British Aristocrat In Unique Case: Which model number is this?

[thekinge]

I purchased this British Aristocrat set a couple of weeks ago from ebay UK, but given my limited knowledge of British Aristocrats, I'm unable to ID the specific model number of this set and I could not see any matching sets in mr-razor (Achim) site. I would much appreaciate if the experts around here can help!

The razor looks exactly like the Aristocrat #66 / Aristocrat #22. Like the #66, it is heavy, Rhodium plated, has end caps and no center bar wings. The words under the center bar shows "patent pending" and under the head is the usual diamand Gillette logo and "Made in England". The knurling on the handle also matches very closely with the Aristocrat #66:





The case is a leather covered metal case and the interior is burgundy colored and exactly like the #21 case in Achim's site. The exterior leatherette is also burgundy colored, although it is a blackish burgundy or burgundy that probably turned blackish over time:






The blades are a mixed bag since there are two British Blue blades & two German Blue blades respectively. The German blades have patent numbers on one side and then the number "451" on the other side. The British blades have the code E2 on one side and "Patent pending" on the other side.


I would have considered this a mismatched set, but the blue & white insert in the interior of the case sits perfectly flush as you can see in the pictures. What British Aristocrat is this? Look forward to your responses!

 

[thekinge]

Wow, 60+ views and no responses! This set must have gotten everyone stumped, or its a complete mismatch

 

[marcel]

Could you take a photo of the bottom plate of the head? These came with either a solid baseplate, like in an Aristocrat #16, or a pressed baseplate, like an Aristocrat #66.
Without knowing the type of baseplate, it's hard to pinpoint the exact type.

 

[Mark1966]

Yeah, got me stumped - but my mind is mush at the moment!

 

[swamps]

could it be a mismatch maybe or could it be that someone back then with a bit of money to spend wanted the razor to come in a case that was different to all the others like you i have a #15 thats a little different than most...

 

[creamgravy]

^ Very nice, so many different box configurations.

thekinge: Looks legit to me. The brass box isn't nickel plated, that would suggest it came covered from the factory.

They were probably using up the last of those cases in the early 50s. (Brass is total overkill for a box )

 

[alex2363]

The England blade is 1934.....the case looks like it has a faded outside line

 

[Buzz_Kill]

That looks like the #16 which I am just dying to get my hands on, but I don't know enough to say for sure.

 

[MacDaddy]

Assuming for a moment that the case and razor do go together, I'll go out on a fairly long limb and take a guess that what you've got there would have been a late No. 20 set -- say 1950 give or take. We know from Achim's scan of a 1948 price list that Gillette had continued the No. 15 set with the older-style guard-bar Aristocrat in a case with the integrated blade sleeve/razor rest. That same sheet also mentions that, though not pictured, the No. 20 was still available at that point, so it's probably safe to assume that they transitioned that case to have the same interior. (See cropped portion below.)

Then the newer style Aristocrats appear to have started showing up in 1949, like the ad below showing the No. 22 set or the No. 22 set of Achim's, so it would seem perfectly reasonable to me that they might have tapered the No. 20 set out using the newer style razor to clear out a supply of old cases.

We're still left with the somewhat unusual color of the case, but with Swamps's very odd No. 15 set there, it seems like there might be some precedent for it. Frankly, Swamps, yours is even more puzzling to me.... If it weren't for the box you've got there I'd be very tempted to guess that your set was actually a No. 19, the case being leather covered and the pieces being gold plated.

 

[mr-razor]

and we have the OC #14 in a leather case, why not a later #14?

 

[MacDaddy]

and we have the OC #14 in a leather case, why not a later #14?

Hmm... I hadn't considered that, but I suppose it's possible. Aside from the color, though, Dhilip's case looks just like what I would expect a No. 20 to look like after the switch to the hinged blade sleeve/razor rest.

The No. 14 struck me more as a set that Gillette threw together to use up old NEW DeLuxe cases after the OC TTO Aristocrat came out. Do we have any other evidence that Gillette might have carried on with the No. 14 beyond that switchover period?

I really need to find some good online resources for British periodicals...

 

[the beav]

Assuming that the set goes together, my first thought when I saw this thread was that it was a post-war Aristocrat in a left-over pre-war case. The ad for the leather-cased #15 might support that.

It might be good if the OP went back to ebay to see if the seller was a possibly a razor collector or not (under see other items). That might tell us something.

 

[MacDaddy]

I'm going to correct myself a bit here. For some reason I had it in my head that the older No. 15s had blade cases, but that's not right. They've always had that combination blade sleeve/razor rest thing, and for the life of me I can't figure why I thought otherwise.

 

[ERVARGASNY]

Love that case, looks like my No.20 outer case except its a little different texture on the leather,

I still dare to say that the No.19 And No. 20 are Two Different Color cases, Just wait till we go to a show and meet up one of these day's ill show you Sorry i got of topic there / Porter knows what im talking about

Thekinge, you did good, Excellent Find for sure, Bravo well done

 

[ERVARGASNY]

I'm going to correct myself a bit here. For some reason I had it in my head that the older No. 15s had blade cases, but that's not right. They've always had that combination blade sleeve/razor rest thing, and for the life of me I can't figure why I thought otherwise.

Information Overload ? It Happens )

 

[alex2363]

sooooo what is it?

 

[alex2363]

Hmm... I hadn't considered that, but I suppose it's possible. Aside from the color, though, Dhilip's case looks just like what I would expect a No. 20 to look like after the switch to the hinged blade sleeve/razor rest.

The No. 14 struck me more as a set that Gillette threw together to use up old NEW DeLuxe cases after the OC TTO Aristocrat came out. Do we have any other evidence that Gillette might have carried on with the No. 14 beyond that switchover period?

I really need to find some good online resources for British periodicals...

Please link me when and if you find some.

 

[thekinge]

Could you take a photo of the bottom plate of the head? These came with either a solid baseplate, like in an Aristocrat #16, or a pressed baseplate, like an Aristocrat #66.
Without knowing the type of baseplate, it's hard to pinpoint the exact type.

That looks like the #16 which I am just dying to get my hands on, but I don't know enough to say for sure.

It does not have a raised baseplate like the Aristocrat #16, but rather it looks and feels exactly like the #22 / #66 as mentioned in my original post. Here are some pictures with my #66 razor (on the left) and this unknown aristocrat (on the right) side by side:

 

[thekinge]

could it be a mismatch maybe or could it be that someone back then with a bit of money to spend wanted the razor to come in a case that was different to all the others like you i have a #15 thats a little different than most...

Say, that's a very unique and very nice set!

 

[thekinge]

Porter, Achim & Alex,

Thanks for your post! Like Alex highlighted, the case seems to have a border line on the top that has faded over the years. I do not know if this could be a late #14 set as the case and the razor do not match with my set. However, Porter's thesis that this could be a left over case from early years and they put the new #22 razor in it to clear out the old cases seems logical, with only one catch: the case, which appears to be very uniquely burgundy colored and with the burgundy interior.

The England blade is 1934.....the case looks like it has a faded outside line

Alex, the blade would date to second quarter of 1947, would it not?

Edit: I noticed something interesing while taking side by side pictures of my #66 and this unknown aristocrat (posted above). The head of the unknown aristocrat is duller than the head of the #66, as in nickel plating. Granted, I've yet to clean up the unknown aristocrat razor and it may be worn Rhodium plating in the head of the unknown aristocrat, but when seen side by side with the #66, there is a clear difference in the plating of the razor heads; the plating in the handles match up and is clearly Rhodium.