Bad Lather: Clearly, I'm Doing Something Wrong

[Nick Danger]

Each day, my results with trying to get good lather from a soap get worse. Clearly I'm doing something wrong.

Today's lather was dry and crusty again. It starts off looking just like the lather from Jim's tutorial but quickly thins out and dries on my face. I can't even do a full pass. By the time I shave my cheeks and neck, I have to wash off the dry lather on my chin and upper lip and re-apply. I kept adding more water, and it got slightly better but still dried out quickly.

The other extreme for me is lather that's too thin and quickly dissolves into a layer of small bubbles. Neither type of lather is providing as much slickness as I expected from a soap.

I'm just not finding the sweet spot with Mike's soap. Very frustrating.

I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.

Previous (very long) post about my lathering problems is http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...About-My-Lather-Too-Wet-Too-Dry-or-Just-Right

Nick

 

[djh]

I have no experience with these soaps, but I would suggest to load more product. The problems you are having tell me that you need more soap on your brush before you start adding water and building lather.

 

[Nick Danger]

I have no experience with these soaps, but I would suggest to load more product. The problems you are having tell me that you need more soap on your brush before you start adding water and building lather.

Hmmm. More product? That's counter-intuitive but I'll give it a try. I thought the drying of the lather was the result of too much product and not enough water. I've been loading my brush for about 60 seconds. I'll load even more product tomorrow. I do have very hard water, so perhaps it does take more product than other guys seem to need.

I'll certainly try every variable before I give up on shaving soaps and go back to creams. Thanks for the suggestion!

Nick

 

[Mick]

You might be experiencing low humidity which is sucking the moisture out of your lather.

Are you shaving right after showering and is the room still steamy?

AND... the more product suggestion is also one I would make to you

 

[ackvil]

If you have hard water, buy some distilled water and use that in place of tap water. Also, have you tried other soaps?

 

[Charlie NJ]

I face lather exclusively, not sure if your face or bowl lathering but for mikes is a water hungry soap. Also a have a water treatment system and hard water could be hampering you. That being said for me Mikes soap is a very good soap, it can be hard to lather but once you get it right, it's a great shave

 

[joser]

I noticed in your linked post (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...About-My-Lather-Too-Wet-Too-Dry-or-Just-Right) that you are using Mike's Unscented Soap which doesn't like hot water (like MWF). In addition to using more product (like those above have stated) try using warm or cold water which is recommended for those that can't get a decent MWF lather. Also, give face lathering a try as I haven't been able to get a good bowl lather from Mike's, but I do get a great face lather from it.

 

[Nick Danger]

You might be experiencing low humidity which is sucking the moisture out of your lather.

Are you shaving right after showering and is the room still steamy?

AND... the more product suggestion is also one I would make to you

There is definitely low humidity in my apartment. I was actually thinking about getting a better humidifier. I do shower right after shaving but I leave the door open so the room isn't all steamy.

I'm going to try a lot more product, and more water, tomorrow to see if I get better results.

If you have hard water, buy some distilled water and use that in place of tap water. Also, have you tried other soaps?

I guess it's time to try the distilled water, but I've never had a problem with my lather from creams drying out. The only other soap I've tried is QCS, but it burned my skin so badly I sold it on B/S/T after two uses. I don't remember having quite as much trouble with the lather drying out, but it was also earlier in winter before it got really cold and dry here in Chicago.

I have some Mystic Waters soap on order that should arrive in the next few days. I'll be curious to see if I get different results with that vs. the Mike's I have now.

Nick

 

[shaverjoe]

Nick- I was hoping your results would improve but since they haven't I decided to do some time elapsed photos with Mike's for you.

My setup was some Mike's Orange and a Semogue 610 boar. I loaded the brush for about 15-20 seconds. I have hard water as well but you may get better results with distilled water.

Here is the lather at time zero.


Some soft peaks on the brush.



I spread the lather out



Then pulled the lather into some soft peaks on my palm

 

[shaverjoe]

Here is the lather after 2:30. Yeah, I just stood there


The lather down near my wrist is dry but that was because I barely put any there. The lather is pretty stable and the peaks are nice and soft.


Peaks remain. Lather still nice and moist.



Brush holding water and lather fine.

 

[shaverjoe]

Here is the lather after 5:30. Still just standing there

Lather remains stable



Peaks remain nice and stable.


After this time, I just mashed my hand together and the lather is still very moist and stable. Mike's is a very thirsty soap and will hold a lot of water which is why I think it is such a good soap. You can try to use distilled water but I would still recommend you start with a moist, but not dripping wet brush. Load your brush for about 20-30 seconds and add water slowly as you build your lather. I hope this helps. Good luck. IMO, it's worth learning to use it.

 

[JHP]

My setup was some Mike's Orange and a Semogue 610 boar. I loaded the brush for about 15-20 seconds. I have hard water as well but you may get better results with distilled water.

Here is the lather at time zero.


Some soft peaks on the brush.
View attachment 301118

Hey Joe, In that first picture, did you build that lather on your hand after the 20 second load? That can't be the result of a 20 second load!

Nick. I agree with others that I really think you need more product. It may seem counter-intuitive to you, but I think it will work. I'd suggest you go less by time, and more by the look of the pre-lather in your brush. Everyone has different brushes, different amounts of pressure they apply to the brush while loading, different water conditions, etc. I know from other posts that Jim has a water softener so you can't compare yourself to him. Just keep loading. You really can't overdue it. Joe says he has hard water, and look at that lather!

You've been spoiled with that Spencer & Devon! At some point it's just going to work, and then you're going to think, "why was this a problem?"!

Load it like you hate it, and if it does't work, rinse it down the drain and try it again! It's fun.

Chicago public works is going to curse you for the mountains of anti-foaming additives they have to use at the sewage treatment plant this week!

Josh

 

[JHP]

Oh, and by the way. I think the dry winter conditions can cause SOME lather deterioration, but in my opinion that is not the problem you are experiencing right now. I'm in Minneapolis, so I think I can speak to dry conditions. From my experience, the dry conditions can make my bowl of lather look a little less glossy from the evaporation, but a quick whip brings it right back, and it won't dry out on my face at all.

 

[shaverjoe]

Hey Joe, In that first picture, did you build that lather on your hand after the 20 second load? That can't be the result of a 20 second load!
Josh

Josh-

Yes, I palm lathered the soap after the 20 second load. I should have mentioned that. I face lather exclusively but I figured you guys would rather see my hand than my face.

Another tip I offered Nick in a previous thread- though I did not do it with this lather- is to put about a teaspoon of water on top of the puck and let it sit there while you shower/prepare your beard. This aids in the soap loading process as well.

 

[xillion]

I noticed in your linked post that you are using Mike's Unscented Soap which doesn't like hot water (like MWF).

+1 to this.

I've had success using the Marco Method with Mike's. I find it to be a thirsty soap.

Here are my results using a sample of Mike's Barbershop scent.

 

[Nick Danger]

Joe: Thanks for the amazing pictures, and for your patience in between shots. I really appreciate you taking so much time to help me solve my lathering dilemma. FYI: I have been using the trick putting a spoon of water on the puck and letting it sit while I shower. At least I was doing that part right.

Jose suggested I use less-than-hot water. That's an interesting tip. I always lather my creams with cold water, but have been using fairly hot water from the tap to lather with Mike's. I'm going to try cold water and see if it helps.

Josh: I'm going to try loading the heck out of my brush and see if that does make a difference. In fact, I may do a few test lathers tonight just for practice. If I can get any decent photos, I'll post my results.

Chris: Your pictures are great, too. Really helpful. My lather has not looked as pillowy as yours, so I don't think I've had it quite right yet.

Marco's method is pretty different than Jim's, since Marco uses a much wetter brush than Jim. I'm going to try it with the wetter brush and see how that helps.

My only brush is a T&H silvertip, but it's a good brush and I think it has enough backbone for soap lathering. I don't think the brush is the problem.

I'm determined to figure this out.

Nick

 

[todayilearned]

I had the same exact problem.

I live in a low humidity area and the water here is hard. I switched to distilled water.

One thing I think was doing wrong was not lathering properly. When I thought I had built up the right lather I really hadn't so it was slightly dry and chalky. Then I'd add more water and it would just look like thick soda.

Try to whip up the lather really well.

I personally think of my soap/creams as a grity substance that needs to be uniformly exposed to water. I spread it out and keep whipping it. It has helped out quite a bit.

 

[Gref]

Xillion I hate you! And by that, I mean I am extremely jealous of your abilities.

 

[sychodelix]

Here is the lather after 5:30. Still just standing there

And...you just stood there? Holding lather?

And I thought I was nuts.

 

[shaverjoe]

And...you just stood there? Holding lather?

And I thought I was nuts.

Yup. I just stood there, enjoying the smell of the lather.