Basic honing questions

[DrStrange]

I've no objection to doing 1/1, I just wanted to know if it mattered, and if so, why.

It's a completely different process.

Typically edge leading strokes are done with
the razor blade laid flat on the hone,
making contact at the edge and on the spine.
At the end of the stroke, the razor is rolled on the spine
so that the edge faces the other way to make the return stroke.
The blade doesn't break contact with the hone between strokes.

I've never seen anyone do anything like that with a knife.

 

[Doc4]

My honest opinion is for better shaves just look at safety razors

So, your combined advice is to spend a lot of money I don't have. Thanks for nothing!

Dude, with a negative and hostile attitude like that ...

... you will fit right into the straight honing community.

But in all seriousness, if money (or lack thereof) is a big issue, it seems a little bass-ackward to buy some stones and then ask for advice. Presumably better to measure twice and cut once ... or debate ad infinitum for free before buying even one stone.

Guys are doing their best to advise you on the best way forward in your current situation, so appreciating their time and effort is probably a better long-term strategy than lashing out.

If the cost of a satisfactory setup is more than you can bear, better to know that clearly rather than being sent to throw good money after bad on a cheap stone.

 

[Sideburns]

But in all seriousness, if money (or lack thereof) is a big issue, it seems a little bass-ackward to buy some stones and then ask for advice.

I started out by asking for advice, explaining that my finances are limited, and got considerable advice, mostly suggesting that I buy a large collection of stones, costing over $100 each. Finally, somebody actually believed that I can't afford that and pointed me to something within my budget, and now, I'm trying to make what I have work well enough to get decent shaves. If I can manage that, I'll be happy as that's all I need, and at 74, I don't much care what other people think about my shaving skills, or much of anything else.

 

[Acmemfg]

I'm 72 and I care about "...what other people think...or much of anything else." Life seems to be more pleasant in general if people don't think poorly of you. Better if they see you as a nice guy. But I digress......
all that aside.
Want a "do it all" stone? Get yourself a coticule. Prices range all over the place. They usually come with a slurry stone.
Need an entry level razor you can work with throughout the entire gamut of honing/sharpening activities? I'll give you a Gold Dollar straight you can do with as you wish. A proper coticule and correctly sharpened razor will afford you a reasonable shaving set up that may last you for a long, long time.

 

[luvmysuper]

I don't much care what other people think about my shaving skills, or much of anything else.

That has become abundantly clear.
But you should care what other people think of your snarky attitute replies.
It's getting very tedious and you have a reputation as the guy who harshes everyone's mellow.
People ARE trying to help.
The fact that you don't like their advice is irrelevant.
Being 74 isn't a license to be a jerk.
This is going to be the last time we talk about it.
Please post your typical reply.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I started out by asking for advice, explaining that my finances are limited, and got considerable advice, mostly suggesting that I buy a large collection of stones, costing over $100 each. Finally, somebody actually believed that I can't afford that and pointed me to something within my budget, and now, I'm trying to make what I have work well enough to get decent shaves. If I can manage that, I'll be happy as that's all I need, and at 74, I don't much care what other people think about my shaving skills, or much of anything else.

I don't know where you're shopping. A set of Naniwa S2, the thicker version of the Super Stone, 1k, 5k, 8k, 12k, would run about $240 from Sharpening Supplies right now (they're on sale there). You might be able to get them cheaper elsewhere. The same vendor will set you back about $340 for Shapton Pros in 1.5k, 5k, 8k, and 12k. HOWEVER, you can get the Shaptons on Amazon for a lot less, probably closer to $250 for the bunch.

Lapping film in every conceivable grit, and a flat piece of glass or acrylic to lay it on, will set you back about $40. There are many threads here on that subject and it's the way that many of us learned to hone.

A homemade paddle strop with fabric and paste will be less than that. But that assumes a shave ready razor to begin with.

A good coticule will cover everything from midrange (or lower) to finish but the learning curve is steeper and you might not find the right one on the first try.

Now, as to what you NEED, that's hard to answer, it really depends on whether you are trying to learn to hone, or just trying to maintain an already shave-ready razor. But chances are, none of these options are going work on the RSO you have now.

If it was me, I'd try to return that SG7 set, or resell it. Then I would decide, do I want to learn to hone, or just maintain a razor. If you want to learn to hone, the lowest investment possible would be to get the assorted set of 3M, non-PSA backed lapping films from Taylor Toolworks and a couple cheap vintage razors from ebay and go to town. Very low investment, and lots of room to make mistakes and learn from them.

The other option would be to get a shave ready vintage razor (BST would be a good place to look) and shop around for the best deals on synthetic stones. You don't have to buy them all at once, start with a 12k or a 12k and an 8k and go from there.

 

[Eshebert]

A good coticule will cover everything from midrange (or lower) to finish but the learning curve is steeper and you might not find the right one on the first try.

I hate to admit it but one of my favorite coticules is a bout 7, I paid $23 for on Amazon on sale. Its fast as hell and if your patient on water, can provide a nice comfortable edge, but you have to do your part. That Coti and a 1K or 2k Naniwa Arata would be less than $80 and you have all you need.

 

[Acmemfg]

After I cut my chops on a King 1k bevel setter (currently available as a 1k-6k combination stone for $30-$50 on Amazon) and Norton 4k-8k, I used a coticule (like this one I still use to put some righteous edges on my thinner full hollows. No finisher really necessary). Basic old school shaving. Still a legit way to go.

 

[DrStrange]

So, your combined advice is to spend a lot of money I don't have. Thanks for nothing!

If these are sold before you get a chance,
then look for similar things at similar prices.

$17.50 + $13.49

Gillette 40s Style Super Speed Vintage Double Edge Safety Razor | eBay

Gillette 40s Style Super Speed. Fully functional! Weight: 2oz.

www.ebay.com

Gillette Silver Blue Double Edge Razor Blades- 100 Blades - Made in Russia | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Gillette Silver Blue Double Edge Razor Blades- 100 Blades - Made in Russia at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[HellGuapo]

plates and film fit the budget requirement while giving you a full progression start to finish. Then you be set while you scour auctions looking for dirty cheap stones. If you are patient, you can get beautiful vintage stones that after a bit of cleaning will last many lifetimes. You don’t have to get expensive stones to get good results, and there are plenty of well regarded ones that get recommended often.

 

[Sideburns]

If I have a set of stones that does what I need, why look for more? That's what collectors do, and I'm no collector. From what I've read here, I could use one more stone between the coarsest I'd be using and the finest, and once I have that, I'm all set.

 

[Sideburns]

If these are sold before you get a chance,
then look for similar things at similar prices.

Those are both for DEs, but I'm only interested in learning to use and maintain a SR. Please stop trying to get me to use something I've constantly interested in just because my way of going about things doesn't fit your mindset.

 

[Stapelfeld]

Those are both for DEs, but I'm only interested in learning to use and maintain a SR. Please stop trying to get me to use something I've constantly interested in just because my way of going about things doesn't fit your mindset.

Hey!

I genuinly think they are trying to help you. If an RSO straight is what I think it is you probably won't ever get that thing sharp, its cheap metal won't be able to hold an edge on that thing. Just like you won't get a pakistani razor to hold an edge.

A chinese gold dollar would be a better option in my opinion. I'm not telling you to buy anything btw i'm just saying that you will probably have a really hard time getting the RSO keen enough. Even if you did, the keeness would probably last one pass on your face before the edge crumbles down due to the heat treatment and cheap steal.

I feel your frustration and also understand the other members on this board. You bought a set of stones that aren't all that useful for the purpose you want them to do. There were a lot of better options under 100$. Some of the ones I recommended the most were Gammas, Esheberts, and lightfoots advice.

You can't get a fish to bark same way you probably won't ever be happy with the RSO to shave how you want it to.

I don't know what else to say but that I wish you luck.

 

[Wid]

Two pages of busting your heads against a wall…………why bother

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Two pages of busting your heads against a wall…………why bother

I'm a slow learner, Rick.

 

[David]

I thought the suggestions of the naniwa 12k in the other thread was a really good, and fairly cheap option. You could practice with your RSO all you wanted, and when you finally got a proper shave ready straight the 12k would keep it going for a long, long time.

 

[Frank Shaves]

If you decide to buy 210 x 70 mm stones, Shapton has a new line called Rock Star that is less expensive than the HR line and has gotten some good reviews.

 

[lightfoot]

I agree with another member that the Shapton Glass Stone 7 (1.2 micron) would be a good addition for the set that you have in the future.

I would explore the 6.7 micron stone you have. No harm in following it with the 0.44 as long as you can manage expectations because of the large gap but at least you can get a feel for the strokes with that size stone in the meantime.

I would avoid using the 25 micron for anything but knives.

 

[Legion]

I would avoid using the 25 micron for anything but knives.

I use my SG500 with razors sometimes, which is 29 micron, I think. I mainly use it to beat problem razors into shape, which I used to use a DMT 600 for, but the scratches off the SG500 are easier to get rid of than diamond.

 

[DrStrange]

I would add a 2 micron (6000) g7 to the progression.
My default shapton glass hr progression is 3k, 6k to 10k (Rock Star).

If I use my g7 stones I use a 2k, 6k, 8k to 0.85. I use my 0.44 for knifes. I don’t own any razors that benefit from using this after the 0.85 micron stone.

My arithmetic for bridging the gap between two stones with exactly one stone
is that the grit size of the middle stone should be X times the fine grit size,
and (1.0 / X) times the coarse grit size.

To fit in between 6.7 microns and 0.44 microns,
assuming that's what those numbers mean,
I would look for 1.7 microns or about 10K.

3.9 is the constant which ties those three numbers together.
6.7 / 3.9 == 1.7
1.7 / 3.9 == 0.44