anyone here a plumber? need help
- Thread starter gaseousclay
- Start date
Does the water run when you turn on your outside hose bibs?
Not sure why you have two valves, unless you guys living far from the equator have two valves expressly for preventing outside pipe freezing.
You can turn the valves off and on with no problems usually and it won't muck up anything as long as the valves are in good working order. If they haven't been touched in years you might want to exercise caution.
However if you are like Tim the Toolman Taylor, or Dr. Huxtable, a test by a reputable plumber might be good peace of mind.
Not sure why you have two valves, unless you guys living far from the equator have two valves expressly for preventing outside pipe freezing.
You can turn the valves off and on with no problems usually and it won't muck up anything as long as the valves are in good working order. If they haven't been touched in years you might want to exercise caution.
However if you are like Tim the Toolman Taylor, or Dr. Huxtable, a test by a reputable plumber might be good peace of mind.
I think the right side is the main shut off, the black thing in the middle is your meter and the two left are secondary cut offs. Is there a dial/countrr on the thing in the middle?
The 2 valves are for replacing the meter, the valve on the house side stops any water from coming back after you break the line open. If you get the work done the plumber should take out all that galvi pipe
Why don't you get some heat tape made for keeping pipes from freezing? Wrap it around the pipe and plug it in. They use that under mobile homes to prevent pipe freezing.
A good stocked hardware store near a trailer park will have it.
Edit. Misread the post. I thought he was worried about inside pipes freezing. Heat tape won't work.
A good stocked hardware store near a trailer park will have it.
Edit. Misread the post. I thought he was worried about inside pipes freezing. Heat tape won't work.
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I'm guessing that the center valve shuts off what ever is on the other side of the wall . . . if that's an outside wall, then that is your hose feed.
When pipes freeze, the damage that occurs is usually from the linear expansion creating more pressure than the pipe can handle, splitting it somewhere between the actual freeze and the end of the line. Once split, the pressure is relieved, and then when it thaws out you've got a big leak!
First of all, check the hose faucet to see if there has been a freeze yet. Freezing does not automatically indicate a problem, however. In either case, simply turn the valve off inside, and open the hose faucet outside - leave it open all winter. Any water that remains in the pipe between the shut-off and the faucet may freeze, but will not cause any damage as long as the outside faucet is open to relieve the expansion pressure.
I'm guessing that the actual amount of pipe exposed to an unheated area is very short if the hose bib is right on the other side of the wall . . . there is probably no pipe exposed to wrap with heat tape.
When pipes freeze, the damage that occurs is usually from the linear expansion creating more pressure than the pipe can handle, splitting it somewhere between the actual freeze and the end of the line. Once split, the pressure is relieved, and then when it thaws out you've got a big leak!
First of all, check the hose faucet to see if there has been a freeze yet. Freezing does not automatically indicate a problem, however. In either case, simply turn the valve off inside, and open the hose faucet outside - leave it open all winter. Any water that remains in the pipe between the shut-off and the faucet may freeze, but will not cause any damage as long as the outside faucet is open to relieve the expansion pressure.
I'm guessing that the actual amount of pipe exposed to an unheated area is very short if the hose bib is right on the other side of the wall . . . there is probably no pipe exposed to wrap with heat tape.
- Thread starter
- #7
the black object is a dial/counter of sorts - it's says 'cubic feet' and has the numbers 0 through -9. it's currently at 0. so if I turned the dial on the right that'll turn off all the water in my house, correct? should I turn the middle dial to cut off water going to the hose outside? the middle dial closest to the piping in the wall does lead outside, so i'm assuming this is the correct one. I checked the outside hose and there is indeed ice running down it. I have one of those dual hose adapters on the outside faucet with one side closed and the other side open. my wife called her step-dad and asked him and he said to turn the oval dial on the right, but if that's the main water cut-off for the entire house I don't want to go that route...I just want to cut off water to the hose outside.
What are the temperatures (lows for the day)? I have lived in areas that have had temps of -40 and worse (and C or F does not matter at that stage!) and still have never had a problem with frozen or burst pipes . I am assuming the dwelling/building is insulated and has heating like a normal house in a cold weather area, or is it just a winter cabin or similar?
Close the middle valve. If it hasn't be exercised for some time then you might want to turn it off and on in 1/4 turn increments. Once that is done simply open the lawn service outside to double check that the water is off.
I have found those types of valves are prone to stopping working. You should open and close all those valves at least once or twice a year, or you may find an even bigger problem that they do not move at all (if that is not the case already).
It appears that the center valve will shut off whatever is on the other side of the wall, and only what is on the other side of the wall as previously stated by Bbrad. Have you investigated to see what is there?
It is clear you have done a fair amount of research about this issue and it is very worrisome. As a plumber who has been winterizing homes for years I would recommend you hire a plumber. One of the things I learned in my career is that I am a good plumber but that doesn't make me a good roofer. Here are a few points to consider.
1. Most plumbers offer a winterizing guarantee, that should anything break they will fix it for free.
2. Most companies that offer winterizing do it at a lower rate to bring in new customers. This worked well for me. If I winterized their house I usually got the call for any other issues.
3. Get to know your plumber and be nice. I've seen guys run to jobs just because they gave them a cup of coffee and were nice.
4. Your most likely going to get a wealth of knowledge by talking to him for 10-15 minutes about any other issues or concerns you have about the house plumbing.
5. If they can't show you their personal plumbing license, ask them to leave. You're paying journeyman rate, make sure you get a journeyman or master plumber. I love getting carded.
6. In my experience winterizing pricing goes somewhat like this.
a. Very Expensive- They usually don't do much wintering.
b. Moderate price- They do a good amount of winterizing.
c. Cheap- They are hacks with no license or insurance.
I hope this helps you.
1. Most plumbers offer a winterizing guarantee, that should anything break they will fix it for free.
2. Most companies that offer winterizing do it at a lower rate to bring in new customers. This worked well for me. If I winterized their house I usually got the call for any other issues.
3. Get to know your plumber and be nice. I've seen guys run to jobs just because they gave them a cup of coffee and were nice.
4. Your most likely going to get a wealth of knowledge by talking to him for 10-15 minutes about any other issues or concerns you have about the house plumbing.
5. If they can't show you their personal plumbing license, ask them to leave. You're paying journeyman rate, make sure you get a journeyman or master plumber. I love getting carded.
6. In my experience winterizing pricing goes somewhat like this.
a. Very Expensive- They usually don't do much wintering.
b. Moderate price- They do a good amount of winterizing.
c. Cheap- They are hacks with no license or insurance.
I hope this helps you.
It looks like a picture of your water main to me.
There is usually a valve inside the building on the line that runs out to the exterior. Assuming it is in the basement, then look at the wall inside the house to see the pipe that goes to the hose outside. There would normally be a valve a few feet from the exterior wall inside the house.
Open the spigot outside, come inside and close the valve closest to the wall on the pipe that feed the exterior spigot. Go back outside and confirm the water is not running. Leave the valve open outside. Put your hose up for the winter in the garage or in the basement. If it's not drained, leave it to drain in a utility tub.
Most older homes have numerous shut off valves along all the pipes crisscrossing the basement along the floor joists. One for the kitchen, one for the bathroom, one for the laundry room, etc.. Through trial and error and a rough idea of which pipe leads to which part of your house, you should be able to figure out which valve you need to shut.
It's good to know for general purposes in case you need to shut off water for other plumping projects. For instance if you will be putting in a new sink fixture, you'd want to shut off the hot and cold lines feeding that area of the house.
There is usually a valve inside the building on the line that runs out to the exterior. Assuming it is in the basement, then look at the wall inside the house to see the pipe that goes to the hose outside. There would normally be a valve a few feet from the exterior wall inside the house.
Open the spigot outside, come inside and close the valve closest to the wall on the pipe that feed the exterior spigot. Go back outside and confirm the water is not running. Leave the valve open outside. Put your hose up for the winter in the garage or in the basement. If it's not drained, leave it to drain in a utility tub.
Most older homes have numerous shut off valves along all the pipes crisscrossing the basement along the floor joists. One for the kitchen, one for the bathroom, one for the laundry room, etc.. Through trial and error and a rough idea of which pipe leads to which part of your house, you should be able to figure out which valve you need to shut.
It's good to know for general purposes in case you need to shut off water for other plumping projects. For instance if you will be putting in a new sink fixture, you'd want to shut off the hot and cold lines feeding that area of the house.
I am not plumber, but working for a General Contractor remodeling and repairing homes, kitchens and bathrooms, I have had my share of screw ups trying to turn off stuck main valves, angle valves and toilet water supply valves LOL. If a valve I need to shut off doesn't turn I don't get pipe wrench from the truck, I call our Plumber.
If you read through all the comments it seems there is a concensus that one of the two left side valves will do the job you want. I would see how well the valves move before wantonly spinning them. I have been in a few situations where a previously sound valve starts to drip water after messing with it. If you can easily turn the valves and it feels nice and smooth with a moderate drag on it, it MIGHT be ok. The valves that broke on me were difficult to turn, had a gritty feeling when turning, and would show moisture around the stem.
So I would do it early in the morning so you can call a plumber if need be. In all likelyhood you will be able to turn the darn thing with no drama, but it never hurts to be overly cautious and paranoid when it comes to plumbing and electricity.
GOOD LUCK!!
It's the middle one. If you look you'll see an arrow on the valve for flow direction. I'm not a plumber, but work for a water department. We do this stuff all the time.
The other valves are for changing the meter. Work the valve back and forth. It might be stuck. When you get it closed, turn on the outside valve to drain any water out. If water is still in that part of the system it could still freeze.
If you decide to have a plumber replace the galvanized contact your water department. They have a seal on the meter and a remote wire. They will have to reseal the meter.
I also recommend ball valves
The other valves are for changing the meter. Work the valve back and forth. It might be stuck. When you get it closed, turn on the outside valve to drain any water out. If water is still in that part of the system it could still freeze.
If you decide to have a plumber replace the galvanized contact your water department. They have a seal on the meter and a remote wire. They will have to reseal the meter.
I also recommend ball valves
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- Thread starter
- #16
thanks for the advice, everyone. I contacted a plumber lastnight and hope to get someone out this afternoon.
@crunchthetroll, there is indeed an arrow pointing to the right underneath the middle valve, you can see it in the picture. assuming I can get the plumber to come to my house today, i'm going to let him see what my options are instead of doing it myself.
for what it's worth, there are a few things I didn't mention about my home. 1) we have no basement. the house was built in the 50's and is probably the only one in the neighborhood without a basement -- just a rambler style home on a concrete slab. 2) the hose is still attached to the spigot outside and is frozen solid. I tried to take it off this summer but couldn't manage it...it's on pretty tight. I'm gonna wait for the plumber to take a look so he can assess everything and determine what course of action I should take. 3) I've lived in this house now for 4 yrs now and have always left the hose attached to the spigot outside. stupid, I know
since I have a baby on the way I decided I didn't want to find myself (or my wife) standing in 3 inches of water. i'd rather spend hundreds now than thousands later.
@crunchthetroll, there is indeed an arrow pointing to the right underneath the middle valve, you can see it in the picture. assuming I can get the plumber to come to my house today, i'm going to let him see what my options are instead of doing it myself.
for what it's worth, there are a few things I didn't mention about my home. 1) we have no basement. the house was built in the 50's and is probably the only one in the neighborhood without a basement -- just a rambler style home on a concrete slab. 2) the hose is still attached to the spigot outside and is frozen solid. I tried to take it off this summer but couldn't manage it...it's on pretty tight. I'm gonna wait for the plumber to take a look so he can assess everything and determine what course of action I should take. 3) I've lived in this house now for 4 yrs now and have always left the hose attached to the spigot outside. stupid, I know
since I have a baby on the way I decided I didn't want to find myself (or my wife) standing in 3 inches of water. i'd rather spend hundreds now than thousands later.
You did the right thing by calling a plumber. Follow Cedar's advice and I think you'll be fine.
Some things just need to be handled by those who have the knoeledge, skill and experience.
Some things just need to be handled by those who have the knoeledge, skill and experience.
If you close the valve to the outside faucet, you can actually make it *more* likely to burst unless you open the faucet. You do not want water trapped between 2 closed valves and have it freeze. If the pipe is only closed at one end, the water can expand back up the pipe.
That shutoff valve is there so you can still use the outside faucet in the winter if you want to, by turning off and draining that short line. If you don't care about using that, it might be safer to just let it freeze in a controlled manner.
You might want to put a 40W lightbulb in there by that meter to keep it from freezing. Even better would be a 100W bulb and a thermostat to turn it on when it gets below 40.
That shutoff valve is there so you can still use the outside faucet in the winter if you want to, by turning off and draining that short line. If you don't care about using that, it might be safer to just let it freeze in a controlled manner.
You might want to put a 40W lightbulb in there by that meter to keep it from freezing. Even better would be a 100W bulb and a thermostat to turn it on when it gets below 40.
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The above is good advice and should be taken.
If you have a standard bib end faucet on the outside (which is what it looks like from your inside picture) ask your plumber about putting on a frost proof faucet. Those are long/deep faucets with the valve on the inside of the house. You should still use the supply shut off valve and drain during winter but you can use the faucet late fall and early spring without worrying about it freezing should you get a cold snap early/late in the year that you are not prepared for.
Either way you must remove any hoses and after you have your outside shut off valve turned off, open the faucet to let it drain back to the shut off valve, then make sure you CLOSE the faucet after it has drained to keep cold air from coming back inside to your shut off valve and freezing there.
Here is what a modern frost proof faucet looks like
If you're the forgetful type and might leave a hose attached to the faucet in the winter, do not use a freeze-proof faucet. Water will get trapped between the ice plug in the hose and the valve seat in the wall and the valve will split inside the wall, past the valve seat. Everything is fine until next spring when you turn the faucet on, and it springs a big leak inside the wall and you don't know about it until after it has done a lot of damage.
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