Buffing Wheel Question

[migralda]

I bought a cheap bench grinder and use it as a polisher for my razor renovation, I bought a kit with various wheels and compounds from this company (uk) great service and good quality compounds.

Steel & Stainless Steel Polishing Kits for Bench Grinders

 

[Lord Fatboy]

I bought a cheap bench grinder and use it as a polisher for my razor renovation, I bought a kit with various wheels and compounds from this company (uk) great service and good quality compounds.

Steel & Stainless Steel Polishing Kits for Bench Grinders

Yeah, they do good work. Do you just do polishing, or start with the greaseless compound acting like sandpaper?

 

[migralda]

At the moment, as I have seen quoted elsewhwere, I use 'handraulic power' with a progression of wet and dry up to 2500 grit lapping film.
Then I move on to Polishing from grey down to pink compound which normally gives me what I want, not over shiny.
I have looked into greasless compounds to save on elbow grease but think they may be a bit aggressive.
Do you use it and how do you find it?

 

[NickyJ]

I've been looking into variable speed buffers. Seems like a steep jump between costs of reputable vs generic though.

I've had my eye on this one:
Variable Speed Buffers - PowerGrind-XP 6 3/4HP 115/240V Variable Speed Buffer
Found 6" for $230 & 8" for $247 on a few sites just by googling it.
900-3600 RPM seems pretty ideal. I'm just apprehensive about digital adjustments being another thing that can bust.

 

[Lord Fatboy]

I've been looking into va. Simable speed buffers. Seems like a steep jump between costs of reputable vs generic though.

I've had my eye on this one:
Variable Speed Buffers - PowerGrind-XP 6 3/4HP 115/240V Variable Speed Buffer
Found 6" for $230 & 8" for $247 on a few sites just by googling it.
900-3600 RPM seems pretty ideal. I'm just apprehensive about digital adjustments being another thing that can bust.

I'm no expert but I. really don't think that level of buffer is necessary for razor work. A simple buffer with a guarantee will do - the size of the wheels will compensate for it being single speed.

 

[Ice-Man]

I have a 4inch buffer with 6 inch wheel on it so its going slow, I find the slower the better not so much heat is involved. I do keep my fingers on the back side of the blade so i know how hot its getting, and I also use a Dremmel but again on slow and again finger on the backside of the blade and with both a glass of ice cold water if it starts to get to warm just dunk the blade.

 

[steveclarkus]

In recently bought a Ken Onion edition Work Sharp belt sharpener for knife sharpening. I worked on a dull razor for about an hour with the stropping belt and green micro honing paste. I think it is progressing but in the end I’m likely going to have to send the razor to a pro to get it shave ready.

 

[bluesman 7]

I have a 4inch buffer with 6 inch wheel on it so its going slow

Check your math again. A 6" wheel will have a surface speed 50% higher than a 4" wheel.

 

[Ice-Man]

Check your math again. A 6" wheel will have a surface speed 50% higher than a 4" wheel.

Ok I stand corrected.....
but my way works for mine, with a 6 inch wheel it stays cooler longer than the 4 inch and that works for me.
But the end result if you use a bench buffer its at your own risk, and you have to find what works for yourself.....

bluesman 7 You use them whats your input......

 

[bluesman 7]

I actually don't have a buffer. They tend to polish flaws rather that getting rid of them IME

 

[bberg100]

I actually don't have a buffer. They tend to polish flaws rather that getting rid of them IME

Yes, a buffer can enhance the flaws. Elbow grease and a little more elbow grease. Save the buffing for the final shine after the surface is flawless. Same with the scales, though most scale material sands much easier than the metal blade.

I have a couple mandrels for my lathe with buffing wheels. This setup is from Beall. Can crank the speed to whatever feel right and works on a particular item. Hard rosewoods buffed with the three compounds pictured leaves a hard, wet look shine. The white diamond works quite well putting a shine to most metals.

 

[paintflinger]

In recently bought a Ken Onion edition Work Sharp belt sharpener for knife sharpening. I worked on a dull razor for about an hour with the stropping belt and green micro honing paste. I think it is progressing but in the end I’m likely going to have to send the razor to a pro to get it shave ready.

Wait...what?

 

[Slash McCoy]

In recently bought a Ken Onion edition Work Sharp belt sharpener for knife sharpening. I worked on a dull razor for about an hour with the stropping belt and green micro honing paste. I think it is progressing but in the end I’m likely going to have to send the razor to a pro to get it shave ready.

No surprise, there. That thing is for sharpening knives, not razors. I suggest reading the lapping film thread, the bevel setting thread, and the pasted balsa thread. But especially the lapping film thread. Don't want to invest in a bunch of rocks? I can dig it. But stick with something that has a proven track record, not a knife sharpener.

 

[steveclarkus]

Yep, gave up on the sharpener strop after first day. Machine creates concave bevel. Bought rocks. Sent Boker to Larry @whippeddog. Learning in GD. Still having difficulty setting bevel all the way. Found good thread yesterday - basically man handle the process. Appreciate all the time you put into your posts. They’re very helpful. I’m not there yet but getting closer. I’m retired with plenty of time.

 

[steveclarkus]

Wait...what?

I was just using the stropping belt not grinding. Just experimenting - no damage
done. It would actually work if the belt could be kept flat but too much flex creates convex bevel.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Yep, gave up on the sharpener strop after first day. Machine creates concave bevel. Bought rocks. Sent Boker to Larry @whippeddog. Learning in GD. Still having difficulty setting bevel all the way. Found good thread yesterday - basically man handle the process. Appreciate all the time you put into your posts. They’re very helpful. I’m not there yet but getting closer. I’m retired with plenty of time.

I think you mean convex. A concave bevel would actually be pretty cool I think.

The bevel setting thread will absolutely without a doubt give you a good bevel first attempt if you just follow directions. All you need is a 12"x3"x3/4" piece of acrylic for a plate, and some red resin type wet/dry sandpaper. And 3M spray adhesive. For a nice vintage, start with 1000 grit. For a GD or similar, start with 220 grit, get it nearly there, then some 400 to 600 grit action, and then raise the burr with 1000 grit. Whichever way you go, clear the burr with ordinary alternating x strokes and you should have a great bevel. Get the acrylic from ebay vendor bhent (contact him and he will put up a listing for the size you want) or TAP Plastics, who I deal with quite a bit. Just keep the stabilizer off the hone so it doesn't force the heel up and toe down.

If the tip of the toe or heel do not get a good bevel, no big deal. You can get by just fine without that last tiny bit of blade. In fact, without the absolute point of the toe being sharp, you will cut yourself less. The point is what cuts the unwary newbie the most. The central 95% of the blade is where you absolutely need a good bevel. I never worry about the last 1/8" or so of toe, myself. Desperately attempting at all costs to get the toe sharp can cause you to use too much roll in your rolling x stroke, making the problem worse instead of better due to excessive hone wear from the toe. Or heel. Whatevah. The rolling x stroke is a valuable and even necessary tool, but it can be and often is overdone.

If you just WANT the toe to be sharp, you have to use a slight roll when honing. Lift the shank UP a tiny bit to contact the toe. Vice versa for the heel but with a stock GD it is not an issue because the stabilizer pretty much prevents proper honing of the heel anyway. Best way I have found is to rock the hone side to side slightly as you hone, whether you are using x strokes, half strokes, circles, whatever. Always hone in hand for best results. A LOT of newbie mistakes are made because of honing with the hone resting on a bench or other fixed object. The rest are mostly a result of not sticking with getting the bevel set until it is set. The beauty of the burr method is you get it first time and by getting the burr on each side in turn, you are also verifying that you have achieved a complete bevel, that only needs to have the burr removed to be ready for the progression. No burr, not done. Period. Keep going until you get it. No guesswork. No "oughter be done by now" or "Maybe just another few thousand laps on the coticule" crap. The thread explains the whole thing.

 

[paintflinger]

I was just using the stropping belt not grinding. Just experimenting - no damage
done. It would actually work if the belt could be kept flat but too much flex creates convex bevel.

Fair enough, I just wasn't sure if you were actually trying to sharpen things with the Crox on the leather. The general consensus is that it really only needs a 5-10 laps to do what it does. Motorizing it seems like the fast track to killing the edge.

If you want to pay for the shipping, I'll happily hone your razor up for you.

 

[steveclarkus]

I think you mean convex. A concave bevel would actually be pretty cool I think.

The bevel setting thread will absolutely without a doubt give you a good bevel first attempt if you just follow directions. All you need is a 12"x3"x3/4" piece of acrylic for a plate, and some red resin type wet/dry sandpaper. And 3M spray adhesive. For a nice vintage, start with 1000 grit. For a GD or similar, start with 220 grit, get it nearly there, then some 400 to 600 grit action, and then raise the burr with 1000 grit. Whichever way you go, clear the burr with ordinary alternating x strokes and you should have a great bevel. Get the acrylic from ebay vendor bhent (contact him and he will put up a listing for the size you want) or TAP Plastics, who I deal with quite a bit. Just keep the stabilizer off the hone so it doesn't force the heel up and toe down.

If the tip of the toe or heel do not get a good bevel, no big deal. You can get by just fine without that last tiny bit of blade. In fact, without the absolute point of the toe being sharp, you will cut yourself less. The point is what cuts the unwary newbie the most. The central 95% of the blade is where you absolutely need a good bevel. I never worry about the last 1/8" or so of toe, myself. Desperately attempting at all costs to get the toe sharp can cause you to use too much roll in your rolling x stroke, making the problem worse instead of better due to excessive hone wear from the toe. Or heel. Whatevah. The rolling x stroke is a valuable and even necessary tool, but it can be and often is overdone.

If you just WANT the toe to be sharp, you have to use a slight roll when honing. Lift the shank UP a tiny bit to contact the toe. Vice versa for the heel but with a stock GD it is not an issue because the stabilizer pretty much prevents proper honing of the heel anyway. Best way I have found is to rock the hone side to side slightly as you hone, whether you are using x strokes, half strokes, circles, whatever. Always hone in hand for best results. A LOT of newbie mistakes are made because of honing with the hone resting on a bench or other fixed object. The rest are mostly a result of not sticking with getting the bevel set until it is set. The beauty of the burr method is you get it first time and by getting the burr on each side in turn, you are also verifying that you have achieved a complete bevel, that only needs to have the burr removed to be ready for the progression. No burr, not done. Period. Keep going until you get it. No guesswork. No "oughter be done by now" or "Maybe just another few thousand laps on the coticule" crap. The thread explains the whole thing.

Thanks Slash. I actually got the GD “shave ready” today. How shave ready I won’t know till tomorrow. Fresh out of beard today. I’m sure it won’t be particularly comfortable but it was a big win. I use the burr method in knives and used it on the razor after reading one of your posts yesterday. I still haven’t achieved successful HHT on a 1K stone but I see it can be done now. I have a 400 grit King I loaned to my son I’ll pick up this weekend. That would have saved a lot of time. The other stones I have are a 3K/8K combo, a 12K Naniwa and a Chinese 12K I bought several years back. The Chinese 12K feels downright sexy. I did mean “convex” not “concave”. Also, I started hand holding stones today when I realized I could keep the blade flat on the stone with one hand. Anyway, to make a long story short, the posts on setting a bevel were a huge help. I was being much too timid. When I get my razor back from Larry, I’ll have a better idea of my target. Can’t wait to get it under the scope to see what a pro finish looks like. Thanks again. You guys are great.

Steve

 

[Slash McCoy]

No, you won't get HHT perfformance off a 1k. It will catch but not pop except under extreme duress LOL! Best you can hope for is clean shave arm hair in one swipe. Shaving off 1k has been done, but as a stunt shave lol. Your Naniwa 12k can put a respectable finish, after the two midrange stones. Don't bother with the C12k. It is really really slow and might actually act coarser (or finer) than 12k. It is a natural stone so grit rating can only be approximate equivelant. The C12k is worth keeping as a curiousity and something to occupy idle hands looking for an experiment. Or if you lose or break your Nanny. See the pasted balsa thread for what to do when you can max out the Naniwa 12k.

Congratulations on seeing the light and finding the way. You will be shaving on your own edges in no time.

 

[steveclarkus]

Fair enough, I just wasn't sure if you were actually trying to sharpen things with the Crox on the leather. The general consensus is that it really only needs a 5-10 laps to do what it does. Motorizing it seems like the fast track to killing the edge.

If you want to pay for the shipping, I'll happily hone your razor up for you.

I use CrOx on the linen strop but not leather. I have leather on a paddle but the leather has never felt good so I don’t use it. The linen works well. I was curious as to what a motorized strop would do but there was too much flex and it was difficult to keep steady. The machine works wonders on knives though. Not bad in finishing lawn mower blades either. Not so much with razors. I posted my today’s efforts in a reply to Slash so that is there for your reading pleasure. I’m making progress and looking forward to getting my ancient Boker back from Whipped Dog so I can see what I’m shooting for. Thanks for the offer to hone. Do you hone semi-pro?

Steve