Can't master the King 1K

[TnutsShave]

Hey guys...I've been honing on films and was previously using a piece of 1000grit sand paper on the ceramic tile to set the bevel and it worked great. I thought, however, I needed a proper bevel setter. I purchased a good condition King 1K off the BST and this thing has me completely stumped.

I've tried pressure, no pressure, many laps, few laps, X strokes, straight on, yada yada yada. My "baseline" razor is one that I've honed many times.

It is removing a TON of metal, but I am not getting a good bevel edge on it (looks great, but it's not sharp). So, it's rendering the film progression moot. Any thoughts? I'm considering just going back to my sandpaper for the time being, but I'd like to be able to use this stone.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[jpcwon]

I think I was the one who sold it to you & I'm sorry to hear that you're having difficulties with the stone!

The King is deceptive; even though it "feels" abrasive, it's a soft stone in reality. Because of this, I have found that I get good results when I use firm pressure. Try doing 40x circles in both directions using firm pressure, followed by 15-20 x--strokes with medium pressure. You may have to repeat this 3 or 4 times (or more), but hopefully you'll get a good bevel from it eventually.

I have also found that the King works a little better with some slurry, so you may want to try raising a light slurry with a diamond plate (or whatever you use for this purpose). Also make sure the stone has been soaking for at least 15min before you hone on it; the King is a thirsty stone for sure... You'll get it, I have faith!!

 

[alx gilmore]

T.J.
I have been using the King 1k stones for 35 years now, and go through about one every 2or3 years. It might be a faster cutting stone then you are thinking, it should reset an existing bevel within 40 strokes on each side or less depending on how off the bevels are. I had to use 80 strokes on a razor a few days ago that had an existing double/micro bevel plus some small chips, the razor was a neglected blade. Below is a video of the 1k King resetting a bevel in 21 strokes on each side and it can be done with fewer. In TheAxMethod I always treat each side of the blade equally and the last few sequences on each side with a lighter hand. Getting a edge to cut hair off a 1k is problematic, but setting a bevel is fairly simple and fast.
Hope this helps, Alx

 

[oakeshott]

Alex, I get good results with my King 1k, but it's nothing like as effortless as what you have there for me to set my bevel. Really impressive.

OP,
Keep working at it. It took me days of trying and hours of continuous honing before I could figure out all the ways I was doing things wrong and simplify my process down to mostly doing things right. I'm still nowhere near what Alex just showed in his video, but if the razor's not too warped, it'll give me a bevel every time (eventually) with the King.
oake

 

[jpcwon]

I wonder then, if I was "overhoning" with the king after seeing Alx's post...I simply posted what has worked for me in the past..

Would you say that I am incorrect then, when I refer to the King as a "soft stone"?

 

[alx gilmore]

T.C.
Here is a photo of a perfectly formed flat bevel at 350x, notice how the King 1k scratches lead all the way to the edge of the blade. A full set bevel has to give the finishing stone access to the full bevel on each pass of the stone, at least to begin with, a micro bevel or a finessed edge can be developed over the flat bevel, but the really foundation work is creating a perfectly flat bevel. The King will do that, I keep my King in water 24/7 and I do not use a slurry and I am crazy about keeping it flat. Alx

 

[TnutsShave]

Great information guys...I'll give her a shot tonight and let you know!

 

[oakeshott]

T.C.
I keep my King in water 24/7 and I do not use a slurry and I am crazy about keeping it flat. Alx

Well, this is news to me. I was afraid that there were binders that would come apart with a 24/7 immersion. Going to drown the King right now.

 

[Kentos]

T.C.
Here is a photo of a perfectly formed flat bevel at 350x, notice how the King 1k scratches lead all the way to the edge of the blade. A full set bevel has to give the finishing stone access to the full bevel on each pass of the stone, at least to begin with, a micro bevel or a finessed edge can be developed over the flat bevel, but the really foundation work is creating a perfectly flat bevel. The King will do that, I keep my King in water 24/7 and I do not use a slurry and I am crazy about keeping it flat. Alx



View attachment 313804

Since that photo is so awesome, I want to add my opinion that if a low grit scratch is not completely polished out it will lead to microchipping at the point where the scratch intersects the edge. Most of the time I got them off my DMT where there was likely a rogue diamond that put an extra deep scratch in the bevel. YMMV

 

[life2short1971]

If a blade is in use 15-20 strokes will reset a bevel. If it has chipping or corrosion it goes up for there for me. I don't even try to cut a hair with it just get everything nice and clean and both sides meeting. Basically i agree with Alx Gilmores posts.

 

[oakeshott]

If a blade is in use 15-20 strokes will reset a bevel. If it has chipping or corrosion it goes up for there for me. I don't even try to cut a hair with it just get everything nice and clean and both sides meeting. Basically i agree with Alx Gilmores posts.

Scott, will 15-20 strokes (per side I assume) restore a bevel after running an edge across a glass or is it only true for a dulled edge that's been in use?

 

[alx gilmore]

Kent
I totally agree with you, micro chipping is right around the corner, and there is lot of fraile foil there in the photo. I look at honing as a healing process, first you injure the edge with the coarse grits to establish a bevel like in the photo, then you have to heal it with succeeding grits that get finer and finer. This is why a progression works so well with finely tuned blades. Using natural stones with friable grit will provide an in-house progression so to speak, but still the more you message the edge if you can maintain the bevel geometry in doing, so much the better as to work back into virgin steel that is clear and free of deep fissures. Any abrasive will chip steel at the edge, it is just that at the really fine levels the chipping is so much smaller than the material needed to be cut the physics cancel each other out. The quality of steel plays an important part here too.

Alx

 

[life2short1971]

If the edge is dulled very lightly it should. I will have to try it.

 

[life2short1971]

On a 5/8 with a superfine bevel I dulled the edge just enough where it would not cut armhair at all and 10 strokes per side was enough to cut armhair again. If dulled I would do 15-20 though.

 

[Proinsias]

I like to keep mine flat, sometimes lapping during honing. If it's removing plenty metal but just not delivering a good edge I'm thinking it's either in need of lapping or it's a technique issue. I've shaved off the king 1k with a good bit of stropping and it provides a functional edge for wtg, functional not overly comfortable.

In comparison to 1000 grit wet/dry I'd say it's pretty fine & slow but finishing with clean water and a light touch delivers a much smoother, cleaner bevel than the wet/dry will provide.

To regain the edge on the King after a light dulling on glass takes seconds on a razor I've honed myself on stones. On a razor new to me or one that had a previous bevel set with wet/dry it could take a whole lot longer.

Maybe pick a method and stick with? Light pressure, water only & x-strokes for a little each day should eventually end in a clean bevel that shaves armhair well.

 

[life2short1971]

Keeping the stone flat is essential as mentioned.

 

[life2short1971]

I sent you a pm Sham.

 

[Neurotopia]

Does the stone need lapping?

 

[Proinsias]

Yeah, it's fairly soft so needs to be regularly lapped.

 

[oakeshott]

I lap mine after every new bevel set. Granted, these are all ebay blades hitting the stone so there's a lot of work to be done on them.