Considering a coticule.

[Wid]

Right now I have the Norton set with a C12k for my honing needs. I have been getting pretty good results with this set up. You know how it is; I am looking to getting a different stone and have been doing a lot of reading about coticules.

If I do go ahead with this, one question is, will I still need another finishing stone ? The reason for the question is I see that it is rated to roughly 8K. I have shaved off the Noton 8K and while it is possible I don't care all that much for it. It's not as comfortable an edge as what the Chinese stone can give.

 

[Munxcub]

There are lots of people shaving off their Coti's. and I think I am one of them. (Rambus007 honed mine and I think he said he Coti finishes)

I would like to follow this thread as I am also fairly certain I want to go Coti. I like the idea of a natural combo, that can take a blade whose bevel is set to shave ready. (if such a beast exists). Or is it necessary to have a combo for that? Can 1 coti with various slurries get that job done?

 

[rambus007]

There are lots of people shaving off their Coti's. and I think I am one of them. (Rambus007 honed mine and I think he said he Coti finishes)

I would like to follow this thread as I am also fairly certain I want to go Coti. I like the idea of a natural combo, that can take a blade whose bevel is set to shave ready. (if such a beast exists). Or is it necessary to have a combo for that? Can 1 coti with various slurries get that job done?

Yes I finished on my coti with water only. I have a BBW/coti natural combo stone but I rarely use my BBW side. Having said that it's not necessary to get a combo if you're not going to use the BBW side. The garnets off the BBW are slightly larger and so are less abrasive than the coti side. This is all explained on www.coticule.be and I would recommend you read up on cotis and how to use them there. It's a great site managed by Bart. What I have learned (through experience and reading afterwards) is that you can actually OVERHONE a blade on a coticule which is what I did to one of my W&B choppers! The garnets (what gives a coti it's cutting power) come loose from the stone when you create your slurry with another piece of coti. These garnets are so hard that they are almost like diamonds and of course we can't see them because they are so small. But you can hear them and you can see them cutting because the slurry will soon darken after only 2-3 strokes.

I will try to explain from memory. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will chime in. The way it works is that the garnet slowly cut away at the metal (destruction) and at the same time you will be creating your bevel. This is of course assuming you are setting the bevel on a dull razor. There will be one point when you are creating your bevel where the slurry starts to be more destructive then beneficial. This point is where you need to stop. How you know when to stop will be determined by whether it can shave arm hair. Once you can shave arm hair you MUST stop or else you will overhone your blade. Essentially once you are passed the shaving arm hair point you can continue to hone your razor into oblivion and it will never acquire a keen edge because the garnets have destroyed the bevel. I believe I can fix my chopper but I haven't had the time to go back and patiently recover my bevel. I think I can do this using my Norton 4k/8K combo and finish on the coti.

http://www.coticule.be/unicot.html
http://www.coticule.be/dilucot-honing-method.html

There are different ways to hone on coti but the two I've done are Unicot and Dilucot. I find the unicot method a bit harder. The dilucot method is easier for me because you simply start with a slurry and hone the blade meanwhile slowly DILUting the slurry with one drop of water after every 15-20 HALFSTROKES. Watch the video. It's very easy to follow.

 

[Munxcub]

So far it's doing great. I don't know that I'll go back to DE shaving (maybe travelling...) way less irritation. And it only seems to be getting better each shave. (maybe that's a technique thing being only 1 week in... lol)

 

[rambus007]

So far it's doing great. I don't know that I'll go back to DE shaving (maybe travelling...) way less irritation. And it only seems to be getting better each shave. (maybe that's a technique thing being only 1 week in... lol)

Yup I think it's the learning curve. You're patiently learning the correct angles and pressures to apply on the different facets of your face. I still have problems around the chin area myself. I vary my shaving utensil; sometimes using an SE Gem Featherweight or Rolls Razor and other times I'll use a Fatboy or one of my other DE razors and on weekends I'll use one of my straights.

 

[Munxcub]

My trouble spot is along the jaw, especially at the corner by my ear.

But back to Coti's, you have a combo and say you rarely use the blue side? Is this due to not having razors that far behind, or is it because you can achieve everything you need on the yellow side?

Oh, and what about a sizeable bout as opposed to a uniform rectangular hone?

 

[danjared]

If I do go ahead with this, one question is, will I still need another finishing stone ? The reason for the question is I see that it is rated to roughly 8K. I have shaved off the Noton 8K and while it is possible I don't care all that much for it. It's not as comfortable an edge as what the Chinese stone can give.

Here's your answer: http://coticule.be/the-cafeteria/message/14592.html

Don't put any meaning to the "8k". It was innocently meant to help those accustomed to synthetics--which, plagued with many different media and abrasive rating systems, are difficult to compare to each other anyway--choose coticules. And it backfired, especially now that the functionality of these lovely hones is so much better understood. Throw in a slurry stone and dilucot/unicot, and the "8k" is even more laughable. The simple answer is that, unless you get one of the very rare defective ones, which Ardennes-Coticule will honor with an exchange or refund (assuming you buy a recently-mined one), your coticule can most definitely be used as a finisher.

 

[danjared]

Oh, and what about a sizeable bout as opposed to a uniform rectangular hone?

You pay a price premium when you get a rectangular hone versus a bout just like you pay for cosmetic niceness--or blandness in my opinion--when you get a select grade coticule. Once you get over the fact that your bout has a funny shape, they are easy to use. That said, more rectangularly shaped bouts are less confusing to try to use.

 

[Joe Edson]

Here's your answer: http://coticule.be/the-cafeteria/message/14592.html

Don't put any meaning to the "8k". It was innocently meant to help those accustomed to synthetics--which, plagued with many different media and abrasive rating systems, are difficult to compare to each other anyway--choose coticules. And it backfired, especially now that the functionality of these lovely hones is so much better understood. Throw in a slurry stone and dilucot/unicot, and the "8k" is even more laughable. The simple answer is that, unless you get one of the very rare defective ones, which Ardennes-Coticule will honor with an exchange or refund (assuming you buy a recently-mined one), your coticule can most definitely be used as a finisher.

+1

A Norton 8K and a coticule are 2 different things. While each natural stone is different, I find that a coti will finish in the 10-12K range on my face, but again those numbers are subjective.

All I can say is that if all I had was a coti I could shave comfortably for the rest of my life. Granted I have HAD bad and have more than a half dozen different finishers so I'm always playing around.

Coticules though are probably the most versatile hone I have in my arsenal. Speaking of, I really want a bigger coti that is super fast with slurry for my dilucot. Maybe it is time to shoot Jared an email....

 

[Munxcub]

Well if you have any good work horse, newby friendly, "first hone" appropriate coti's laying around collecting dust... I could give it a home in the great white north.

 

[rambus007]

Well if you have any good work horse, newby friendly, "first hone" appropriate coti's laying around collecting dust... I could give it a home in the great white north.

Chris keep checking ebay. Sometimes you might find a good deal on a coticule like I did. Mind you I paid almost $80 with shipping for my combo stone but overall I think it was a good investment.

 

[rambus007]

My trouble spot is along the jaw, especially at the corner by my ear.

But back to Coti's, you have a combo and say you rarely use the blue side? Is this due to not having razors that far behind, or is it because you can achieve everything you need on the yellow side?

Oh, and what about a sizeable bout as opposed to a uniform rectangular hone?

I rarely use the BBW side because I don't have a BBW slurry stone. I've only got a coti slurry which Bart was kind enough to send to me. I might get a BBW slurry one of these days but I just don't need it right now. I could be wrong here but I believe you can set the bevel on both the BBW and the coti but the coti will allow you to take it further (ie: dilucot). The BBW can't compare to the coti as a finisher but I think it is possible to get a decent edge off the BBW. Maybe some of the other coti users will chime in and offer some input here. As Joe (Harvitz81) had mentioned if a person could only own one hone, then a coti would be your best bet. You can set a bevel on it with slurry and finish off it with water but you can't really remove chips. It would be easier to do chip removal with a dmt or lapping paper or some 1000 grit stone.

 

[thanks]

I sold off my Nortons, C12k, and soon a small Thuri as I only use my combo Coticules. They're great, easier to use than you'd think, and provide excellent finishes. I take my blades from not being able to shave arm hair, to incredibly sharp and smooth using one stone, and it's extremely satisfying. Read up on www.coticule.be and if you still want one order it from www.ardennes-coticule.com or www.thesuperiorshave.com

There is a lot of wrong information out there right now about these wildly misunderstood stones, so you almost have to see for yourself what the fuss is all about by just trying one.

 

[thanks]

I just recently started using my BBW side on my coticule. My honing went something like this;

1. Set the bevel with slurry on the Coticule side
2. Hone with heavy slurry on the BBW side, diluting every 15 set of x-strokes
3. After about five dilutions, splash a decent amount of water, and do 30 light x-strokes
4. Finish on the Coticule side with 60 feathery light x-strokes on water

Doing this the other day led me to the best edge I've ever put on a razor.

 

[homelessflea]

honestly they are a luxary and 2 me if you have money to burn go ahead.
i recently purchased the spyderco UF and i and having amazing results with this stone.
it is rated close to 15K.
and very cheap. the only problem is it is a cerrmic stone. so its does give as much feedback, but enough.

 

[thanks]

honestly they are a luxary and 2 me if you have money to burn go ahead.
i recently purchased the spyderco UF and i and having amazing results with this stone.
it is rated close to 15K.
and very cheap. the only problem is it is a cerrmic stone. so its does give as much feedback, but enough.

And the Spyderco UF isn't a luxury, or any finishing stone past his Norton 8k isn't a luxury either? I thought luxury is pretty much what the majority of this site is about

Well either way, pick your poison. YMMV, and all that.

 

[honed]

I started honing with a coti & since then HAD has struck bad & I'm a tinkerer by nature, so loads of experimentation has taken place.
But, I still return to the coti, for bevels, for intermediate polishing & a whole lot for finishing.

The coticule is like a good woman, learn what she likes & treat her right & she will be at your side, comforting & helping you for the rest of your life

 

[danjared]

honestly they are a luxary and 2 me if you have money to burn go ahead.
i recently purchased the spyderco UF and i and having amazing results with this stone.
it is rated close to 15K.
and very cheap. the only problem is it is a cerrmic stone. so its does give as much feedback, but enough.

You can certainly get a decently sized coticule with slurry stone (shipped even) for the price of a Spyderco UF. I consider that a fantastic deal, but to each their own. And yes, the Spyderco hones work wonderfully as well.

 

[Munxcub]

Keep in mind, if you can take it from no arm hair to shave ready on a combo coti, I'm guessing you can't do that with a Syperco UF. So there goes the savings right?

I would much rather get a great combo coti for $100-200, instead of 3 hones (bevel setter, 4k/8k, finisher) which even at $50 each (which I haven't seen) Would be about the same, maybe more. So 6 of 1 really...

I know my mind is pretty much made up, I'm just one of those guys who likes to analyze everything to death on the internet before bugging my wife enough talking and thinking about it that she finally says "enough! just buy the damn thing and shut up already!"

 

[ouch]

I work with a lot of fiber optic equipment, and we use attenuators at the end of the light guide cables to bring the signal within specs and to prevent the associated equipment from burning out. The pads are designed to reduce the incoming signal by a known factor, typically 5, 10, or 15 dB. One day, we received a large shipment of attenuators that for some reason were unlabled, rendering them if not useless, an enormous time waster.

My then boss (thankfully fired shortly thereafter) picked up one of the pads, held it towards the window at arm's length, squinted, and declared, "This looks like a 5dB pad".
What makes this story particularly amazing is that this would be Dr. Arthur Lintgen* was unable to answer the following question I asked him- "What is a decibel?**"

Whenever I hear someone say that a stone "feels" like 12K, or that they think it provides a 8-10K finish, I think of my former boss.










*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Lintgen

And for you doubters-
http://www.snopes.com/music/media/reader.asp


**Ten times the common logarithm of the ratio of two power levels. It is also 1/10 of a bel, named after Alexander Graham Bell, who owes this man a trillion dollars.