its results lacking compared to other options, regardless of ones own results, actually detracts from promoting its benefits, because you begin to look like a "fanboy".
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Well, unfortunately as usual this has turned into the dreaded 'film is terrible!' vs. 'natural stones are terrible' debate. And I am not throwing any rocks at anyone as I may have fueled that fire as much as anyone else.
So let's all back up three steps and I will try to get back on topic; as I remember, the question posed about a gazillion posts ago was something like 'Does lapping film work good'. To directly and simply answer the question: yes, it does work well for honing razors for shaving. The question was not if film was the best choice, the only choice, etc., etc., and these debates really do not help the new user at all in my opinion. So I will stick with yes, film works well to hone a razor.
There are other methods, actually quite a few and the cost / benefit / resulting edge(s) can be (and apparently will be
) debated forever but I think we can all agree that all the common methods work to produce a good (note I did NOT SAY ideal or 'the best') shaving edge.
Brian
So let's all back up three steps and I will try to get back on topic; as I remember, the question posed about a gazillion posts ago was something like 'Does lapping film work good'. To directly and simply answer the question: yes, it does work well for honing razors for shaving. The question was not if film was the best choice, the only choice, etc., etc., and these debates really do not help the new user at all in my opinion. So I will stick with yes, film works well to hone a razor.
There are other methods, actually quite a few and the cost / benefit / resulting edge(s) can be (and apparently will be
) debated forever but I think we can all agree that all the common methods work to produce a good (note I did NOT SAY ideal or 'the best') shaving edge. Brian
The "good" part of the question makes it subjective.
Does it work? Yes
Does it work well? Not for me.
Does it work? Yes
Does it work well? Not for me.
This is from the original post. To this question I think we can all answer ABSOLUTLY. See , it's only until he gets some stones. Then he can decide to use whatever suits him.
If the OP is still around, please forgive me for talking about you in the third person.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
For the benefit of the OP, as you can't tell, we're all hone nerds and we prefer our own edges over others!
Cheers, Steve
Cheers, Steve
But again, thinking 'big picture' here, lapping film does work to produce a shaving edge on a razor. I think everyone can agree with that statement.
At some point we all end up arguing about which steak is the best cut when along comes a starving person and asks if he / she can eat beef to sustain his / her life. Of course the 'big picture' answer is yep, it is all from the same cow, and the similarities are far greater than the differences, as far as nutrition (and the ability to clog arteries) goes. Which one a given person prefers on his / her own dinner plate is very much a fine detail that need not be of great concern for the nourishment phase of the discussion.
By the way, NY strip is THE best steak for grilling, tenderloin otherwise. I just wanted to get a jump on that argument....
Brian
At some point we all end up arguing about which steak is the best cut when along comes a starving person and asks if he / she can eat beef to sustain his / her life. Of course the 'big picture' answer is yep, it is all from the same cow, and the similarities are far greater than the differences, as far as nutrition (and the ability to clog arteries) goes. Which one a given person prefers on his / her own dinner plate is very much a fine detail that need not be of great concern for the nourishment phase of the discussion.
By the way, NY strip is THE best steak for grilling, tenderloin otherwise. I just wanted to get a jump on that argument....
Brian
I think the OP is long gone and is probably on a truck forum asking 'Which is best, Chevy or Ford?'.
Brian
Brian
Wouldn't that be; 'Is a Chevy a good truck, until I can get a Ford'?I think the OP is long gone and is probably on a truck forum asking 'Which is best, Chevy or Ford?'.
Brian
Hold on here.
So your viewpoint about film is basely entirely on hearsay and other people's opinions?
I have tried honing on a JNat at least. I found the process difficult (to a large degree because I wasted alot of time trying to hone on a dished stone).
I did end up getting an acceptably shave ready edge, and I'm sure I could have refined that to the point of getting a MUCH better edge, since that was only my initial foray into using that type of hone. But at least I got my hands on the thing, and could speak about my own experience with trying to figure it out.
If you base your opinions on what other "knowledgeable" people may have to say, you would also believe that Gold Dollars are not capable of being a reliably shave worthy razor, that resting the edge for 24 hours will allow a razor to regain it's sharpness, that the Oprah Winfrey Show is quality television (it was very popular, so it must be good...), etc, etc.
C'mon now!
Yeah well, once it is covered in slurry it probably does not matter what part of the cow it came from anyway....
Brian
Brian
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
You know, I think it's time for another thrilla in manila....
Cheers, Steve
Cheers, Steve
I prefer NY strip pan fried with a beurre rouge sauce made from the fond ; )
Hold on here.
So your viewpoint about film is basely entirely on hearsay and other people's opinions?
I have tried honing on a JNat at least. I found the process difficult (to a large degree because I wasted alot of time trying to hone on a dished stone).
I did end up getting an acceptably shave ready edge, and I'm sure I could have refined that to the point of getting a MUCH better edge, since that was only my initial foray into using that type of hone. But at least I got my hands on the thing, and could speak about my own experience with trying to figure it out.
If you base your opinions on what other "knowledgeable" people may have to say, you would also believe that Gold Dollars are not capable of being a reliably shave worthy razor, that resting the edge for 24 hours will allow a razor to regain it's sharpness, that the Oprah Winfrey Show is quality television (it was very popular, so it must be good...), etc, etc.
C'mon now!
But have you tried someone else's edge off a JNAT?
Yeah well it has now gotten so bad that I think I want to try a natural stone (that sounds bad even in my own head!). I've been getting this metal image of myself, covered in mojo (Easy Boys!), basking in the glory that is slurry under one's fingernails. But I am afraid, truly afraid, of all the nuances of which stone, which slurry stone (especially ever since Craig mentioned he has two cats that leave 'slurry stones' in the cat box), how to lap the stone, when to use the incantation, which direction to face when honing, etc., etc.. Maybe someone located close to me, w/in driving range, could sport me a known, good, perfect edge finishing Jnat with a cat stone or two as needed? I will of course leave a deposit of suitable amount in the event the Jnat's power overtakes me and I feel the urge to escape to another country, sell the stone(s) and live like a king as long as I live.... I even have a 1,200 grit DMT if that can be used to raise the (the word sticks in my throat) slurry.
Gee, if only there were some knowledgeable, experienced Jnat guys living in, say, RI....
Brian
Gee, if only there were some knowledgeable, experienced Jnat guys living in, say, RI....
Brian
I have not.
I'm interested in both the edge quality, but also the ability of putting said edge on there myself.
I'm fully aware that I was not able to maximize the result I had. And I don't doubt the capacity JNats have to put a great shaving edge on a razor.
I was able to put a great shaving edge on my very first razor ever within a half hour of receiving said razor.
I spent a few hours dinking around with that JNat, trying to do the same (albeit with 5-6 years honing experience behind me),and ended up with a mediocre result.
Yes, I should give it another try, I'm sure it could be great.
But, for me, usability is also of value and a factor in the equation, and the effort to payoff ratio that I was seeing wasn't very enticing.
I've talked to my local JNat pusher, we are in negotiations for me to try one out again sometime...
30 minutes and you had an edge going. Ok, well there is a curve for sure as you and i think everyone knows. Why are we using straight razors? They need stropping and honing, why not just use a de and be done with it? I mean all that time and money! A good strop can buy 1000 de blades. Answer, we like the shave and are willing to spend some cash and time on it. My favorite edge on my favorite stone may not suit you! Nor yours mine. would that mean that you and I cant hone? No. We are honing to our taste. Will your edge and mine allow you to shave? Yes. So this is where the line is kind of crossed. Now I know a jnat used well can produce a laser sharp edge that can be harsh as well. And it can be used differently and produce an equally sharp yet more skin friendly finish. So what you end up with is trial and error until you find what you want out of a stone. Just like you tickle film edges. We tickle natural edges. The vaiables with a jnat are infinite. But once you establish what it is you want, you can repeat it easily.
But in light of the OP being interested in lapping film as a gateway into honing, which is more preferable?
Something that a knuckle head like me can do first time, easy in 30 minutes, or a method that takes skill, time, and effort to produce an edge that he may, or may not prefer?
My experience was that the learning curve was extremely fast for film, and extremely slow for a JNat.
Something that a knuckle head like me can do first time, easy in 30 minutes, or a method that takes skill, time, and effort to produce an edge that he may, or may not prefer?
My experience was that the learning curve was extremely fast for film, and extremely slow for a JNat.
