There's no point discussing prices. People charge what they can get. Some pay hundreds of dollars for coffee beans that a civet rodent pooped out.
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Are expensive badger brushes significantly better than Stirling Finest?
- Thread starter cw62803
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There's no point discussing prices. People charge what they can get. Some pay hundreds of dollars for coffee beans that a civet rodent pooped out.
Plisson are known to be floppy and soft. If that's the type of thing you like, look no further than Plisson European Badger brushes.
My take is there is no "better", get what's within your budget and tastes. If a $800 or $20 makes you happy, then that's what works.
I may enjoy a $800 badger much more than a $50 brush but I'll also have $750 worth of anxiety of having to baby it.
Get something you won't take too seriously and enjoy it to the max.
My $23 Yaqi Silvertip metal gives me $80 - $100 worth of luxury and performance, the joy and piece of mind from getting a great deal and being able to use the brush to the max and not worry if I damage it... Priceless!
Happy shaves,
Mawashi
I may enjoy a $800 badger much more than a $50 brush but I'll also have $750 worth of anxiety of having to baby it.
Get something you won't take too seriously and enjoy it to the max.
My $23 Yaqi Silvertip metal gives me $80 - $100 worth of luxury and performance, the joy and piece of mind from getting a great deal and being able to use the brush to the max and not worry if I damage it... Priceless!
Happy shaves,
Mawashi
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
I am sure there are some brushes which are objectively better than others, and plenty more subjectively better for me, but I still agree 100% with your statement...
I know there are excellent by any functional standard brushes way under $20. I've heard some of the super expensive brushes have characteristics which make it unlikely I'd enjoy them. Some of the most expensive brushes I've purchased have been some of the ones I disliked the most.
Nicely stated, sir.
Who wants to feel anxiety about a brush or a brush purchase? Not me.
Happy shaves,
Jim
Thanks very much Jim.
Like you rightly said, certain characteristics may not be appreciated and when you've paid a lot for it, it becomes a source of irritation.
The reason why I refuse to spend a lot for my shaving stuff is I simply don't know what I really want yet. It would really suck to buy into all that hype about a really expensive brush only to prefer a much cheaper brush.
Take for example my Yaqi purple 2 band, it's big, has wonderful skirtch but I prefer a tad more backbone. So the solution is to have 1 or 2 24mm O rings at the base of the knot to tighten it up and make it splay less and give it a backbone like it was set deeper.
That $17 dollar brush now has all the characteristics I would pay in a much more expensive brush.
Happy shaves,
Mawashi
i would like to have one of everything like a soft one a hard one a synthetic one. because sometimes. until i find what i like. sometimes i wanna bowl lather sometimes i wanna face lather. different soaps... different knots.... i only got one brush now. its a alright brush works well for me. but i don't know if its hard or soft because i have nothing to compare it too. i got two brushes on the way though a shavemac with Manchurian knot and another brush with a manchurian mixed with horse hair. that plisson company got a synthetic now. would like to try that out. from all the stuff i ever bought. the best stuff that i liked the most came from France and England. and Germany. but mostly France.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
My wife reminds me that her grandfather had one mug, one razor, one brush. For his entire life. I doubt he was unusual for his generation of working men.
I'd bet we enjoy shaving more though.
I'd bet we enjoy shaving more though.
These were much harder men and I doubt they had a lot to enjoy other than food, drinks and some rare trips.
Only those who had more money could indulge in such pleasures as good soaps, 7 day razor sets and badger brushes.
Or gasp, more frequent visits to a barber for trims and shaves.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Times change of course, and so do people (sorta kinda).
For my money the classic post on the history of straight razor shaving was written by Arne @Polarbeard. It's worth reading again.
One of my favorite books is The Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett. In his introduction to his thousand page historical novel Mr. Follett enjoins his readers to keep in mind that the average man in jail or prison today has a better and easier life than the wealthy, including kings and such, had in the time setting of the book, which was 12th century England.
I wishsome of all of the dull history books I read in college had been written by writers as good as Ken Follett. Talk about making history come alive! Even though I think Pillars should be read first, his first sequel to it is even better in my view (but only if Pillars precedes it).
I've known men with the means to collect shaving stuff in the way we do, but they chose to spend their money and time on other pursuits. Besides, they would have regarded what we think of as a hobby as a frivolous and stupid waste of time and money.
What did Shakespeare say? "As you like it..."
Happy shaves,
Jim
For my money the classic post on the history of straight razor shaving was written by Arne @Polarbeard. It's worth reading again.
One of my favorite books is The Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett. In his introduction to his thousand page historical novel Mr. Follett enjoins his readers to keep in mind that the average man in jail or prison today has a better and easier life than the wealthy, including kings and such, had in the time setting of the book, which was 12th century England.
I wish
I've known men with the means to collect shaving stuff in the way we do, but they chose to spend their money and time on other pursuits. Besides, they would have regarded what we think of as a hobby as a frivolous and stupid waste of time and money.
What did Shakespeare say? "As you like it..."
Happy shaves,
Jim
Jim, Arne is a gem of a man, a real writer and historian of all things shaving especially Swedish steel.
As for writers, we relate to those who's ability to portray the world touches us, for me it's the world according to Garp by John Irving that allows me to see that world through the eyes and minds of the characters he brings to life.
Yes, if only done writers could write lol.
Our forebearers were frugal cos life was hard, it was only after the Cuban missile crisis that the thought of instant and unpredictable anniliation that resulted in the enjoy while you can lifestyle and became the American way.
I wonder what the founding fathers would think of the Kardashians lol!
Let's just say that if all I had was proraso, a Yaqi 2 band brush, the GC84 and BICs I'll be happy with my shaves till I pass on.
Happy shaves,
Mawashi
There is some truth to the 750$ worth of anxiety statement. I've got a Rooney Finest that is absolutely incredible. The density is unworldly. The backbone, the lathering, the scrub and scritch. It's a work of art. It looks NOS because it's seen so little use because I only break it out when I want to treat myself, like it's a Westvleteren or some exotic food that's horrible for me. Meanwhile my second best brush is a $50 Semogue Mixed hair that has seen triple digits of uses.
+1 you don't drive a Ferrari to get groceries lol.
It's so good you don't want to overuse it cos it PRECIOUS lol.
So this thread inspired me to buy the Stirling brush and try it. I was hoping Stirling would have some brushes at Maggard's Meet, but they didn't so I went ahead and ordered it. I had my first shave with it today and I will say it is amazing. For the price, the Stirling 2-band Fan is very hard to beat. It is a medium+ density brush that has great softness and delivers a superb lather. It almost feels likes a cross between a Declaration and Paladin knot. Great job Stirling as this brush blows competitors in it's price range out of the water and competes very well with the big boys. I need to use the brush more than once, but to be honest it is very hard to justify the price of the Paladins and Declarations after trying this brush. Don't get me wrong, I still love my Paladins and Declarations and I doubt I will ever be selling them. However, the Stirling punches way out of it's weight class.
Sure there are some characteristics that the more expensive brushes can provide. The Declarations have very strong density and backbone. The Stirling is not a dense and has weaker backbone although it is far from floppy. It just comes off as a more medium density knot. The Stirling also has no characteristics of gel tips like a B5 or B6 Declaration or a D5 and E5 Paladin. I also find the D5 knot of Paladin to be special. Although the Stirling brush lacks these special attributes, it is still an amazing brush that for the price I recommend everyone try at least one.
Sure there are some characteristics that the more expensive brushes can provide. The Declarations have very strong density and backbone. The Stirling is not a dense and has weaker backbone although it is far from floppy. It just comes off as a more medium density knot. The Stirling also has no characteristics of gel tips like a B5 or B6 Declaration or a D5 and E5 Paladin. I also find the D5 knot of Paladin to be special. Although the Stirling brush lacks these special attributes, it is still an amazing brush that for the price I recommend everyone try at least one.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Nice review.
I'd bet you would love a Zenith, too, and find them even better brushes for not much more money. I'm primarily speaking of the Manchurians because I have Zenith Manchurian badgers but not silvertips (I have Z boars and a Z horse, too).
In other words, I can't tell you about the Zenith silvertips from my experience, but I've read they've got a backbone even stronger than my Zenith Manchurian copper handled brush. If that's true, and if you like backbone, you'd love them. The copper handled Manchurian has so much backbone that gentlemen, when they found out I'd ordered one, warned me about it.
They were right. It's a transplant.
I love my Stirling two band brushes, too, and my Yaqi two bands are much the same as the Stirlings.
Frankly I'm fine with anybody buying anything they want, but I often don't think they're getting much for their money, at least not much I'd want to spend my money on with the super expensive brushes.
Not that I don't have a ridiculous number of safety razors I don't use anymore + a growing collection of straights (more than anyone needs) + a vast collection of soaps (and I use only Grooming Dept soaps now) + hones and strops and about 4000 double edged and single edged razor blades. That's not even mentioning brushes and single edged razors and injectors.
Who am I to talk about anyone spending money on anything? If it's your money it's your business, right? Plus, I wouldn't mind having a Paladin and a DG brush or twenty if someone's tired of theirs.
Happy shaves,
Jim
Nice review. This explains it pretty well. Although I have not tried Declaration and Paladins, I feel that Stirling brushes does the trick for me without the extra bread involved.
Jim you're a man after my own heart.
We use whatever works and if it's cheaper, so much the better, but otherwise I'm happy with the Yaqis and Omegas
Happy shaves,
Mawashi
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Thank you for a very interesting post.
More density than a Yaqi two band or a Stirling finest (same thing these) might be something I'd pay for. I'd know going into it that gains beyond those "lowly" brushes would be both expensive and marginal considering the expense. Maybe marginal period.
Gel tips? I have one AP Gelousy brush. One is enough. Someone mentioned in this or another thread the disgusting feeling of a chemically treated gel tip. I'm not sure I'd go that far. Well, I'm sure I wouldn't as I certainly don't hate my Gelousy brush, but I get what they're talking about. It doesn't feel very real and I don't like it as much as some of my other brushes.
My copper handled Zenith Manchurian is every bit as soft in its tips as any brush I know of, but it took some real time to achieve that softness + it is just the perfect knot + it feels not only perfect but real.
Notice: I'm not saying all knots aren't chemical treated. Maybe all are. Maybe only some are. The AP Gelousy is chemical treated on steroids.
I'd bet 95% of us, assuming we like badger brushes at all, would be, on a desert island to which we'd happened to bring a Stirling finest brush, be very glad to have it.
Certainly I would.
Happy shaves,
Jim
Hmmmmm now where do I start, Ok I will try here every brush you get is different from the others may it be a badger, boar, horse, synthetic, all the knots do the same job.
the only difference I have found is boar needs soaking longer than the others, synthetic knots are good to go as soon as it's in the hand that's if you like that sort of knot I don't.
And Gentlemen their you have it it all boils down to the handle that is pleasing to the eye, and that is what you're paying for yes I have over 150 brushes now. And one thing got me thinking if you put all the brushes into a cover that you could only see the knot you would be lost,
Boar looks the same as each other same with badger and so on.. you would just see a carpet of hair.
the only difference I have found is boar needs soaking longer than the others, synthetic knots are good to go as soon as it's in the hand that's if you like that sort of knot I don't.
And Gentlemen their you have it it all boils down to the handle that is pleasing to the eye, and that is what you're paying for yes I have over 150 brushes now. And one thing got me thinking if you put all the brushes into a cover that you could only see the knot you would be lost,
Boar looks the same as each other same with badger and so on.. you would just see a carpet of hair.
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