Arkansas Progression

[atticus92]

What's going on everybody. This is my first time posting in this section of the forum. I took the time to hone my razors this weekend. A couple were antique shop buys that hadn't been honed yet so they got a bevel set. My progression goes like this

soft ark
hard ark
surgical black ark
balsa with CrOx/Fe
linen/leather strop

Only the razors that needed a bevel set saw the soft ark. I get good results with this. I keep a buzzed head so no hair to do a HHT, but coming off the black the razors were picking up arm hair above the skin. I have a question though. Is there any noticeable difference between the surgical black and the translucent? Was wondering if the translucent will make for a little smoother shave or if the edge coming off it is even noticeably different.

Also I'm looking for something new to hone on. I like the arks but variety is the spice of life so I want some options. I'm thinking a 1k of some sort, and either a coticule, Norton 4/8, or Naniwa 3/8. I also have some film coming in from whipped dog so I'm set for that. Any suggestions for the stones would be great.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[oakeshott]

Also I'm looking for something new to hone on. I like the arks but variety is the spice of life so I want some options. I'm thinking a 1k of some sort, and either a coticule, Norton 4/8, or Naniwa 3/8. I also have some film coming in from whipped dog so I'm set for that. Any suggestions for the stones would be great.

Thanks,
Matt

buckle your seatbelt

 

[Shawn557]

And that rabbit hole is deep.......

I'm relatively new to honing so take this with a grain of salt. I like the coticules and the edge they produce but have yet to be able to master them. Their learning curve is slightly steep but not impossible. Some guys have quicker success with them but I've been working at it for a few months and am very hit and miss on my edges. I recently picked up a Shoubudani Type 100 Jnat from Japanese Naturals with three naguras and have great success with that. Even that is not as "instant" as film but easier to learn than a coticule IMHO.

It comes down to the type of edge you like and what agrees with your face. I am not a fan of synthetic edges on my razors. They are a bit harsh for me. Some guys prefer a laser sharp edge that synthetics produce. I prefer shaving with a razor sharpened on a natural stone as they feel more mellow. Some are able to produce smooth edges with synthetics but I have not been able to do so. Again, I'm relatively new to honing so take it for what it's worth.

I've found that everybody here is friendly and willing to offer great advice to help. Before you decide on jumping into the investment of a new hone, maybe ask some guys here to hone a few razors on some different types of stones, either synthetic or natural and let your face decide which "system" to go with. It may cost you a few bucks and time shipping back and forth but it could save you money in the long run as long as you don't venture down the rabbit hole as most have.

Shawn

 

[jpcwon]

^^Great post by Shawn. It really does boil down to what your preferences are & what kind of edge you like, and sending a few razors out to be honed on different systems is a great idea.

I too did not go for the synthetic feel, which then dictated which hones I sold/bought (naturals). The good news is that hones typically hold their value pretty well (esp. coticules), so in most cases you can recoup most of your money should you decide to sell them. So "jumping down the rabbit hole" may be expensive initially, but it's not like you're out the money completely should you decide that a particular stone is not for you...

 

[chuckr9]

I only have the Arkansas Black and the Translucent (both rated as extra fine). To me the translucent works best as the final finisher (usually after a coticule). I have not tried the Arki Translucent following lapping film since I can get light saber keeness off the film. On the coticules, my honing technique/abilities are not yet good enough to get that last bit of keeness off the coticule - thus I bought the Arki Translucent for the final finish.

I have not gone competely down the "rabbit hole", since I haven't starting looking at JNats!

 

[Shawn557]

I have not gone competely down the "rabbit hole", since I haven't starting looking at JNats!

If you do, you won't be sorry.....I couldn't be happier with my Shoubudani! The cost isn't too bad either. About the same as a 5x2 coticule!

 

[Krodor]

Arks have my heart. I have a washita from my grandfathers hone set when he passed away, and the surgical black I got from Paco a while back is capable of ridiculous keenness. Yeah, they are slow, but I don't often hone in a hurry. Wish i had something to fill in the gap between them so I could have a full set. I grew up in Oklahoma and spent a few summer vacations over in Arkansas. What beauty. Reminds me of when I was a kid.

 

[Gamma]

The SB and Trans Arks are classified as having identical particle densities.

Even so - different samples of either, even stones with an indentical Specific Gravity, will/can have slightly differnet qualities though.
A lot depends on the crystalline matrix/composition of the samples in question.

I've had two Translucents and the SB Ark edged both of the TAs out. Since the tests were less than scientific, all I can really say is that the edges I was getting from the SB Ark were consistently smoother. That could be the result of technique, the blades, or any other number of variables.
I'll also say that the 'difference' was marginal and could possibly be imagined on my part.

Two big variables are; how well was the stone lapped and then how was it finished-lapped?
How well was the pre-finish stage done?

Personally - I can't imagine needing or wanting to use a paste of any kind after a Trans/SB Ark.

 

[atticus92]

Thanks for the responses everybody. Getting my razors honed on different systems seems like a good idea, I might have to look into that. I may eventually get the translucent just to test it out. As for now I am leaning towards the coticule.

Personally - I can't imagine needing or wanting to use a paste of any kind after a Trans/SB Ark.

Ill have to try it without the pastes. I had the balsa strop so I have just always used it.

 

[tomjr]

trans. arki's are great finishing hones.

 

[Disburden]

I have a surgical black that puts a crazy polish on a razor, very high finisher, it does not cut much at all only polishes the edge after being sharpened.
It took me a week to lap the damn thing, it is an 8x2".

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

I agree with Gamma & Disburden, perhaps before you startbuying new stones you might try squeezing the most from your Surgical Black.
I finish hard arks, Translucent and Blacks progressively withloose Silicone Carbide then wet and dry paper up to 1K. Then burnish with hardsteel, a few kitchen knives with pressure, work well for this.

You should get a very smooth, keen shave straight off a well prepped and finished Ark, without paste or strop, linen or leather.

Then there are pastes & Nano sprays on arks… and endlesscombinations.

It is, all about the prep. They are true finishers, perhaps why you rarely see large, old stones for sale.

You’ve only scratched the surface of your ark’s potential.

 

[Disburden]

Boonshaft

Are you using oil on the stones?

 

[Alum of Potash]

I like the soft Ark, hard Ark, and black Ark progression w/oil very much. Actually, it's all I really need beyond a chip-remover and an occasional piece o'crox--and towards the latter end with the black Ark, it's all about smoothness obtained from continued use! If only the hard Ark could drop out to simplify matters. I have said this before, but I'll say it again, Dan's black stone is allegedly finer than his translucent stone. It's only the rarity of the latter than inflates the price there. Dan's "true hard" is more or less equivalent to his "translucent," both of them ranging between the hard Ark and the black Ark. Following this, if the hard stone can drop out before the black, at least in theory, then so can the true hard and translucent.

In short, to the OP, if I had to do things all over again, I would stick with your original set-up as given. Wear those stones down and revitalize the lower end as needed.

 

[Doc226]

Before you decide on jumping into the investment of a new hone, maybe ask some guys here to hone a few razors on some different types of stones, either synthetic or natural and let your face decide which "system" to go with. It may cost you a few bucks and time shipping back and forth but it could save you money in the long run as long as you don't venture down the rabbit hole as most have.

Shawn

That there is very, very good advice.

I tried many stones (most I purchased and sold) before I found what I really liked.

 

[Disburden]

Do you mean relap the lower arks to keep them fresh but smooth out the surgical black with use?

I like the soft Ark, hard Ark, and black Ark progression w/oil very much. Actually, it's all I really need beyond a chip-remover and an occasional piece o'crox--and towards the latter end with the black Ark, it's all about smoothness obtained from continued use! If only the hard Ark could drop out to simplify matters. I have said this before, but I'll say it again, Dan's black stone is allegedly finer than his translucent stone. It's only the rarity of the latter than inflates the price there. Dan's "true hard" is more or less equivalent to his "translucent," both of them ranging between the hard Ark and the black Ark. Following this, if the hard stone can drop out before the black, at least in theory, then so can the true hard and translucent.

In short, to the OP, if I had to do things all over again, I would stick with your original set-up as given. Wear those stones down and revitalize the lower end as needed.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Do you mean relap the lower arks to keep them fresh but smooth out the surgical black with use?

Yes, provided that the black Ark is the last stone being used.

 

[Slash McCoy]

The thing with the translucent and black Arkies is that when you lap them, you have a coarse surface that takes a long time to smooth out. So these stones you should lap very carefully on a very flat surface, run a progression of wet-dry paper up to 2k grit, then smooth with one of the ultra-fine diamond hones. Or you could apply a little 1u diamond paste or slurry and rub it with another black or trans arkie that has also just been lapped. After lapping, it will smooth out with use on its own, but that can take a while. Meanwhile, the finish on the blade is determined by the surface finish of the hone, rather than its grit size, until it has smoothed out. These rocks are crazy hard, and can hold the finish exactly as lapped for several honing sessions. After lapping any of the super hard Arkies, I like to hone a few kitchen knives on them to smooth them out. When they seem to stop cutting the kitchen knives, you are getting your smooth surface back.

The trans and blacks are really slow stones. The soft and hard are fairly fast, and make great bevel setters if nicely lapped. Finish isn't as critical, as long as they are nice and flat. They smooth out quickly on their own. You can lap them on 400 grit wet-dry, or a 325 DMT, whatever. I prefer the paper, myself.

You can cheat a little with the trans and blacks, by using a little .5u diamond slurry on the stone.

For a finisher on top of the arkies, consider a C12k. It seems appropriate to have a natural slow finisher on top of the slow fine arkies. You can hone with oil on the C12k same as you do the Arkies. If you don't mind a little more mix n match, a 12k Naniwa Superstone would make a good finisher. You could also drop the superfine arkies and follow the hard with an 8k Norton, then a finisher.

For your own personal razors, you will only need to run the full progression once, anyway. So your finisher will get most of your attention, doing the occasional touchup.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Not one to lap a stone much beyond 400x here, or sprinkle fairy dust on the stone instead of leather where it sticks. Rather, just let the blades do the smoothing with the black Ark, so as to arrive at a symbiotic relationship. So long as the preceding sequence is kept flat (and here we're honing used purchases of varying condition) the black Ark can dish, which can be beneficial in that it acts more on the edge itself in this way at the end, sort of like leaving the strop a bit slack. Or in the short run, to make up for it, one can tape the spine at the end of the complete honing session, until the black stone is sufficiently broken in.

 

[atticus92]

I appreciate everyone's replies. I took the plunge and bought a coticule and some lapping film. Ill have to give the arks another chance. Right now I'm trying to get the best edge I can out of the coticule.