Are expensive badger brushes significantly better than Stirling Finest?

[nav]

Everyone has a different opinion but here's my experience:

I have used some higher end brushes like Simpson chubby (and several others), shavemac D01 and finest, and a few others that were around the $100 mark.

To be honest, I hated them. Sold them (except a Simpson Commodore x2) and switched to boar brushes, then synthetics.

I hated this badger brushes due to the density, lack of splay and lather hogging.

This was about 5 or 6 years ago. Fast forward to today and I'm the happy owner of about 25 badger brushes, mostly from Yaqi.

Why the sudden change in my preference?
I bought a Yaqi two band and as hooked right away! The amazing splay and perfect backbone, great lather release/no lather hogging.

So now I have $1000 worth of badger brushes. Is a $200 badger brush better, no way!! It's just a matter of preference and also brand/image. Yaqi is direct from the Chinese factory so of course value for money will be relatively much better!!

Every time I post this on a forum, someone always replies with "but have you tried a paladin?"...my reply is why would I want to spend $200+ on a brush that will give me more of the characteristic I hate (very high density)?

So I believe the premium badger hair is magical in some way? Not at all! The badger hair is the same unless it's treated to have gel tips (which I find disgusting on my face!). It's basically about brand/image, density and consistency (some of my Yaqi's have slight variations in density and loft, but nothing major).

BTW very interestingly, the two band Yaqi that got me hooked is the same as what they OEM for Stirling!!

 

[Sharp_Obsession]

Everyone has a different opinion but here's my experience:

I have used some higher end brushes like Simpson chubby (and several others), shavemac D01 and finest, and a few others that were around the $100 mark.

To be honest, I hated them. Sold them (except a Simpson Commodore x2) and switched to boar brushes, then synthetics.

I hated this badger brushes due to the density, lack of splay and lather hogging.

This was about 5 or 6 years ago. Fast forward to today and I'm the happy owner of about 25 badger brushes, mostly from Yaqi.

Why the sudden change in my preference?
I bought a Yaqi two band and as hooked right away! The amazing splay and perfect backbone, great lather release/no lather hogging.

So now I have $1000 worth of badger brushes. Is a $200 badger brush better, no way!! It's just a matter of preference and also brand/image. Yaqi is direct from the Chinese factory so of course value for money will be relatively much better!!

Every time I post this on a forum, someone always replies with "but have you tried a paladin?"...my reply is why would I want to spend $200+ on a brush that will give me more of the characteristic I hate (very high density)?

So I believe the premium badger hair is magical in some way? Not at all! The badger hair is the same unless it's treated to have gel tips (which I find disgusting on my face!). It's basically about brand/image, density and consistency (some of my Yaqi's have slight variations in density and loft, but nothing major).

BTW very interestingly, the two band Yaqi that got me hooked is the same as what they OEM for Stirling!!

I know you stated you've never used a Paladin, but the Paladin brushes are not "very high density." Ken does not prefer a super dense knot. Paladin aims for a very consistent "medium" density knot in their brushes. Yes, some other brush makers have very dense knots in their brush.

 

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I know you stated you've never used a Paladin, but the Paladin brushes are not "very high density." Ken does not prefer a super dense knot. Paladin aims for a very consistent "medium" density knot in their brushes. Yes, some other brush makers have very dense knots in their brush.

Fair enough.

I appreciate this info however, I doubt I'd spend $200+ on medium density which I already get from Yaqi.

I also believe, but could be wrong, that paladin has gel tips/treated hair?
I had a custom RV brush which was beautiful but I sold it due to gel tips. I just find the feeling disgusting.

In any case, given my personal comparisons of some high end brushes and Yaqi brushes, I really don't think I could bring myself to spend more than $50 on a brush again. My most expensive badger is the Yaqi high mountain badger...Pure luxury all the way!

 

[pork]

Everyone has a different opinion but here's my experience:


Every time I post this on a forum, someone always replies with "but have you tried a paladin?"...my reply is why would I want to spend $200+ on a brush that will give me more of the characteristic I hate (very high density)?

I agree. Paladins are not high density knots. And you don't have to spend $200 to try one out. Most of the 26mm retail for less than $200 new and can be found for much less used. I'm not trying to convince you to try/buy a Paladin, either new or used. I'm just trying to clear up the misinformation posted here.

 

[nav]

I agree. Paladins are not high density knots. And you don't have to spend $200 to try one out. Most of the 26mm retail for less than $200 new and can be found for much less used. I'm not trying to convince you to try/buy a Paladin, either new or used. I'm just trying to clear up the misinformation posted here.

The paladin reference was in a different context...

...It was purely to illustrate that I've tried enough high end badger brushes to make a fair comparison and that there's no requirement for me to "try em all" so to speak.

 

[Sharp_Obsession]

Fair enough.

I appreciate this info however, I doubt I'd spend $200+ on medium density which I already get from Yaqi.

I also believe, but could be wrong, that paladin has gel tips/treated hair?
I had a custom RV brush which was beautiful but I sold it due to gel tips. I just find the feeling disgusting.

In any case, given my personal comparisons of some high end brushes and Yaqi brushes, I really don't think I could bring myself to spend more than $50 on a brush again. My most expensive badger is the Yaqi high mountain badger...Pure luxury all the way!

The knots change over time based on the harvest in China. Ken tries to update the information in the knot notes. A year ago a lot of the knots did gel to varying degrees. The E5 and D5 as well as few others seemed to gel the most and were highly sought after. However, the more recent knots (like other brush makers as well) lack the gelling attribute. They are still soft, with good backbone, but either don't gel at all or very little. I may be mistaken, but I thought I read somewhere that Ken actually prefers a knot that doesn't gel. I think a lot of the gelling characteristics yes have to do with bleaching and tip treatment, but also vary most with the harvest. All the brush makers seemed to have gelling knots at the same time and most seem to be lacking gelling characteristics lately.

 

[nav]

The knots change over time based on the harvest in China. Ken tries to update the information in the knot notes. A year ago a lot of the knots did gel to varying degrees. The E5 and D5 as well as few others seemed to gel the most and were highly sought after. However, the more recent knots (like other brush makers as well) lack the gelling attribute. They are still soft, with good backbone, but either don't gel at all or very little. I may be mistaken, but I thought I read somewhere that Ken actually prefers a knot that doesn't gel. I think a lot of the gelling characteristics yes have to do with bleaching and tip treatment, but also vary most with the harvest. All the brush makers seemed to have gelling knots at the same time and most seem to be lacking gelling characteristics lately.

Very interesting.
I wouldn't have thought any natural hair could gel and that it was purely an outcome of treating the hair but there you go.

I have a Frank Shaving Manchurian finest which is fantastic. The hair seems stiffer than others (but splay is great as is lather release). It's untreated so I agree there is definitely a difference in region/harvest.

 

[Sharp_Obsession]

Very interesting.
I wouldn't have thought any natural hair could gel and that it was purely an outcome of treating the hair but there you go.

I have a Frank Shaving Manchurian finest which is fantastic. The hair seems stiffer than others (but splay is great as is lather release). It's untreated so I agree there is definitely a difference in region/harvest.

Oh, I agree with you, I definitely believe the gelling is due to treatment. I'm just saying the same treatment may make one batch gel and other batches may not. I'm sure you can over-treat to force gelling, but most don't want to decrease the longevity of the brush to over-treat.

 

[izzybackyet462]

Very glad I stumbled on this thread. I ordered the Stirling Finest Badger just before seeing this thread. After reading this - I'm very excited for it to arrive! Sounds like it's a great brush.

 

[Schnitzel52]

I sure like mine.
I hope you do too.
I shaved with mine yesterday with Schaffmilch.
A very nice lather.
Good luck!

 

[Macfrommichigan]

Very glad I stumbled on this thread. I ordered the Stirling Finest Badger just before seeing this thread. After reading this - I'm very excited for it to arrive! Sounds like it's a great brush.

May it be the brush of your dreams!

 

[Schnitzel52]

Let us know about your experience.

 

[Graydog]

Some like chocolate and some like vanilla
For my face I prefer a little denser knot with a nice splay but backbone is important to me too.
And what the best thing about all the different
Brushes is that we all have a choice.

 

[gigetto]

Some cheap Badger are good as expensive precious handle exotic...

 

[Timeclo]

Stirling Finest is one of the best badger brushes that I have. It's not too dense and it gives a good scrub while staying soft. I can't compare it to high end badger as I have not used them but at least for me, I'm completely satisfied with the Stirling Finest.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Here are three Stirling badgers...

It occurred to me to mention that not all Stirling brushes are the same.

These are the Stirling brushes I use. The butterscotch (looks orange to me) fan feels different to me than the marble handled fan. I love the marble handle, just not its knot. I much prefer the knot on the butterscotch handled fan, but couldn't tell you why. My favorite Stirling is the ivory handled brush.

I also prefer the knots on my Yaqi two bands to the Stirling butterscotch.

I have read Yaqi makes the Stirling brushes. I've read (and believe) Stirling finest is the same as Yaqi two band. Why the differences between the various knots? I don't know. Density? Different lots of badger? Different years for badger hair harvest? Your guess is probably better than mine.

Of my Stirling and Yaqi brushes, this ivory is my current favorite. It has a larger knot size than the other two Stirlings and my Yaqi brushes, and it is softer, and less dense. Generally I like dense knots, but this one has enough backbone and scrub to suit me. I think the softness is sometimes very appealing.

Don't get me wrong here. There's not a lot of difference in my view between my Yaqi two bands and my Stirling finest brushes (except perhaps for the soft ivory handled Stirling). There are subtle but meaningful to me differences. None are brushes I wouldn't recommend for someone else because I think they're all good brushes and you might love a brush I do not prefer. I've had no trouble or shedding with any of my Stirling or Yaqi badgers, but they're not identical.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[allyourbasearebelongtous]

i need to get my hands on a plisson though. and a simpson. and a marfin. and a kent. and this gold leaf/wood/resin handle

probably not. maybe just one of them.

 

[MrSmith83]

Having bought and used north of 50 brushes I came to the same conclusion as most: for pure function a cheap but good boar or synthetic is as an effective lather making tool as an €800 Plisson. Luxury is a different matter, and difficult to really quantify.

 

[gigetto]

A luxury Brush is an edonistic Object, better but not proportionally with the price of an insignificant cost Boar Brisle that you can use happily for years.

 

[naughtilus]

All badger hair is chemically treated, but the tips on particular knots get heavily bleached to curl, making them hook and "gel". Otherwise a healthy bristle is like spear and will puncture your skin if you push it against your face. This bleaching weakens and damages the hair protein and the tips will break with heavy use like face lathering with splaying and swirling.

When you order the gel tip knots from Shavemac or Chinese suppliers, you can specify how much treatment you want on the tips.

Simpsons Best grade seems to have no processing except sterilization. You even get brown muck coming off during first couple of uses (brown lather). Very tough and healthy hair.