Ben Hur Adjustable

[Jake]

Very good sleuthing efsk. Thanks for clarifying this history. I think you might be right, although the history is unfortunately only available via inductive reasoning, or so it seems. You make a good point re the German on the cleaning cloth. It's just that every Ben Hur set I've ever purchased came from France. And the Apollos are usually from Germany. I wonder why. Have you gotten Ben Hur sets from Germany?

On a totally different topic, is it true that you might be taking over the German razor forum that may be closing down? Or have you already done so?

Thanks for your helpful contributions.

 

[jmudrick]

Fact remains that the Herckenrath factory, where all Ben Hur AND Apollo razors were produced, was called the Ben Hur Rasierklingen Fabrik (Ben Hur Razorblade Factory). Please be aware that Apollo was a brand in Germany as well, before Herckenrath acquired it. Also see this post where the Patent-entry is shown for a Herckenrath patent in 1933. That specifically mentions the Ben Hur-factory.
Seing how Ben Hur helped Christ when he was crucified, and then converted to christianity, thus renouncing being a Jew, 1930s anti-Ben Hur-sentiments might not be a certainty.

In the 1st century one did not renounce Judaism by following Jesus, the Jesus followers being then still a Jewish sect, but that's another forum.

Not disputing the Ben Hur factory existed in 1933, I just don't think you've established the Apollo look alike Ben Hurs were marketed in Germany. Jake's experience suggests they probably were not but I'm open to solid evidence.




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[User 306]

Whats confusing me is ( and believe me I'm no historian) the instructions seem to be written in French. On the bottom of the baseplate it says Ben Hur then under that is say Mikron and under that Solingen made in Germany. So it seems like the one I have was made and targeted the French market right? There is date anywhere and the only number is near the top of the instruction sheet and under where it says Ben Hur " Mikron and the number is N o 812.402
Don't have a clue what it all means.. based on the conditon of the one I have it seems like it was never used or maybe once and then put away as there is absolutely not one mark or fade or any sign of wear on the entire razor so I'm wondering if it's a late model. I had a Mikron with the Green logo and it was nice but not like this one and the top cap had the more commonly seen soft square look as opposed to this one that has the smooth rounded top cap. Jake I noticed your Ben Hur has the more squarish one as well. So again I'm thinking mine may be a newer model.
Really like to know more about the one I have but don't know the best source to find out. Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[jmudrick]

.. the instructions seem to be written in French. On the bottom of the baseplate it says Ben Hur then under that is say Mikron and under that Solingen made in Germany. So it seems like the one I have was made and targeted the French market right?.

That seems likely.

By the way @efsk, the name "Ben Hur" does appear on the 1938 Mikron patent application but not on the two postwar fillings which are in the name of Herkenrath & Co only.



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[User 306]

That seems likely.

By the way @efsk, the name "Ben Hur" does appear on the 1938 Mikron patent application but not on the two postwar fillings which are in the name of Herkenrath & Co only.



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Thank you for the information. The part that has me somewhat confused is the top cap being rounded and not the normal soft flat rather square top cap. Have you seen this often?

 

[jmudrick]

Thank you for the information. The part that has me somewhat confused is the top cap being rounded and not the normal soft flat rather square top cap. Have you seen this often?

You found no date/code on the instructions?

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[User 306]

You found no date/code on the instructions?

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NONE! the only numbers at all on the sheet was the ones I posted up above in my previous post. No dates anywhere on the razor, in or on the case ether.

 

[jmudrick]

NONE! the only numbers at all on the sheet was the ones I posted up above in my previous post. No dates anywhere on the razor, in or on the case ether.

Empty blade bank also?

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[User 306]

Empty blade bank also?

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Nope it’s completely full as seen below in the photos with the instructions and the top cap and baseplate.

 

[jmudrick]

Nope it’s completely full as seen below in the photos with the instructions and the top cap and baseplate.

View attachment 886796 View attachment 886797 View attachment 886798

I'm guessing 2/265 is the date code. 62 or 65? Very mysterious since the instructions reflect only the Model 2 1951 patent number.

I have slightly different №20 blades with my Model 3 but I can't know if they are original to the razor as mine is definitely used.

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[User 306]

I'm guessing 2/265 is the date code. 62 or 65? Very mysterious since the instructions reflect only the Model 2 1951 patent number.

I have slightly different №20 blades with my Model 3 but I can't know if they are original to the razor as mine is definitely used.

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It is a mystery to me to. The Milton I had came in a green leather case and most Ben Hurs I’ve seen come in a case like yours but mine is a metal case and I’m wondering if it’s an original case or someone just did a mix and match. I’m very happy with the condition I’m just wondering if the case and top cap is correct? I did try the Mikron top cap on the Ben Hur and it fit but it did not twist down as nicely as the cap it came with so I’m again guessing this is a late model but I may be way off base with that speculation.

Nice set by the way!

Thank you for all your help!

 

[jmudrick]

It is a mystery to me to. The Milton I had came in a green leather case and most Ben Hurs I’ve seen come in a case like yours but mine is a metal case and I’m wondering if it’s an original case or someone just did a mix and match. I’m very happy with the condition I’m just wondering if the case and top cap is correct? I did try the Mikron top cap on the Ben Hur and it fit but it did not twist down as nicely as the cap it came with so I’m again guessing this is a late model but I may be way off base with that speculation.

Nice set by the way!

Thank you for all your help!

[emoji106]

I actually prefer your smooth cap. Your handle is also different. Those two changes could have been cost cutting simplifications late in the production history (or not ) .

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[efsk]

Very good sleuthing efsk. Thanks for clarifying this history. I think you might be right, although the history is unfortunately only available via inductive reasoning, or so it seems. You make a good point re the German on the cleaning cloth. It's just that every Ben Hur set I've ever purchased came from France. And the Apollos are usually from Germany. I wonder why. Have you gotten Ben Hur sets from Germany?

Thanks. Like all of us, I'm just trying to find out more about the history of Apollo and Ben Hur. There apparently is a Facebookgroup dedictated to it, but I refuse to do Facebook.
My first Ben Hur, an ordinary three-piece OC, was purchased on a German fleamarket. My Ben Hur slant I've purchased from Germany as well. That, and the fact the factory was called Ben Hur, is the only evidence I have Ben Hur was sold in Germany as well. Also, most of the shown Mikrons here are post-war, a period where the French Apollo no longer existed.
I do agree that there seem to be a lot more Apollo razors around than Ben Hur.

 

[efsk]

but I'm open to solid evidence.

Exactly what I'm looking for as well

the name "Ben Hur" does appear on the 1938 Mikron patent application

Thanks, that is interesting information, also places Ben Hur in use in the height of the nazi era.
Herckenraths factory was no longer called Ben Hur after the war. Possibly, but I have to do more digging there, because Solingen was flattened during the war so they had to build a new plant.

 

[User 306]

I actually prefer your smooth cap. Your handle is also different. Those two changes could have been cost cutting simplifications late in the production history (or not ) .

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Thank you for all the help. I also like the overall look of my Ben Hur as well.

 

[romsitsa]

Beautiful razor. The D.R.P.a marking on the bottom indicates that a German patent was filed, but not yet issued, by the time it was made.
If it would have been exclusively marketed outside Germany, a Reichs Patent would make very little sense imho.
Going by that it is still a "Reichs Patent" it was most likely manufactured between 1949-52.
Update:
I an older thread a member gives the patent dates for the Apollo Mikron as:
filed: July, 1949
issued: 1951.
This is perfectly in line with the Ben Hurs marking.

Adam

 

[User 306]

Beautiful razor. The D.R.P.a marking on the bottom indicates that a German patent was filed, but not yet issued, by the time it was made.
If it would have been exclusively marketed outside Germany, a Reichs Patent would make very little sense imho.
Going by that it is still a "Reichs Patent" it was most likely manufactured between 1949-52.
Update:
I an older thread a member gives the patent dates for the Apollo Mikron as:
filed: July, 1949
issued: 1951.
This is perfectly in line with the Ben Hurs marking.

Adam

Thank you for the info so your saying mine was probably manufactured between 1949 -52?

 

[efsk]

@romsitsa thanks!

 

[romsitsa]

Thank you for the info so your saying mine was probably manufactured between 1949 -52?

Hello,

all I see is your instruction has the German patent number, so it has to be manufactured after it was issued (1951).
If they changed the patent after the Bundes Patent was issued (1958) then I'd say between 1951-58, but I'm not familiar with Herkenraths history.

Adam

 

[jmudrick]

Hello,

all I see is your instruction has the German patent number, so it has to be manufactured after it was issued (1951).
If they changed the patent after the Bundes Patent was issued (1958) then I'd say between 1951-58, but I'm not familiar with Herkenraths history.

Adam

To reiterate the Model 3 patent application was made in 1955, and the patent issued in 1958. D-,Beard's Ben Hur is with its non-tapered handle is a Model 3. His razor is therefore most likely 1955-58 Based on the date codes a later date is possible even though the 58 patent isn't indicated.

@Jake would be able to tell us if any/all of his Model 3 razors carry the 58 patent number. It's possible this patent number peculiarity is seen on the export models only, or not .

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