Bill's latest pistol project

[Mhinagoya]

Yes, it has been a while, but I've been busy.

Last year, I saw that SARCO had some new Commander size Para frames for sale at a bargain basement price, so I bought one. I kept thinking how good the price was, so a couple of weeks later, I bought another.
They looked like this when they arrived

One frame had the ejector installed and one didn't. Both had the plunger tube installed. Other than that, they were just bare frames.
Not realizing they were melonited, I began to put a pistol together in 45 ACP. Using diamond paste, I buffed the frame, cut it for a bobtail mainspring housing, and went through the ritual of preparing it for hot bluing. I finished the build, test fired it, then learned that while one can remove the surface finish from melonite, it won't blue.
The pistol came out rather nice and is surprisingly accurate.

With the bobtail and thin grips, it should be a very nice carry piece. It has yet to jam or have any problems in use.
Someone here on the forum kept talking about a 10mm Commander, and put a bug in my ear, so the more I thought about it, the more I wanted one.
After months of gathering and sourcing parts, it began to come together and I did the final assembly today. Para frame, Rock Island slide, Ed Brown grip safety, Nighthawk mainspring housing, etc.

I liked the two tone of the first pistol, so I inverted the pattern and used polished stainless hammer, slide stop, thumb safety, grip safety, and mainspring housing.
Both pistols, side by side. The 45 on the left and the 10 on the right.

If the weather cooperates, I will have the new 10 at the range on Monday.

Bill.

 

[nortac]

Superb work!! So did you bob the frame on the .45, or did it come bobbed already?

 

[Mhinagoya]

Superb work!! So did you bob the frame on the .45, or did it come bobbed already?

Thank you for the kind words. I bobbed the frame.
This was my first bobtail job.

It is laying next to my keyboard at the moment, and it has been a learning experience. EVERYTHING is out of spec. Yes, it runs flawlessly and is accurate, but nothing is what it should be or where it should be. I found this when I went to bobtail it some ten or fifteen years ago. The original mainspring housing retaining pin hole was off, so the mainspring housing didn't sit flush with the bottom of the pistol. When I bobtailed it, I put the new hole where it should be and when I trimmed the frame, half the original hole remained. I filled it with nickle brazing rod which was a very good match to the stainless. When I went to re-install the grip safety, I had a gap between the safety and mainspring housing I could throw a cat through. After scratching my head for a few hours, I decided to silver solder a stainless washer to the bottom of the grip safety, then profile (with a file) and polish to match. It closed the gap very nicely and is nearly impossible to detect (you need a magnifying glass and good light).
Ok, everything is working and looks right, but the barrel is riding the link. No surprise. I let this go for years and finally decided to correct it with a new barrel and I have been working on this for the last couple of weeks. With a hard fit barrel, only a few thousands needed to be trimmed from the lower lugs to get a solid lockup. Now, I am having issues with it going in to battery and it isn't barrel timing, so yet another puzzle surfaces.

In other words, these guns aren't Glocks, but I absolutely love working on them.

Bill

 

[Rob72]

Very, very, nice!

 

[Mhinagoya]

A couple of things I forgot to mention.

For any who are considering such a build (I don't recommend it):

These frames are melonited so if you grind on them (blending a grip safety for instance) you have no way of restoring the finish.

You will have to use a 9mm/40S&W/10mm ejector. It will be way too long and you will have to trim it or you won't be able to eject an unfired round. You won't even be able to pull the slide back far enough to lock it with the slide stop.

Para used a proprietary grip safety and they are gone. An Ed Brown safety can be made to work, but tricks are involved (PM me if you need help with this)

Para also used a proprietary length sear spring. It is a little longer than standard. I was able to go through my stack of springs and find one that was just enough longer that it fit. I understand that a standard length spring will work, but it can be a bit 'iffy'. I believe I read somewhere that SARCO had the correct springs in stock, but I have no personal experience with them (the springs, not SARCO).

The mag release will sit proud of the right side of the frame slightly. If you want it absolutely flush, you will be filing it down and re-finishing.

Building a 1911 from unrelated (brand) parts is NOT like assembling tinker toys. If you don't know what you are doing, it's about to get expensive. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from doing this, just want you to have realistic expectations.

Bill.

 

[Rob72]

A couple of things I forgot to mention.

For any who are considering such a build (I don't recommend it):

These frames are melonited so if you grind on them (blending a grip safety for instance) you have no way of restoring the finish.

You will have to use a 9mm/40S&W/10mm ejector. It will be way too long and you will have to trim it or you won't be able to eject an unfired round. You won't even be able to pull the slide back far enough to lock it with the slide stop.

Para used a proprietary grip safety and they are gone. An Ed Brown safety can be made to work, but tricks are involved (PM me if you need help with this)

Para also used a proprietary length sear spring. It is a little longer than standard. I was able to go through my stack of springs and find one that was just enough longer that it fit. I understand that a standard length spring will work, but it can be a bit 'iffy'. I believe I read somewhere that SARCO had the correct springs in stock, but I have no personal experience with them (the springs, not SARCO).

The mag release will sit proud of the right side of the frame slightly. If you want it absolutely flush, you will be filing it down and re-finishing.

Building a 1911 from unrelated (brand) parts is NOT like assembling tinker toys. If you don't know what you are doing, it's about to get expensive. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from doing this, just want you to have realistic expectations.

Bill.

But! I'll finally have a $2800 1911!
Yes, it is a learning experience & I've never worked on a Para model.

 

[Mhinagoya]

But! I'll finally have a $2800 1911!
Yes, it is a learning experience & I've never worked on a Para model.

Tell me about it. I could have bought a couple 1911s for what I have in one of my "home made" guns and I have several home made 1911s.

I do it because I genuinely enjoy it. The money is spent for entertainment and personal enjoyment. The gun is secondary.

Bill.

 

[Mhinagoya]

I took three 1911s (45, Super, and the new 10) to the range with me on Wednesday and a bunch of loaded magazines.
I shot the 10 and it ran flawlessly. I did have 2 three point jams with the 45 (first ever with this gun) and both were with Remington UMC factory loads. Odd.

Now that I have the 4.25" 10, I can't quite figure out what it is good for. Recoil with 165 grain bullets is more than a 45, but tolerable. With 180 grain bullets, the recoil becomes unpleasant. This is not a gun I will take to the range and run 100 rounds through just for fun. It beats me up too much to do that. While it is a good size for carry, recovery time between shots is excessive. The 45 or Super would be a much better choice in this regard. It is a nice pistol. It has a 3lb 7oz trigger and I am going to leave it there. A super light trigger in a 10 probably wouldn't be a good idea.

I had fun building it. Any small annoyances (a barely perceptible hitch when racking the slide) disappeared somewhere during the second or third magazine. The controls are positive and crisp without being too heavy. Post firing disassembly, cleaning, and inspection revealed nothing unusual.

Perhaps I should fit a 40 S&W Barrel. Perhaps not. I have fit both barrels to my 5" 10mm and can't come up with a reason to do it to this one.

I was looking at a 9X25 Dillon and this has me thinking otherwise because it raises the same question. Why?

Other than hunting, just what is the 10mm's mission? It seems grossly excessive for self defense and there is way too much recoil for paper punching or tin can ventilating.

Bill.

 

[Rob72]

I took three 1911s (45, Super, and the new 10) to the range with me on Wednesday and a bunch of loaded magazines.
I shot the 10 and it ran flawlessly. I did have 2 three point jams with the 45 (first ever with this gun) and both were with Remington UMC factory loads. Odd.

Now that I have the 4.25" 10, I can't quite figure out what it is good for. Recoil with 165 grain bullets is more than a 45, but tolerable. With 180 grain bullets, the recoil becomes unpleasant. This is not a gun I will take to the range and run 100 rounds through just for fun. It beats me up too much to do that. While it is a good size for carry, recovery time between shots is excessive. The 45 or Super would be a much better choice in this regard. It is a nice pistol. It has a 3lb 7oz trigger and I am going to leave it there. A super light trigger in a 10 probably wouldn't be a good idea.

I had fun building it. Any small annoyances (a barely perceptible hitch when racking the slide) disappeared somewhere during the second or third magazine. The controls are positive and crisp without being too heavy. Post firing disassembly, cleaning, and inspection revealed nothing unusual.

Perhaps I should fit a 40 S&W Barrel. Perhaps not. I have fit both barrels to my 5" 10mm and can't come up with a reason to do it to this one.

I was looking at a 9X25 Dillon and this has me thinking otherwise because it raises the same question. Why?

Other than hunting, just what is the 10mm's mission? It seems grossly excessive for self defense and there is way too much recoil for paper punching or tin can ventilating.

Bill.

Mag-na-port!

 

[Mhinagoya]

Mag-na-port!

I'm sitting here laughing.
Seriously though, just what is the intended use for this cartridge? I have three pistols in 10mm and have no earthly idea what to do with them.
To be brutally honest, I love punching paper with a 40 or a 45, as they leave big holes that are easy to see. That being said, there is a special place in my heart for the 38 Super. It's a classy cartridge and when loaded to its potential, is very flat shooting with a high terminal velocity. Very little muzzle flip, too.
I have fourteen 1911 pistols and if you add in the "switch barrel" calibers, I have them in 9mm, 10mm, 9X23, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, 38 Super, and 22 TCM. The 22 TCM and the 10mm cartridges leave me scratching my head.

Bill

 

[nortac]

No LAR Grizzly in .45 automag?

 

[OkieStubble]

No LAR Grizzly in .45 automag?

I have shot one of these, so much fun! The fireball at night was amazing!

 

[Rob72]

I'm sitting here laughing.
Seriously though, just what is the intended use for this cartridge? I have three pistols in 10mm and have no earthly idea what to do with them.
To be brutally honest, I love punching paper with a 40 or a 45, as they leave big holes that are easy to see. That being said, there is a special place in my heart for the 38 Super. It's a classy cartridge and when loaded to its potential, is very flat shooting with a high terminal velocity. Very little muzzle flip, too.
I have fourteen 1911 pistols and if you add in the "switch barrel" calibers, I have them in 9mm, 10mm, 9X23, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, 38 Super, and 22 TCM. The 22 TCM and the 10mm cartridges leave me scratching my head.

Bill

Seriously, I'm not going to spend the time fully researching, but as I recall there was desire 1) for a powerful semi-auto hunting cartridge that 2) was also effective consistently penetrating modest levels of urban cover, e.g., the Miami Matix-Platt shootout.

It is a great cartridge, but not one I ever invested in, and definitely one that would work well with porting _and_ a comp.

It would not be at all hard to ream the Strike Circle Comp another 1.5 mm to work. Get your baby ported too, and run a mainspring at the lower end of function, and that would be a real show stopper!

 

[Rob72]

...go over to the 9mm load for winter clothing thread and there ya' go.

 

[Mhinagoya]

...go over to the 9mm load for winter clothing thread and there ya' go.

I will. In the mean time, I will choose to be content with the autoloaders I have. Next purchase is going to be a S&W 686 with a six inch barrel or a python with a six inch barrel. I am not a revolver mechanic, but I know how to check the timing, end shake, etc. so buying one of these guns is not a concern for me. If it's right when I get it, I keep it. If it isn't right, it goes back. Simple.