Refreshing Slurry with JNats

[algebro]

I'm learning to use JNats following TomoNagura's guide and was wondering--should I be refreshing/making a new slurry at each stage or just move to the next nagura when the existing slurry has broken down all the way or dissipated? I know jnat slurries break down and become finer as you work them, so on one hand, it seems like you'd be bringing the edge backwards by making another slurry. On the other hand, usually by 25-30 minutes the slurry seems completely broken down (much less tactile feedback, dark muddy color) and/or thin due to the periodic spritz of water to keep the surface of the stone from drying out. The wording in that guide makes it sound like I should be honing at each stage for a lot longer than 25 minutes.

In short, is it OK to make a new slurry a couple of times before moving to the next stage? Or am I just going in circles if I do that?

 

[Unknown Stone]

I usually find myself doing two rounds of slurry on any given Nagura regardless of which synthetic I jump off and occasionally a 3rd especially if I’m jumping from a lower grit synthetic but I don’t really spend 25-30 minutes per slurry though.

I maight not exhaust each slurry either but it depends on how the edge is coming along.

Starting over on any slurry could technically be considered a slight step back but the overlap is productive more often than not IMO…

 

[JPO]

In short, is it OK to make a new slurry a couple of times before moving to the next stage?

Yes, if you need to do more work.

There is a long list of factors that play in here.
If you start counting strokes and timing your honing you are not really focusing on the fundamentals that are important.

 

[algebro]

If you start counting strokes and timing your honing you are not really focusing on the fundamentals that are important.

Thanks, although maybe I wasn't stating my question clearly. It was not, "how many minutes should I hone?" but rather, "given how the particles in jnats work, is it counterproductive to make a new slurry when one is exhausted?". If I'm understanding correctly, the answer is probably "no" as long as you finish breaking down the last slurry before moving onto the next nagura.

 

[Steve56]

If you have to use multiple slurries (in general), I think that your edge isn’t quite ready to finish or your particular stone is unusually slow. I usually take an edge to 8-10k synth, or a or a shiro nagura progression before finishing. On the finisher, I usually spend around 3-4 minutes honing.

My edges right before the finisher will shave well, but maybe not quite as smooth as off the finisher. Try giving your pre-finisher edges a good stropping and shave with them. If the shave is sub par, your edges probably aren’t ready to finish and you’re maybe asking a bit much of the finisher.

Good honing!

 

[GreazyThumbs]

I use a full nagura progression and I only use the slurry from each stone once and break it down and dilute with water then move to the next stone. I finish with a whispy tomo slurry and finish on that. Normally mirrored edges with this progression, I have nevery hard to slurry twice at any one step to get amazing results.

 

[Unknown Stone]

One thing that might be helpful the bear in mind when using the template mentioned in the first post is that this isn’t necessarily a honing template in terms of achieving a sharp, shaving edge the 1st time through.

The template by all appearances seems to be geared towards familiarizing the user with the basic characteristics of the stones involved and how they contribute to edge development. This could take a long time to get together in and of itself….

But once someone does get a general sense of how all the stones behave and influence the edge, then one has to shift towards becoming one’s own teacher from that point forward.

Because as you can see from the relatively limited posts in this thread the approaches are quite varied and therefore can be difficult to use any one of them as a guaranteed method for success.

-Does exhausted slurry necessarily guarantee that you have optimized the edge at that stage or could these things be distinct from one another?

-Does doing another round of slurry mean that you have missed the mark before hand or could another round of slurry give you an extended opportunity to read the feedback?

 

[Christian1212]

IMO the important thing is to realize these are naturals and there can be many answers. The correct answer is just very dependent on your set up.

If using Botan, I would start with a 5k or so synthetic then do several botan sessions. Check results after each session and see how many sessions it takes until the results are the same. Once you have that maxed botan edge you can move to tenjou. Can do the same thing with multiple tenjoi and see if multiple slurries change anything.

This will help find the end point for each nagura. Note, the next asano might be fast enough that it doesn't need the previous nagura "maxed" out. Just keep honing with them and you will find out what works for you with that set.