I always did a single pass until I started using s DE again and read about it online. Never got a BBS shave until then either. Barbers have always done a two pass.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Am I the only one who can only get a couple shaves out of a blade?
- Thread starter Big_Tex
- Start date
I always did a single pass until I started using s DE again and read about it online. Never got a BBS shave until then either. Barbers have always done a two pass.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Modern stainless razor steels hold an edge quite a bit longer than plain carbon steel, often by an order of magnitude. Gillette had a patent for stainless steel blades for over a decade before they were forced to start selling them by Wilkinson and Schick in the early 60's, they didn't want to have to put up with expected sales loss when blades lasted five or ten times as long.
You certainly do not need to do multiple passes, but it can help, especially if you have a particularly tough beard, sensitive face, or both like I have. There is no way I can do ATG on the first pass, even with a brand new Feather blade. The blade will pull more than I can tolerate. If I do a WTG pass, I can follow up with a ATG pass.
Here's how I heard it from a fellow who had connections with Gillette brass back in the day. First of all Gillette's own research showed less of a difference in longevity between blade types but it was based on proper and time consuming care of carbon blades after the shave. Reality was no one was doing that. Again Gillettes research showed carbon blades to be sharper and give a better shave and they believed the public would favor that over the smaller difference they saw in duration. Reality was no one bothered with an alcohol bath for the blade after each shave so the longevity was a more heavily weighted factor than they thought.
as to blade life for me, I only use vintage blades now. When I used current models I would get 3 to 4 shaves a blade, not even one from a Feather. Now I get 10, 14 or 30 per blade depending on what I'm using.
I would think something like 19C27 razor steel would be much longer lasting than the stainless alloys Gillette was working with in the late 50's. Even 440C stainless would have been very esoteric and cutting edge (pun intended) at the time, and yes, you get a better edge on carbon steel than on 440C.
This is not true anymore -- modern steels like 19C27 are MUCH more abrasion resistant than carbon steel (even O1, "chrome vanadium" steel commonly found in plane blades and such things), and will take an equally sharp edge. Blades labeled "swedish razor steel" are very likely 19C27, I suspect it's actually the alloy Wilkinson and "a swedish steel company" worked out in the early 60's specifically for stainless razor blades. Very fine and very hard carbides (chromium rather than iron) and great hardening capability, up to RC 63 is usable in knives, although typically it's RC 60 or so.
I also suspect that diamond like coatings are nearly universal, and make the blades even harder than platinum or tungsten coatings do -- and many blades have both or all three.
It would be fun to do a blind test to see if vintage stainless blades are indeed better that carbon or modern blades -- there is the phenomenon of meeting your own expectations, and if you think a blade is inferior you will find it to pull, go dull quickly, and be uncomfortable when it really doesn't shave than much differently than one of the "mythical" vintage or carbon steel blades.
I've got some carbon blades, I'll be trying them someday, but don't see any point in tossing any of my current blades or starting another one that will take a lot of care to keep going. Maybe for the "one blade in February" challenge -- if carbon steel blades indeed last as long as stainless by and large, I'll surely be able to get 28 shaves on one.
This is not true anymore -- modern steels like 19C27 are MUCH more abrasion resistant than carbon steel (even O1, "chrome vanadium" steel commonly found in plane blades and such things), and will take an equally sharp edge. Blades labeled "swedish razor steel" are very likely 19C27, I suspect it's actually the alloy Wilkinson and "a swedish steel company" worked out in the early 60's specifically for stainless razor blades. Very fine and very hard carbides (chromium rather than iron) and great hardening capability, up to RC 63 is usable in knives, although typically it's RC 60 or so.
I also suspect that diamond like coatings are nearly universal, and make the blades even harder than platinum or tungsten coatings do -- and many blades have both or all three.
It would be fun to do a blind test to see if vintage stainless blades are indeed better that carbon or modern blades -- there is the phenomenon of meeting your own expectations, and if you think a blade is inferior you will find it to pull, go dull quickly, and be uncomfortable when it really doesn't shave than much differently than one of the "mythical" vintage or carbon steel blades.
I've got some carbon blades, I'll be trying them someday, but don't see any point in tossing any of my current blades or starting another one that will take a lot of care to keep going. Maybe for the "one blade in February" challenge -- if carbon steel blades indeed last as long as stainless by and large, I'll surely be able to get 28 shaves on one.
Just spent a few minutes and looked it up, razors blades are typically 13C26 from Sandvic, specifically designed for razor blade use with very fine carbides and excellent edge characteristics.
Probably the stainless used by all blade manufacturers, it's supplied in proper finish with partially ground edges, to be punched and final ground, polished, and coated by the blade manufacturer.
Final edge grind, polish, and coatings are very likely the only difference between modern razor blades. I don't know if Personna 74 blades were a different alloy or just tungsten coated -- I suspect the latter.
Probably the stainless used by all blade manufacturers, it's supplied in proper finish with partially ground edges, to be punched and final ground, polished, and coated by the blade manufacturer.
Final edge grind, polish, and coatings are very likely the only difference between modern razor blades. I don't know if Personna 74 blades were a different alloy or just tungsten coated -- I suspect the latter.
I'm with you sir, I'm in my sixties, don't have a thick growth but it pretty dam tough, like copper wire, I've been told that facial hair get's tougher as you age, take a look at a picture of Willie Nelson for example, his facial hair looks tough, fact is I get two, maybe three shaves out of any blade .. that's it ... I can stretch the blades for more life but much more extra effort and time is needed .. for the dirt cheap price of blades it just not worth the hassle
Your comment about meeting expectations may be correct however when I first used vintage blades I had no expectations. I had not heard or read one thing about them, I just noticed, and since the beginning I've kept a daily log of all aspects of my shaves, I just noticed smoother, closer shaves and a hell of a lot more of them.
"a hell of a lot more" as in six rather than three or forty rather than 5, inquiring minds want to know! I'm averaging 40 shaves per blade at the moment on modern blades....
Carbon steel has finer carbides that say 13C26 or similar stainless steels -- the only suitable stainless for razor blades -- but will not hold that edge as long, it chips too badly when hardened to the same condition as the stainless. Reportedly does not shave as nicely either, but I've not tried any yet.
Carbon steel has finer carbides that say 13C26 or similar stainless steels -- the only suitable stainless for razor blades -- but will not hold that edge as long, it chips too badly when hardened to the same condition as the stainless. Reportedly does not shave as nicely either, but I've not tried any yet.
most blades only give me 3 maybe 4 if i'm lucky, the only one's that go passed that are polsilvers and nacet's, get around 14-15 shaves with those. Not exactly sure why, but hey i'm not complaining.
Nope. So I solved the problem by just using a fresh blade each time. I was using about 5-6 different blades with my rotation and just gave up trying to figure out which blade could give me (on a regular basis) a great 3 pass x 2.
I payed 8 cents per blade and get 8 shaves.
I've never used a blade where I can't go for over 10 shaves. That's the minimum, I usually get around 15 from most of them. And it's not the razor, as I've tried the same in different razors, no difference.
I think that it's mostly a placebo effect. You might feel a bit of a tug because of a bad angle, and you blame the blade right away.
That’s the key: ANGLE - shallow vs. steep
Most people can get 1-4 shaves and bin their blade using a shallow angle and a reasonably sharp blade. On the final shave the blade starts to tug because it’s actually gotten dull; the blade edge has literally been rounded off from the shaving angle.
If you took a survey or observed the people who typically get 10+ shaves per blade you’d notice one thing they consistently do: shave with a steep angle. There are other things that fellow Excalibur folks do - such as maintaining a rigid wrist while shaving, shaving in nibbles or bites rather than strokes, etc., but no part of the technique is as important as a steep (within reason) angle.
No amount of blade testing or trials will yield longevity from any blade that is used in a shallow angle, scraping across the face.
Imagine whittling two edges of a board with two brand new razor knives - one held steeply away from perpendicular and one held almost exactly perpendicular; flipped to wear the edges evenly and only shaving off a couple hairs width off of either side. You might be able to do a 3-4 boards with the perpendicular razor that has become duller than a butter knife in the process, but the steep razor will keep its edge and keep cutting until the blade literally breaks apart.
It’s sort of opening a can of worms, but it’s definitely something to consciously consider the next time you put a new blade in.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I had a few times where I was able to "push" a modern blade to 7 shaves before I noticed degradation. As a matter of fact, the tops in longevity among them was one of the least expensive modern blades. I was able to routinely get double digits from it. Although never top notch results to begin with it showed no difference in the shave results until 11, 12 or even 13. Lord Cools. I never get less than two weeks of top, I mean top, quality results out of every one of my vintage models but one. That one shows no decline after 30 and I just change it because my attention span has reached it's limit and I just want something different. Also, unlike modern blades there's never a "dud". Quality control issue I'd guess. As I've said before, I had no preconceptions about vintage blades to begin with and it was just a novelty. In the beginning.
This generalisation does not hold true and many that shave at a shallow or neutral angle get double figure shaves from a blade.
I don't understand the term "scraping across the face". There is less scraping action from a shallow angle.
I have a feeling that we're both talking about the same thing and you're calling it the opposite.
Steep = handle pointed away - "riding the cap". Not always that extreme, but you know what I mean.
Shallow = handle parallel to face (or less)
If somebody is getting longevity in spite of using the razor perpendicular to the face there has to be some other factors, such as light facial hair, in play. More power to you if that works for you, but shallow angles are literally working against the blade.
Let he who is without sin cast the first rock, and we shall smoketh it
AimlessWanderer
Remember to forget me!
I've only started shaving again less than a month ago, so I haven't expired a blade yet. Despite this I've signed up for the Excaliber club already, because I know I'll get good blade life. I use the full working range of angles from a razor. Bear in mind that mild razors hardly have any range at all, so the arguement is null and void there. Your angle is either right or wrong, and you don't get a choice of favouring different angles unless you pick a different mild razor with a different set angle.
Where there is a range of angles available to me, I will use them all. For the first two passes I'll happily use any angle so lost as the blade is dominant. On final passes, particularly if chasing BBS, I will go steep and shallow depending on where about on the face I am, and which manouvre I'm pulling out of the bag to eradicate the hairs that don't want to yield to conventional strokes.
Where there is a range of angles available to me, I will use them all. For the first two passes I'll happily use any angle so lost as the blade is dominant. On final passes, particularly if chasing BBS, I will go steep and shallow depending on where about on the face I am, and which manouvre I'm pulling out of the bag to eradicate the hairs that don't want to yield to conventional strokes.
