I was playing around with my stones today and decided to perform a bit of an experiment. I wanted to try to eek out a bit more keenness on a modified GD #66. So, after honing it up as far as my meager skills could take it, I tried working up a slurry on my coticule and transferring it to my Norton 8k. It seems to have improved the edge a bit but I have yet to test shave with it. Has anyone else tried doing this? If so, how did it work out for you?
Coticule Slurry on a Norton
- Thread starter JonM
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Can't you be banned for life putting a slurry on a Norton?
Actually, I was wondering the same thing this morning.
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Hmmm... My little mind is thinking that adding any type of slurry in the finishing stages is going to have an adverse effect on the edge. Slurry is just for the early rounds.
I have used a coticule slurry stone on a Cnat in the past, to speed it up. Just as an experiment, but that works.
I have used a coticule slurry stone on a Cnat in the past, to speed it up. Just as an experiment, but that works.
unlike a natural stone..garnetts dont break up as fine IMO...but as your "meager skills" improve...you will know exactly what to do...
For a slurry with a Norton 8k, how about this little guy instead?
I honestly never tried it because the norton is amazing by itself...
That's a prep stone..like a flattering stone
And I quote:
The prep stone is used with the finest grits of the Norton waterstones. The prep stone creates a slurry that helps polish the edge of the knife or tool. The stone is made of aluminum oxide abrasive. The stone measures 3/4" x 3/4" x 3" in length.
Like disburden, I like my 8ks naked as they come, but if one wants to try a slurry, why not?
I tried a coticule slurry on my 1k this afternoon because...well...because it was there. Not sure really what difference it made. I think it might have actually dulled my the edge, but I'm at a level of ability where that could just as easily have been a bad lap from me.
It looked cool though.
It looked cool though.
Umm... Don't do that. Particles from the wet/ dry are coming loose from the paper and floating around in that slurry. If you have to do it, use a diamond plate.
When honing my gold dollars that are impossible to shave with I put canola spray on my coticule and then transfer the slurry to the J-nat and then post my findings on the "other" website.
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- #13
I can't say how much of a difference it truly made in the end. But, I got to test shave with it this morning and I was very pleased with the results. As I had mentioned previously, the razor is a modified Gold Dollar #66 that I had brought up from blunt to shave ready. I managed to get a 2-pass BBS out of it with no nicks, cuts, or burn. It had the mellow edge of a coticule and it was a very pleasurable experience. My progression was my Norton 1k, 4k, 8k, coticule, Norton 8k w/ coticule slurry (just a few laps - about ten or so), and finally a few laps on pasted balsa. For someone who has been honing (more like practicing honing) for just a few weeks - and only a few days of that on a coticule, I couldn't be happier with the progress I've made on it.
The norton 4/8 stone can hone a razor to shave ready without slurry at all. If you learn how to use it properly you dont need any tricks to smooth the edge. I can use my norton and when I am done shave off it wasily and comfortably.
It is not a harsh shave at all. If you like to use slurry thats cool but I honestly dont see the improvement myself.
It is not a harsh shave at all. If you like to use slurry thats cool but I honestly dont see the improvement myself.
A Norton 8k is not capable of honing an edge to my personal shave-ready standards.
No way - no how. I don't care if almighty himself hones the blade, the resulting edge is only at the brink of being 'shaveable' - the edge will not go ATG without causing extreme pain for me.
Having said that - I do believe that there are people who are fine with that edge. To each their own. I have different needs and I'll be the judge of what shave-ready is for me.
Having used the N 8k extensively - and exhausted my tolerance for that stone through trial/error - I found that creating slurry on the 8k with a DMT sets the edge back.
Using the prep stone set the edge back further.
In this case - 'setting the edge back' is in direct comparison to the same razor honed on the same 8k without slurrying it.
No way - no how. I don't care if almighty himself hones the blade, the resulting edge is only at the brink of being 'shaveable' - the edge will not go ATG without causing extreme pain for me.
Having said that - I do believe that there are people who are fine with that edge. To each their own. I have different needs and I'll be the judge of what shave-ready is for me.
Having used the N 8k extensively - and exhausted my tolerance for that stone through trial/error - I found that creating slurry on the 8k with a DMT sets the edge back.
Using the prep stone set the edge back further.
In this case - 'setting the edge back' is in direct comparison to the same razor honed on the same 8k without slurrying it.
Let me see if I have this right. There's a certain video out there that shows that if a blade has been "properly" honed on a Norton 4k, there should be no swarf upon using the 8k. So no slurry stone is needed there. End of video. But if one wanted to bridge between the 4k and the 8k, then the Norton prep stone would do it, "setting it back" as you say to somewhere between 4k and 8k from the start. So then, if swarf was formed with a slurry in this case, it would "correct" what should have been done with the 4k to begin with and would emulsify with the slurry rather than bond with the stone. For the finish, one could rinse off the stone, use just water with the 8k, and arrive at the desired 8k edge.
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Not familiar with the video you're referencing. I'm relating my own experiences. Honestly - I dislike watching honing videos most of the time.
Having said that - I do agree that excessive swarf on the 8k means the 4k work was not done.
I learned that early on through trail/error; it's rather obvious if you're paying attention.
Mostly - what it does is mess up the 8k's surface and leave a trail of grit I didn't want there.
Someone else may like doing that - much like putting oil on a Coticule which is something I don't find necessary.
To each their own - everyone can believe whatever they want to - and hone any way they like.
AlOx is tough stuff; 9.0 MOHS, emulsify it with whatever you want - the size of the particles isn't going to change.
Running a blade over the side of the Prep stone a few times - I did, it took me a good 30 minutes to get the scratches out.
What I wrote earlier; The edge from the Norton 8k slurried with with Prep stone was not as refined (sharp) as the edge honed on the Norton 8k by itself.
I did not write that it was retarded to 4k, or any other specific K.
What I left out was that using the prep stone also left me with bizzaro rogue scratches in the bevel.
Never had to consider a 'bridge' from the 4k Norton to the 8k Norton. I don't believe a bridge of any type is needed there at all.
IMO - the 8k Norton follows the 4k Norton well enough if the honing is done well.
If the honing isn't done well - then going back to the 4k is in order.
Personally - not getting max out of the 8k because the 4k stage was done poorly makes no sense.
Having said that - I do agree that excessive swarf on the 8k means the 4k work was not done.
I learned that early on through trail/error; it's rather obvious if you're paying attention.
Mostly - what it does is mess up the 8k's surface and leave a trail of grit I didn't want there.
Someone else may like doing that - much like putting oil on a Coticule which is something I don't find necessary.
To each their own - everyone can believe whatever they want to - and hone any way they like.
AlOx is tough stuff; 9.0 MOHS, emulsify it with whatever you want - the size of the particles isn't going to change.
Running a blade over the side of the Prep stone a few times - I did, it took me a good 30 minutes to get the scratches out.
What I wrote earlier; The edge from the Norton 8k slurried with with Prep stone was not as refined (sharp) as the edge honed on the Norton 8k by itself.
I did not write that it was retarded to 4k, or any other specific K.
What I left out was that using the prep stone also left me with bizzaro rogue scratches in the bevel.
Never had to consider a 'bridge' from the 4k Norton to the 8k Norton. I don't believe a bridge of any type is needed there at all.
IMO - the 8k Norton follows the 4k Norton well enough if the honing is done well.
If the honing isn't done well - then going back to the 4k is in order.
Personally - not getting max out of the 8k because the 4k stage was done poorly makes no sense.
The video he is speaking of is the one made by Sham.
This is the way I use my norton, and it works perfect. I used to not get good edges from the norton, they were harsh, not anymore.
This is the way I use my norton, and it works perfect. I used to not get good edges from the norton, they were harsh, not anymore.
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Yes, that's the video. Thanks for the link.
Okay, then the moral of the story here would seem to be don't use a slurry stone on a Norton 8k after the Norton 4k. All I have been saying is that if a slurry stone were to be used, then the one that Norton intended for the stone would seem to be the one to use for starters. Haven't tried the Norton 8k, so I can't speak from direct experience. I was just supposing that if one wanted to bring the Norton 8k down a notch prior to honing with plain water, out of curiosity, then use of the Norton prep stone might achieve this, sort of like a coticule. (And this does not necessarily presuppose a Norton 4k to 8k progression; it could be just a touch-up, for instance.)
Two questions about the alox then for Gamma. First, when you say that you ran a blade over the side of a prep stone a few times, leading to the scratches, are you saying that you literally passed the blade over the prep stone and not the slurry on the 8k? And second, when you say that alox is tough stuff and the particle size isn't going to change, how is this the case when it is used in the T-I alox-diamond paste rated at ~10k JIS and abrasive (polishing) powder rated at 0.5 microns, or equivalent to crox?
Okay, then the moral of the story here would seem to be don't use a slurry stone on a Norton 8k after the Norton 4k. All I have been saying is that if a slurry stone were to be used, then the one that Norton intended for the stone would seem to be the one to use for starters. Haven't tried the Norton 8k, so I can't speak from direct experience. I was just supposing that if one wanted to bring the Norton 8k down a notch prior to honing with plain water, out of curiosity, then use of the Norton prep stone might achieve this, sort of like a coticule. (And this does not necessarily presuppose a Norton 4k to 8k progression; it could be just a touch-up, for instance.)
Two questions about the alox then for Gamma. First, when you say that you ran a blade over the side of a prep stone a few times, leading to the scratches, are you saying that you literally passed the blade over the prep stone and not the slurry on the 8k? And second, when you say that alox is tough stuff and the particle size isn't going to change, how is this the case when it is used in the T-I alox-diamond paste rated at ~10k JIS and abrasive (polishing) powder rated at 0.5 microns, or equivalent to crox?
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Thanks. Sham is an intereresting cat.
That seems about right. When I was first using the Norton - I toggled back/forth between the 8k & 4k when I realized that I was needing more 4k work before 8k.
The Toggling allowed me to learn how far I needed to go on that stone - eventually I just learned how to use the 4k correctly.
I wouldn't say I ever got a harsh edge off the 8k Norton; it just doesn't get edges keen enough for me.
Mind you - I insist on a smooth effortless ATG under my upper lip and under my chin; that's my benchmark.
I have whiskers under my nose that a Feather DE blade can get hung up on.
