Damn Comfortable Shave

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

All this talk about them forced me to once again visit the beautiful handles.

Apparently they're available in silvertip and horse. That saves me money. Assuming I could actually order them and they'd actually ship them to me in the US.

(I have a Zenith silvertip and a Zenith horse. Both are very much to my liking, but I don't need a second of either.)

Truth is, I don't need any more brushes. I'm not particularly likely to buy any more unless until the perfect knot, in the perfect size, in the perfect handle shows up at the perfect time.

If it weren't for the Fixed Four I'd be trying my Omega Jade today to compare notes with Adam. The DO1 of boars? My guess is consistency or the lack of consistency in knots leads to a lot of conversation which talks up the sale of brushes.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[flask28]

Jim, thank you for the reminder that the Proraso Pro is one of the few brushes left on my list. I remember you mentioning these three knots are very similar and as I really like two of the three, the third seems like a safe bet.

Those truly are beautiful handles. I'm hopeful @Phoenixkh can coax Dr. Michael to order some

 

[Guido75]

I feel I play along in the bigger leagues now! I actually have a boar brush and it is the Proraso one. Yeah me! It is also my lather hogger, but super soft and comfortable. I particularly like its size.

Funnily enough the Proraso brush is way too big for the Proraso lathering bowl.

Cheers,

Guido

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Those Zenith brushes picture in your earlier post truly are beautiful handles. I'm hopeful @Phoenixkh can coax Dr. Michael to order some

I tried to talk him into ordering unbleached knots.
(I can't say I tried very hard.)

I feel I play along in the bigger leagues now! I actually have a boar brush and it is the Proraso one. Yeah me! It is also my lather hogger, but super soft and comfortable. I particularly like its size.

Funnily enough the Proraso brush is way too big for the Proraso lathering bowl.

Cheers,

Guido

Congratulations. I'm not entirely sure we have the same brush.

My Pro Pro certainly was not what I'd call soft for a long time. A lot of offline dry to wet to dry cycling was required. My guess is one or two things are at play.

1. Soft is a subjective term. What we consider soft is partially determined by our skin.
2. Even within the iterations of one brush model the knots are inconsistent over time.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Guido75]

That’s true. Soft May not be the accurate term nor is the following one but it might be a more accurate description of what I mean: floppy when wet.

But everything shaving is subjective.

Guido

 

[Phoenixkh]

View attachment 1623506

Jim, thank you for the reminder that the Proraso Pro is one of the few brushes left on my list. I remember you mentioning these three knots are very similar and as I really like two of the three, the third seems like a safe bet.

Those truly are beautiful handles. I'm hopeful @Phoenixkh can coax Dr. Michael to order some

No luck so far..... I've emailed him a couple times lately.... follow-up emails... and haven't heard back.

 

[flask28]

That’s true. Soft May not be the accurate term nor is the following one but it might be a more accurate description of what I mean: floppy when wet.

But everything shaving is subjective.

I've really struggled with my terminology to describe brushes. "Soft" in particular is a tough word to use without a lot of context. I've started to try to specifically talk about the feeling of the tips vs the feeling of the backbone just to keep it straight in my head.

There's far more to describing a brush, like splay, scritch, scrub and density, but for the most part those characteristics seem to derive from the fundamental nature of the tips or the backbone, so I start with those simple terms. Thinking about it now, you could probably argue density drives backbone not the other way around, but why quibble

I'm trying to keep the word "soft" in my tip lexicon and describe the stiffness of the brush as having more or less backbone. The real problem is the implied "in comparison to what?" which is where all this YMMV business comes from. To guido's point, everything is subjective.

But I find the engineer in me wants to pivot and say, "well, ok, can't we try a relative scale then?"

Jim, I'm sorry my friend. My boar-to-badger scale was off now that I've been thinking about it. The Jade isn't the D01, this Zenith Cobber Scrubby is!!

Comparing these three is a weird exercise though, the copper B36 is new new, 5-6 cycles, the Zenith unbleached has perhaps 15 cycles and two preshaves under its belt and the Omega has 20 cycles and 55 shaves on it. But whatever, let's just judge them as the stand today:

Brush	Knot Size	Tip Softness (1-5)	Backbone (1-5)	Fun Factor	Notes
Zenith B36 Boar	28x50	1	5	1	It's a boot brush made of sticks
Zenith 502 unbleached	26x55	3	3	3	Jury is out if there is enough backbone
Jade Boar	27x52	5	4	4	Almost perfect
Muhle 25mm STF	25x52	10	2	2	Too small

I expect the 502 will get softer tips over time but I hope it does not lose much more backbone. The B36 Copper Scrubby is something else altogether - if the tips get to Omega Jade softness and it relaxes it's backbone 10-15% it could be one of my favorites. But that might take YEARS from the product description.

The bleached B36 has a ton more backbone than the unbleached 502, but if the knots were the same size I don't think that would be true at all. I will say that the Zenith bleached knots seem a little more densely packed than the unbleached do but that could just be me misreading the difference the chemicals make.

The Proraso Pro Boar, I see, is a 28x65 knot - a taller ratio knot in comparison to these for sure, it could make sense it's got less backbone and feels more floppy even if it's the same coarser Omega grade.

Very interesting stuff!

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I've really struggled with my terminology to describe brushes. "Soft" in particular is a tough word to use without a lot of context. I've started to try to specifically talk about the feeling of the tips vs the feeling of the backbone just to keep it straight in my head.

There's far more to describing a brush, like splay, scritch, scrub and density, but for the most part those characteristics seem to derive from the fundamental nature of the tips or the backbone, so I start with those simple terms. Thinking about it now, you could probably argue density drives backbone not the other way around, but why quibble

I'm trying to keep the word "soft" in my tip lexicon and describe the stiffness of the brush as having more or less backbone. The real problem is the implied "in comparison to what?" which is where all this YMMV business comes from. To guido's point, everything is subjective.

But I find the engineer in me wants to pivot and say, "well, ok, can't we try a relative scale then?"

View attachment 1623665

Jim, I'm sorry my friend. My boar-to-badger scale was off now that I've been thinking about it. The Jade isn't the D01, this Zenith Cobber Scrubby is!!

Comparing these three is a weird exercise though, the copper B36 is new new, 5-6 cycles, the Zenith unbleached has perhaps 15 cycles and two preshaves under its belt and the Omega has 20 cycles and 55 shaves on it. But whatever, let's just judge them as the stand today:

Brush	Knot Size	Tip Softness (1-5)	Backbone (1-5)	Fun Factor	Notes
Zenith B36 Boar	28x50	1	5	1	It's a boot brush made of sticks
Zenith 502 unbleached	26x55	3	3	3	Jury is out if there is enough backbone
Jade Boar	27x52	5	4	4	Almost perfect
Muhle 25mm STF	25x52	10	2	2	Too small

I expect the 502 will get softer tips over time but I hope it does not lose much more backbone. The B36 Copper Scrubby is something else altogether - if the tips get to Omega Jade softness and it relaxes it's backbone 10-15% it could be one of my favorites. But that might take YEARS from the product description.

The bleached B36 has a ton more backbone than the unbleached 502, but if the knots were the same size I don't think that would be true at all. I will say that the Zenith bleached knots seem a little more densely packed than the unbleached do but that could just be me misreading the difference the chemicals make.

The Proraso Pro Boar, I see, is a 28x65 knot - a taller ratio knot in comparison to these for sure, it could make sense it's got less backbone and feels more floppy even if it's the same coarser Omega grade.

Very interesting stuff!

Nicely done, Adam.

It seems obvious to me that many brushes, even within the same brand and the same brush model, have knots which vary from batch to batch and/or within batches and/or over time.

I hope you continue using, elucidating, and refining the system you used in this post.

Above is my very inexpensive Zenith unbleached boar. According to me the loft is way too tall. However, the brush performs well, far beyond its price point and leagues beyond my expectations.

On the left, it's brand new. On the right, from the top, one can can see it has broken in to a degree.

In my opinion, it has soft tips and plenty of delicious scrub. Thus it has "enough" backbone. I'm not sure that the amount of backbone needed from brush to brush is the same when the standard is "enough" and the measurement is "delicious scrub.

You might find this a very interesting brush. I have.

You're exactly right. Subjectivity is not the only story, but it is a big part of the tale.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Wednesday. A good shave.

Same kit as all month. Very good shave.

New (vintage) Gillette razor has arrived, from England where it was made. Looks pretty good. I've not tried yet to clean it up nor have I closely examined it.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Guido75]

Looks pretty good indeed. Flat Bottom I presume? Judging from the way the handle and head connect.

Nice!

Guido

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Looks pretty good indeed. Flat Bottom I presume? Judging from the way the handle and head connect.

Nice!

Guido

Thanks.

Yes, Made in England Flat Bottom. I think Raised Flat Bottom, but I have no knowledge about the subject. I bought the one Cal found on eBay, and suggested, knowing he knows and wouldn't steer me wrong.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Cal]

Yes, Made in England Flat Bottom. I think Raised Flat Bottom, but I have no knowledge about the subject.

Nope. If it was an RFB that would transform it into a Hybrid Tech:

which are rarer and MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE than FBs.

You ask how I know this; here's mine:

It's probably the smoothest shaver I own,
but I prefer my Flat Bottom Tech:

 

[Rosseforp]

Nope. If it was an RFB that would transform it into a Hybrid Tech:
View attachment 1625538
which are rarer and MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE than FBs.

You ask how I know this; here's mine:
View attachment 1625550
It's probably the smoothest shaver I own,
but I prefer my Flat Bottom Tech:
View attachment 1625553

Don't feel bad Jim, I made the same mistake when I got my FBT from @Cal
I think you will enjoy it as much as I do mine.

~doug~

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Nope. If it was an RFB that would transform it into a Hybrid Tech:
View attachment 1625538
which are rarer and MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE than FBs.

You ask how I know this; here's mine:
View attachment 1625550
It's probably the smoothest shaver I own,
but I prefer my Flat Bottom Tech:
View attachment 1625553

Thanks for clearing that up, Cal.

I'm glad to have the razor even though I have not used it yet. I'm very glad to know the correct name for it, Flat Bottom Tech. Thank you.

If I understand you, Cal, the Hybrid Tech and the Raised Flat Bottom Tech are the same razor with different nomenclature. Correct?

Is there another name for the the Flat Bottom Tech I have?

Why do you prefer the FBT to the smoothest shaver you own?

Don't feel bad Jim, I made the same mistake when I got my FBT from @Cal
I think you will enjoy it as much as I do mine.

~doug~

I'm in very good company then, Doug.

Most people have only one middle name. I have four: Mistake Prone Butt Dialer.






My shave for today, Thursday, was good.

That's a very good thing as life is both extra busy (good and bad) and marked by a couple of recent problems with my health leading to pain. Nothing too serious it appears but I hope it all ends soon. I'm not inclined to be long suffering by choice. I also know we don't have anywhere near the control we might like to think we do. Life is hard sometimes; I know that's not news to anybody, but it sometimes seems like news to me. Which must mean I'm especially blessed to have such a good life.

Good shaves help.

I'm so happy to have picked this kit for the Fixed Four. I'll also be happy to move to my more usual fickleness-with-gear state in April. (Yes, I'm considering doing the adjustable month in April, but that doesn't lock me in much.)

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[never-stop-learning]

Thanks for clearing that up, Cal.

I'm glad to have the razor even though I have not used it yet. I'm very glad to know the correct name for it, Flat Bottom Tech. Thank you.

If I understand you, Cal, the Hybrid Tech and the Raised Flat Bottom Tech are the same razor with different nomenclature. Correct?

Is there another name for the the Flat Bottom Tech I have?

Why do you prefer the FBT to the smoothest shaver you own?





I'm in very good company then, Doug.

Most people have only one middle name. I have four: Mistake Prone Butt Dialer.


View attachment 1625628



My shave for today, Thursday, was good.

That's a very good thing as life is both extra busy (good and bad) and marked by a couple of recent problems with my health leading to pain. Nothing too serious it appears but I hope it all ends soon. I'm not inclined to be long suffering by choice. I also know we don't have anywhere near the control we might like to think we do. Life is hard sometimes; I know that's not news to anybody, but it sometimes seems like news to me. Which must mean I'm especially blessed to have such a good life.



View attachment 1625621


Good shaves help.

I'm so happy to have picked this kit for the Fixed Four. I'll also be happy to move to my more usual fickleness-with-gear state in April. (Yes, I'm considering doing the adjustable month in April, but that doesn't lock me in much.)

Happy shaves,

Jim

The technical name for the Hybrid Tech is the Tech/NEW Hybrid.

The NEW Raised Flat Bottom is very similar in design, but is an Open Comb razor.

 

[Guido75]

Technically the Hybrid indeed belongs to the NEW series rather than the Tech series - in that sense it is a closed comb NEW.

 

[Cal]

If I understand you, Cal, the Hybrid Tech and the Raised Flat Bottom Tech are the same razor with different nomenclature. Correct?

David (@never-stop-learning) gave the best answer in post #12,875 above.

Is there another name for the the Flat Bottom Tech I have?

No. (Of course that's forgetting Set Numbers, whether it was made in England or Canada, and all that irrelevant [to me] stuff.)

Why do you prefer the FBT to the smoothest shaver you own?

It's more efficient...
BUT (moving to Open Combs), when it comes to NEWs with similar baseplates, I prefer my NEW RFB to my NEW FB (it's smoother and equally efficient).

Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Friday's shave was quite good albeit a bit hurried.

I like this photograph as it shows off the cool radiator handle (Tibam titanium 80 mm).

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Thanks, gentlemen, for the information about the various Gillette razors.

(Not that I necessarily understand it. Not that I actually need to at this point as I do not anticipate purchasing any more vintage Gillettes anytime soon.)





Anyway...

I'm still curious, and if someone answered this I missed it, is there another name for my Flat Bottom Tech?

Gillette history would make for a good PhD dissertation. I have several books on the subject. Sometimes I read them. Sometimes I delve into the online material. The stuff is confusion city.

Good thing it is a pass fail course.





Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[never-stop-learning]

Gillette history would make for a good PhD dissertation. I have several books on the subject. Sometimes I read them. Sometimes I delve into the online material. The stuff is confusion city.

Good thing it is a pass fail course.


View attachment 1626207


Happy shaves,

Jim

Welcome to the "Dumb *** Club", my friend.

The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.