Bread making

[Altreac]

Looks good! I see some nice shine on that crumb shot -- usually that means a long slow fermentation and a hot bake, which is ideal for getting the most flavour out of the ingredients. How's it taste?

The habit we've gotten into here is to regularly make a bread that we both like, so as not to run out of it. Then since I'm the main baker at the moment I often also fire up some other formula that looks interesting to me. Could be focaccia, some kind of flatbread, a rye or other alternative grain, something with inclusions, or a sweet bread.

O.H.

Hrm. Being new to this a proper technical description will be hard for me.

I think the crumb came out well enough for a first time, but it was under seasoned.

Lol. I posted the crumb so someone could help me!

So I feel like I activated my yeast well. I've got good temp control with probes and a PID kettle... It's definitely active and fresh.

It was a simple recipe though, so I think if I used something more complex the flavour would be better.

It came out fluffy. But I think I used too low a temp for too long. I wanna turn it up 25° or so and try again.

Despite being butter brushed after, the crust was harder than I anticipated. That's what made me think it's in too low, too long.

But all in all? For a first go... Definitely edible!

 

[catfish1969]

Totally new to breadmaking. This is my very first attempt. (I study hard).

View attachment 1803414

I grew up cooking and baking, so I know how to follow a recipe... But any/all feedback would be appreciated.

Practice makes perfect! The only down-side is an added pound or few. Looks good!!!

 

[Old Hippie]

Hrm. Being new to this a proper technical description will be hard for me.

We'll figure it out. Bread's a lot like shaving; there are so many variables to track. Or you can take a really simple approach to it.

I think the crumb came out well enough for a first time, but it was under seasoned.

How do you mean? Did it feel like you didn't put enough salt in? I've forgotten to add the salt before. Dang, that's bland. But there is a Tuscan bread that has no salt, usually it's eaten with dishes that have a more salty profile.

So I feel like I activated my yeast well. I've got good temp control with probes and a PID kettle... It's definitely active and fresh.

If you're using yeast, you can use instant yeast and it won't need (but does benefit from) activating. When I do yeast breads I have lately started activating and using traditional yeast. I haven't gotten real deep in the sensories yet but there seems to be a positive difference. Sourdough breads benefit from getting the culture cranked up the night before.

It was a simple recipe though, so I think if I used something more complex the flavour would be better.

There are lots of little tricks to get flavour out of flour. One is the overnight cold retard. Once the bread is through bulk fermentation (first rise) put it in a covered nonreactive pot and stick in the fridge overnight. Slow fermentation gives the starches time to unwind, which releases sugars for the yeast to eat once it warms back up, and also leaves more sugar in the dough to enhance browning and taste. Gluten development is enhanced as well. Let it sit out for an hour or so next day, then proceed with shaping and panning. The sourdough boule I make goes straight from fridge to oven, and generates a pretty good spring in the steam cycle.

It came out fluffy. But I think I used too low a temp for too long. I wanna turn it up 25° or so and try again.

If it's in a loaf pan I'd say between 350F and 400F is where you want to be. Depends a bit on hydration. As a boule or batard (round or oblong free standing loaf) you could probably push it higher. The sourdough boule I make once or twice a week bakes at 475F and other formulas go up to 525F. On the other hand, a 100 per cent rye (including the sourdough culture) will thrive at 350F for slow bake if I do an overnight retard on the dough. Otherwise it needs three hours at 250F.

But all in all? For a first go... Definitely edible!

That's the name of the game!

O.H.

 

[Altreac]

We'll figure it out. Bread's a lot like shaving; there are so many variables to track. Or you can take a really simple approach to it.



How do you mean? Did it feel like you didn't put enough salt in? I've forgotten to add the salt before. Dang, that's bland. But there is a Tuscan bread that has no salt, usually it's eaten with dishes that have a more salty profile.



If you're using yeast, you can use instant yeast and it won't need (but does benefit from) activating. When I do yeast breads I have lately started activating and using traditional yeast. I haven't gotten real deep in the sensories yet but there seems to be a positive difference. Sourdough breads benefit from getting the culture cranked up the night before.



There are lots of little tricks to get flavour out of flour. One is the overnight cold retard. Once the bread is through bulk fermentation (first rise) put it in a covered nonreactive pot and stick in the fridge overnight. Slow fermentation gives the starches time to unwind, which releases sugars for the yeast to eat once it warms back up, and also leaves more sugar in the dough to enhance browning and taste. Gluten development is enhanced as well. Let it sit out for an hour or so next day, then proceed with shaping and panning. The sourdough boule I make goes straight from fridge to oven, and generates a pretty good spring in the steam cycle.



If it's in a loaf pan I'd say between 350F and 400F is where you want to be. Depends a bit on hydration. As a boule or batard (round or oblong free standing loaf) you could probably push it higher. The sourdough boule I make once or twice a week bakes at 475F and other formulas go up to 525F. On the other hand, a 100 per cent rye (including the sourdough culture) will thrive at 350F for slow bake if I do an overnight retard on the dough. Otherwise it needs three hours at 250F.



That's the name of the game!

O.H.

That's a bunch to decompress. Ok. Lemme try here.

I would say yes, I didn't put in enough salt. I'm not one to exchange this or that in recipes unless I don't have something. So I only had salted butter and reduced the salt cause the recipe called for unsalted butter. I think I'll still use salted butter, cause I don't really use unsalted often, and up the salt. I don't wanna stock both butters if I don't have to.

I had no issues using dry active vs instant. I'm on pension/long term disability, so I've got the time to do whatever. Ex military. Medical release. I haven't used yeast before that attempt, but I just felt 'doing in proper' was the way to go, given time. But I know nothing about yeast. So... Don't think I know what I'm talking about yet!

I'll check into the overnight ferment.

I ran 350f for this batch. And over the time I the recipe cause there wasn't the colour I was looking for. I think 375f will do me. And I let it keep preheating for 10 minutes after it came to temp for a bit of thermal stability.

Thanks for the pointers!

 

[Old Hippie]

That's a bunch to decompress. Ok. Lemme try here.

You're doing fine. This is good!

So I only had salted butter and reduced the salt cause the recipe called for unsalted butter.

This is where science and "sensories" sometimes diverge. I make our butter, and I add a bit of salt to it (1/4 tsp. to the butter yield from one quart of cream). Otherwise it's pretty bland to me. At that rate I'm convinced that the slight additional amount of salt is insignificant. If I noticed problems with the rise from salt inhibiting the yeast I'd rethink that, but no problems. I don't use added oils in our regular bread (slow-fermented sourdough) but I do use a bit in recipes that need a bit more flavour added because it's only going to get two warm rises before it hits the oven.

Alongside today's sourdough boule I'm also making a buttermilk oatmeal bread. I went off the path from the original recipe and put the buttermilk and oats together as a soaker last night. That will unwind some of the starch in the oats and activate some of the enzymes, and also give my friendly gang of lactobacilli something to munch on once I get the dough together.

I had no issues using dry active vs instant. I'm on pension/long term disability, so I've got the time to do whatever. Ex military. Medical release. I haven't used yeast before that attempt, but I just felt 'doing in proper' was the way to go, given time. But I know nothing about yeast. So... Don't think I know what I'm talking about yet!

I'm enjoying your journey; you should be, too. What I'm enjoying is that you are exploring and noticing things and asking questions. Some of your questions I think I can answer, which gives me the opportunity to reflect on what I do and ask myself why it's important. So you're helping me make better bread, too.

I'll check into the overnight ferment.

A good reference is The Bread Baker's Apprentice by Peter Reinhart. There are two editions, both are good but the second edition is better. I hear good things about Ken Forkish's book, too, but it's not on my shelf yet. A good ref for yeast breads (although it's a bit behind some of the more recent developments in baking) is Rose Levy Beranbaum's The Bread Bible. It's funny that there are about six different books all called The Bread Bible so obviously there are some interdenominational differences. Make sure you know which one you're getting.

I ran 350f for this batch. And over the time I the recipe cause there wasn't the colour I was looking for. I think 375f will do me. And I let it keep preheating for 10 minutes after it came to temp for a bit of thermal stability.

Good plan. I often also use a 15x15 inch chunk of 1/4 inch steel plate on the rack. That sucker soaks up a lot of heat even at 350, and dumps it into the loaf quicker than air contact does. Lots of "oven spring." I thought about getting a plate of 1/2 inch steel, which I hear is like putting a bomb under the bread, but I'm happy where I am. So's my back, when I have to pull that thing out and slide it into the oven. At higher oven temps I'll give it a good long preheat and soak, usually around 45 minutes (which many baking books will say is a good start but an hour is better...). Works for me.

Another trick is to preheat the oven about 50 degrees higher than your target. You'll lose a lot of heat when you open the door, so this puts more in to lose. Put in the pans, turn down the oven.

O.H.

 

[La Malice]

You can use that tray for Bahn Mi if it's oven safe.

Oh it is being used for bread making

 

[La Malice]

Alright it was about time I commit to do a loaf.

It was rocky to say the least, not sure if I managed to weight the wrong amount of flour or what but I had a bot of a mess on my hand at first, added more during the stretch and fold stage.

Fed the beast yesterday morning, had no issue waking up, made the levain last night and baked it today.

 

[Chef455]

Bread. Sigh. Something so humble completely humbles me. I am a terrible baker.

 

[Doc Dan]

Bread. Sigh. Something so humble completely humbles me. I am a terrible baker.

Since we no longer have an oven since we sold our house, I use a bread maker most of the time. I do have an air fryer that I use for biscuits and etc, but I can't bake a whole loaf of bread in it. I have a Breville bread maker, but there are many that are highly rated and make very good bread. I don't use mixes...at all.

 

[Old Hippie]

It was rocky to say the least, not sure if I managed to weight the wrong amount of flour or what but I had a bot of a mess on my hand at first, added more during the stretch and fold stage.

View attachment 1805156

Wow. Serious hydration! Good job.

O.H.

 

[Old Hippie]

Today is two breads. One is an experiment, a sourdough buttermilk oatmeal bread. I started with a recipe that wasn't sourdough, and made some informed decisions. Older recipe; one of the most important "ingredients" I added was time. Time for a longer rise, time for a soaker to work on the grains, cold retard to open up the sugars. Now it's waking up again and shortly I'll bake it. It has some added sweetener in it, so between that and the buttermilk it'll only need about a 350F oven.

Then I can raise the heat for the usual sourdough boule. Mrs. Hippie wants to make sandwiches for lunch, and at the moment all we have in the house is potential bread.

O.H.

 

[Old Hippie]

Thing One: sourdough buttermilk oat bread...



Got a nice spring in the steam phase. A fair bit of honey in the dough, plus buttermilk, and it browned up quickly.

Now pumping up the oven to 475 for the white sourdough boule...

O.H.

 

[Old Hippie]

...and Thing Two: White sourdough boule...



...and the crumb shot of the oatmeal bread. It's a bit dense but pretty good for an old-style recipe that got hacked into something a little more modern! The white is just out of the oven. Didn't get quite the spring I usually do, though close. Whatever; not a problem. It'll taste fine. It's Mrs. Hippie's favourite bread, and making it regularly is the ticket I buy so I can play in the kitchen.

O.H.

 

[La Malice]

Wow. Serious hydration! Good job.

O.H.

if only the whole loaf looked liked this ...

 

[catfish1969]

A basic whole wheat recipe with buttermilk replacing 2 cups of the water and honey replacing the sugar.

Not my best effort, but not bad for a rare departure from the original recipe...

 

[catfish1969]

Whole wheat cinnamon raisin bread-a slice a day bridges the gap between breakfast and lunch while at work.

Taste test to follow after a few minutes of cooling...

 

[Doc Dan]

Whole wheat cinnamon raisin bread-a slice a day bridges the gap between breakfast and lunch while at work.

Taste test to follow after a few minutes of cooling...

View attachment 1806047

I haven't made any of that for a year or more. I'm going to make some in the morning!

 

[ErkRusselReserve]

Made some no/low carb, no yeast biscuits today. 50/50 Wheat Gluten/Oat Fiber along with some baking power, salt, olive oil and water. Not bad, not too dense and real fast. The next round will be 2 to 1 Oat Fiber to Gluten, as I think the Gluten is strong enough to dilute more.

 

[La Malice]

Second attempt. Still really wet dough. Same recipe as last week but I did not add any floor to counteract the messy wet mess. Unlike last week it did not created a heavy chewy middle, this is progress ish. I'll look around for a different recipe and take it from there

Here is the recipe, all the ingredient are measure by weight, not volume

1. Leaven

•100g room temp water (78 F/25 C) or 1/2 cup
•25g or 1 TBSP ripe sourdough starter
•100g or 1 cup all purpose flour (11.7% protein)

2. Mix the Dough

•310g water (92 f / 33 C) or 1 1/4 cup
•200g or about 1 cup leaven or (from build stage above. 25g will be left over to propagate your future sourdough starter)
•450g or 3 1/4 cup bread flour (11.7% protein)
•12g or 2 tsp salt

 

[Old Hippie]

Second attempt. Still really wet dough.

You're not too far off the recipe for the white boule I make regularly; just pulled one, as a matter of fact. For comparison, here it is (from Sourdough by Science by Karyn Newman):

375 g flour
235 g water, warmed slightly
150 g active sourdough culture
9 g salt, reserved

Stir the sourdough culture into the water. Pour the mixture into the flour and mix until all the flour is incorporated. Cover and autolyze 30 minutes. Add salt, mix well. Cover and let sit 15 minutes. Stretch and fold. Do that three times. After last stretch and fold, cover and let rise until doubled.

Turn out on a water misted counter and give it a letter fold, then cover for 15 minutes to relax (you and the dough). Uncover, smooth flour on top, flip the ball. Working around the ball, pull up the skin and fold over the top (bottom) of the loaf. Do this until the skin is well tightened. If it starts tearing, you're done. Flip the ball right side up, and use a bench scraper to pull the ball toward you and in other directions to further tighten the skin. Let it sit seam side down while you prepare a bowl for it. I use a bowl lined with a couple of tea towels, then dusted with rice flour.

Gently place the boule top-down in the bowl, then dust additional rice flour around the sides. Cover the bowl with parchment and a lid, and put it in the fridge overnight. Next morning, put a rack in the centre of the oven with a baking steel or stone on it. Set the oven to 475F and let it soak for 45 minutes to an hour.

Take the lid off the bowl of dough but leave the parchment. Put a small cookie sheet upside down over the parchment and carefully flip the whole works over. Remove the bowl and towels. I brush off the rice flour with a pastry brush. Then I pull out my Parker shavette with a half Feather blade in it and score the loaf. Trim the parchment so it's not overhanging the edges of the pan. Mist the loaf well with water, then mist the inside of a large stainless bowl that will fit over the loaf but not overhang the edges of the pan.

Set the pan carefully into the oven on the steel. Bake for 20 minutes, then remove the bowl and bake a further 15 minutes or until the crust is caramelized to your liking.

I prefer to bake it on a small cookie sheet. I used to put it straight on the steel or stone but the bottoms always got doner than I liked. Using the cookie sheet slows down the bottom bake just enough to get a nice dark brown without being black.

O.H.