Advice needed - perhaps this is not for me?

[RhythmicStudy]

Hi,

New to the forums, but been on here a couple of times before to do some research.

Main reason I wanted to check in, is because straight razor shaving doesn't seem to be working for me. I know no other straight razor shavers in person, nor do I have any store in my area that know about them. So I'm hoping to talk to some people here to see what's up!

It's a bit of a long story, but I've been reading around here and it seems y'all aren't shy of those. So here goes.

My background
I bought my DOVO Best Quality last year because:

- I wanted cleaner shaves than I got with my DE
- I was sick of throwing good steel in the trash
- (bonus) I like being very particular to get the best out of niche things in my existing hobbies (specialty coffee, vintage audio), so I figured this'd fit

Those reasons still apply, and I am still hoping to make SR shaving work for me.

My experience so far
It's been almost a year of a lot of practicing. Some cuts here and there, but I felt that after a while my technique was decent. However, I never got the real clean shave that I wanted. The easy parts (cheeks, below the nose) are fine, but the areas where the hairs are more stubborn (chin, neck) I just cannot get the blade through. Tugging is an understatement, I've learned over time to just stop and finish up with my DE to avoid irritation or cuts (defeating the point of the SR, IMO).

Things I tried
1. Shaving techniques, pre-shave, etc.
This has been useful, learning about how hairs and skin react to lather, moisture, blade direction, temperature, etc. I've actually noticed a lot of improvements with my DE, I'm actually in a great place with that right now. So I suspect this is not the problem.

2. Honing
I thought it might be I had messed up the blade somehow (maybe stropping or bad handling), so wanted to have my blade re-honed. I could not find a place near me that could do it, and wanted to take up the challenge of honing because I have a passion for kitchen knives as well (different technique, I know). Had some money to spend, so I bought a 1000K, a 4000K and a 10000K. Figured I could use the first and maybe the second for my kitchen knives as well. But... all the YouTube tutorials and B&B threads couldn't get me to really get the blade sharp anymore. I'm not a very good learner by video (let alone forum threads), and especially in this craft where there is a lot of "feel" alongside science at work.

3. Technique
Ultimately I did find a place in my area that has a honing service. They have an external company (doesn't do direct to consumer work) do it, they specialise in kitchen knives but apparently razors as well. So I got it honed there. Did feel ripped off because it cost almost a year's worth of DE razors. But all for the long time goal right?
Admittedly, it is sharper than I ever got it myself, testing against some loose hairs. However, I still have all the same problems. Halfway through my first shave I just gave up and continued with the DE. Cheeks went OK but even there some thin hairs remained. On the chin it kept tugging, I tried different angles, using more lather, but not much use. So perhaps my technique is the problem?

Bottom line
My biggest problem is: I don't know. I can't tell whether the company actually honed my razor well, or whether I need to change my technique. I'd like to hone my own razors, I even have the stones. But even if I got through enough practice to do it well, I don't know whether I'd recognise that I did, because I'm not even sure whether I can get a good shave with it.

Know you know my life's story. Maybe someone here has some advice! Or just personal experiences to share I could relate to. Or just say Hi back, that's fine. Cheers

 

[Multum in parvo]

Hi,

New to the forums, but been on here a couple of times before to do some research.

Main reason I wanted to check in, is because straight razor shaving doesn't seem to be working for me. I know no other straight razor shavers in person, nor do I have any store in my area that know about them. So I'm hoping to talk to some people here to see what's up!

It's a bit of a long story, but I've been reading around here and it seems y'all aren't shy of those. So here goes.

My background
I bought my DOVO Best Quality last year because:

- I wanted cleaner shaves than I got with my DE
- I was sick of throwing good steel in the trash
- (bonus) I like being very particular to get the best out of niche things in my existing hobbies (specialty coffee, vintage audio), so I figured this'd fit

Those reasons still apply, and I am still hoping to make SR shaving work for me.

My experience so far
It's been almost a year of a lot of practicing. Some cuts here and there, but I felt that after a while my technique was decent. However, I never got the real clean shave that I wanted. The easy parts (cheeks, below the nose) are fine, but the areas where the hairs are more stubborn (chin, neck) I just cannot get the blade through. Tugging is an understatement, I've learned over time to just stop and finish up with my DE to avoid irritation or cuts (defeating the point of the SR, IMO).

Things I tried
1. Shaving techniques, pre-shave, etc.
This has been useful, learning about how hairs and skin react to lather, moisture, blade direction, temperature, etc. I've actually noticed a lot of improvements with my DE, I'm actually in a great place with that right now. So I suspect this is not the problem.

2. Honing
I thought it might be I had messed up the blade somehow (maybe stropping or bad handling), so wanted to have my blade re-honed. I could not find a place near me that could do it, and wanted to take up the challenge of honing because I have a passion for kitchen knives as well (different technique, I know). Had some money to spend, so I bought a 1000K, a 4000K and a 10000K. Figured I could use the first and maybe the second for my kitchen knives as well. But... all the YouTube tutorials and B&B threads couldn't get me to really get the blade sharp anymore. I'm not a very good learner by video (let alone forum threads), and especially in this craft where there is a lot of "feel" alongside science at work.

3. Technique
Ultimately I did find a place in my area that has a honing service. They have an external company (doesn't do direct to consumer work) do it, they specialise in kitchen knives but apparently razors as well. So I got it honed there. Did feel ripped off because it cost almost a year's worth of DE razors. But all for the long time goal right?
Admittedly, it is sharper than I ever got it myself, testing against some loose hairs. However, I still have all the same problems. Halfway through my first shave I just gave up and continued with the DE. Cheeks went OK but even there some thin hairs remained. On the chin it kept tugging, I tried different angles, using more lather, but not much use. So perhaps my technique is the problem?

Bottom line
My biggest problem is: I don't know. I can't tell whether the company actually honed my razor well, or whether I need to change my technique. I'd like to hone my own razors, I even have the stones. But even if I got through enough practice to do it well, I don't know whether I'd recognise that I did, because I'm not even sure whether I can get a good shave with it.

Know you know my life's story. Maybe someone here has some advice! Or just personal experiences to share I could relate to. Or just say Hi back, that's fine. Cheers

I’m sure you will get answers here as well but there is even a niche in the niche

Straight Razor Shave Clinic

New to shaving with a straight razor? Want feedback on your technique? Feel free to ask all your questions here

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[silverlifter]

Welcome! Trying to learn with a razor that is not truly shave ready is a frustrating experience. It would almost certainly not have been shave ready from the factory, so you were on the back foot from the start. Sending it to a place that hones knives would have made the edge worse, I'm sorry to say.

The good news is that, with the amount of shaves you have under your belt, you can expect a big jump in efficiency with a known good edge.

There is a global community of straight shavers that can get you back on track. Take a look at this page, or just let us know where you are and someone will be able to help.

Honemeister

IntroductionThis page is part of Joel's Interactive Guide to Straight Razor Shaving. This list is intended to list all the active Honemeisters by country and region. The list was

www.badgerandblade.com

In the meantime, maybe consider picking up a beater razor to continue to learn how to hone on.

Good luck! You are a lot further down the path than it feels like.

 

[Dave himself]

Hi and welcome to B&B. I know nothing about straights. But there are a lot of gents here with lot of knowledge on straight razors and are more than willing to help.

 

[RhythmicStudy]

Welcome! Trying to learn with a razor that is not truly shave ready is a frustrating experience. It would almost certainly not have been shave ready from the factory, so you were on the back foot from the start. Sending it to a place that hones knives would have made the edge worse, I'm sorry to say.

The good news is that, with the amount of shaves you have under your belt, you can expect a big jump in efficiency with a known good edge.

There is a global community of straight shavers that can get you back on track. Take a look at this page, or just let us know where you are and someone will be able to help.

Honemeister

IntroductionThis page is part of Joel's Interactive Guide to Straight Razor Shaving. This list is intended to list all the active Honemeisters by country and region. The list was

www.badgerandblade.com

In the meantime, maybe consider picking up a beater razor to continue to learn how to hone on.

Good luck! You are a lot further down the path than it feels like.

Thanks! I don't often see old razors around our second hand websites or markets here, but I suppose I will be more willing to experiment on something like that than on the one I actually want to keep using.

Not giving up yet

 

[Jens]

Thanks! I don't often see old razors around our second hand websites or markets here, but I suppose I will be more willing to experiment on something like that than on the one I actually want to keep using.

The thing is, if you practice honing on a mediocre piece of steel, it's harder for you to know when you did a good honing job. I had three Gold Dollars (Chinese Cheap'os) taken to "shave ready" by an hone master ... But There is just something about God Dollars that does not jive with my skin, at all.
The Dovo Best Quality that you have on the other hand, is actually a good knife, for a relatively low price. I have a couple of those myself, which I use as my "practice knives" for honing (and shaving).

My process has been somewhat similar to what you describe, though I have gotten my shaving technique with straights up to a level where I actually get very nice shaves (I shaved exclusively with straight razors for about three years) -- that is, as long as my knife is reasonably sharp.
Where I got stock, was the honing. Seeing that it takes me almost a full day of concentrated work to get one straight razor to be about as sharp as a Treet "Black Beauty" DE blade (that is, "smooth", but not terribly sharp), I have ended up putting the whole honing project (and so Straight razors) on a hold for the time being. I simply enjoy my shaves more with DE equipment, given the limited time I have overall for the hobby.
Like you, I have all the honing equipment, and a decent collections of knives too. When I find a convincing approach to improving my honing (and/or more time), I will likely take straight razors up again. For now, I simply don't have the time at hand which it takes for me to achieve enjoyable shaves with straight razors (that is, time for improving my honing). And I also enjoy DE shaving very much, so much to still learn here too.
In fact, one thing that straight razor shaving has taught me that I have taken back to DE shaving, is how enjoyable it can be to shave with not-so-sharp ("smooth") DE blades. The "Black Beauty" blades mentioned above, is one example. Many people think its a horrible blade, but after getting accustomed to, even learning to enjoy shaving with not-so-sharp straight razors, The Black Beauties give me a way to DE shave which is fairly similar. An acquired taste I guess, but I have learned to get lovely shaves out of them, and the experience has broadened my appreciation for a wider range of blades.

 

[cajunrph]

Welcome to the B&B.

Your problems is what’s keeping me from straight razors. I do realize you have to have the edge of most new SR professionally honed. And honing one at home is an acquired skill that takes time. Time is something I don’t have in abundance at the moment. Maybe I’ll try in retirement.

Don’t be frustrated. The world of DE wet shaving offers almost all the benefits of SR shaving. True you do throw away blades. But not to the extent a cartridge shaver does. DE blades are so small and I believe can be truly recycled. Unlike all the plastic we use daily which may or may not be recycled.

Best of luck in your adventure. If all else fails, your DE razor is there waiting to give you a BBS shave.

 

[gpjoe]

Thanks! I don't often see old razors around our second hand websites or markets here, but I suppose I will be more willing to experiment on something like that than on the one I actually want to keep using.

Not giving up yet

You didn't indicate where you are, but you can find practice razors on ebay for 15-20 bucks.

I'm learning also, and have picked up a few inexpensive vintage razors to try honing. I'm getting a bit better, but still have a ways to go. Here's a $15 ebay razor that I received a few days ago that I cleaned and "honed". I tried using it today and it removed whiskers but (like you) I'm still struggling with my SR technique.

Thankfully, I have been able to send some of my razors out to members here to get them honed, they have all come back to me sharper than I could get them (hair popping sharp) but I'm still trying to figure out how to use them properly to get the best possible shave.

Anyway, there are very helpful members in the Straight Razor forums that can help get you on the right track, and getting a true shave-ready razor is a great start.

 

[NickCutlip]

Welcome to the forum !!

 

[RhythmicStudy]

A big frustration I think was that, getting started, a lot of guides online will tell you that a SR from the factory is shave-ready. Whereas after I came on here, almost everyone seems to agree that it never is.

After reading your replies, this has motivated me though to get better at honing!

Welcome to the B&B.

Your problems is what’s keeping me from straight razors. I do realize you have to have the edge of most new SR professionally honed. And honing one at home is an acquired skill that takes time. Time is something I don’t have in abundance at the moment. Maybe I’ll try in retirement.

Don’t be frustrated. The world of DE wet shaving offers almost all the benefits of SR shaving. True you do throw away blades. But not to the extent a cartridge shaver does. DE blades are so small and I believe can be truly recycled. Unlike all the plastic we use daily which may or may not be recycled.

Best of luck in your adventure. If all else fails, your DE razor is there waiting to give you a BBS shave.

Thanks! While waiting for my SR to be honed, I actually found a new appreciation for the DE and now I feel completely OK just using it if I don't have the time or patience for the SR. I agree it's many steps above cartridge shavers in terms of sustainability, and much cleaner and more comfortable than the electric shaver I used before that.

You didn't indicate where you are, but you can find practice razors on ebay for 15-20 bucks.

I'm learning also, and have picked up a few inexpensive vintage razors to try honing. I'm getting a bit better, but still have a ways to go. Here's a $15 ebay razor that I received a few days ago that I cleaned and "honed". I tried using it today and it removed whiskers but (like you) I'm still struggling with my SR technique.

View attachment 1712767

Thankfully, I have been able to send some of my razors out to members here to get them honed, they have all come back to me sharper than I could get them (hair popping sharp) but I'm still trying to figure out how to use them properly to get the best possible shave.

Anyway, there are very helpful members in the Straight Razor forums that can help get you on the right track, and getting a true shave-ready razor is a great start.

I am in the Netherlands, we don't have Ebay but I did get in contact with someone on a similar local site to buy an old DOVO for 10 bucks. I didn't really think about checking on here if there were other people in my area, I will certainly do that! Seems like this forum is mostly US based, but you never know.

The thing is, if you practice honing on a mediocre piece of steel, it's harder for you to know when you did a good honing job. I had three Gold Dollars (Chinese Cheap'os) taken to "shave ready" by an hone master ... But There is just something about God Dollars that does not jive with my skin, at all.
The Dovo Best Quality that you have on the other hand, is actually a good knife, for a relatively low price. I have a couple of those myself, which I use as my "practice knives" for honing (and shaving).

My process has been somewhat similar to what you describe, though I have gotten my shaving technique with straights up to a level where I actually get very nice shaves (I shaved exclusively with straight razors for about three years) -- that is, as long as my knife is reasonably sharp.
Where I got stock, was the honing. Seeing that it takes me almost a full day of concentrated work to get one straight razor to be about as sharp as a Treet "Black Beauty" DE blade (that is, "smooth", but not terribly sharp), I have ended up putting the whole honing project (and so Straight razors) on a hold for the time being. I simply enjoy my shaves more with DE equipment, given the limited time I have overall for the hobby.
Like you, I have all the honing equipment, and a decent collections of knives too. When I find a convincing approach to improving my honing (and/or more time), I will likely take straight razors up again. For now, I simply don't have the time at hand which it takes for me to achieve enjoyable shaves with straight razors (that is, time for improving my honing). And I also enjoy DE shaving very much, so much to still learn here too.
In fact, one thing that straight razor shaving has taught me that I have taken back to DE shaving, is how enjoyable it can be to shave with not-so-sharp ("smooth") DE blades. The "Black Beauty" blades mentioned above, is one example. Many people think its a horrible blade, but after getting accustomed to, even learning to enjoy shaving with not-so-sharp straight razors, The Black Beauties give me a way to DE shave which is fairly similar. An acquired taste I guess, but I have learned to get lovely shaves out of them, and the experience has broadened my appreciation for a wider range of blades.

I think I am in a similar position. It's good to hear your perspective, and I also realise it's a hobby and it should be fun. If it's not, I'll just pick up the DE and use that for the time being.

For now, I've gotten in contact with someone to buy an old and damaged DOVO to practice on. I saw a couple of other ones from unknown brands (brand marks rusted or worn away), but I think with a DOVO I can at least trust that it's actual good steel to practice on.

Another thing I have to remind myself of, is that as long as the stones and blades are stored correctly, they can last the rest of my life. They will be there when I want to pick them up, and I'm sure that time will come.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

The main issue I would suspect is probably lack of reference. Since you don't know what the goal is, you have no idea where you are on the road and if you're going the right direction.
One approach you might not have on your radar at the moment which helped me a lot is starting with a Feather/Kai/IBC shavette-style razor. It is again a bunch of money you stick into the hobby, but there are a couple of advantages:

1. Consistency: The replaceable blades are very consistent and without a doubt shave-ready. This gives you peace of mind for some of the many parameters involved.
2. Reference: Resulting from the above is also a sense of how the blade should cut hair. Both loose and on your face. If you are ever unsure on if the honing of a straight is where it needs to be, you always have this fallback option to compare against.
3. Less maintenance: Maintenance is a big part of using straight razors and there are things that can go wrong. Taking that out to focus on just the shaving motions and routine can help to learn the individual challenges isolated from each other.

 

[ZeelandsRoem]

I just cannot get the blade through. Tugging is an understatement

A shave ready razor must cut hair effortlessly. If it tugs a bit but your beard prep, technique and stropping is okay, then the razor not being sharp is most likely the problem.

so I bought a 1000K, a 4000K and a 10000K

What kind of 1k, 4k and 10k stones did you buy? Can you share some details about those stones? Not all 1k are equal, same as not every 4k is the same and not every 10k is a good 10k.

I did find a place in my area that has a honing service. They have an external company (doesn't do direct to consumer work) do it, they specialise in kitchen knives but apparently razors as well

So I got it honed there

However, I still have all the same problems. Halfway through my first shave I just gave up

Unfortunately, those knife sharpening companies offering sharpening services do not know how to hone a razor. Unless the person doing the job is a straight razor shaver and hones its own razors, then likely they have no idea how to do it.

So perhaps my technique is the problem?

Maybe, maybe not. But if you hold the razor at a spine width or two with the skin and the razor does not cut well, then the razor is one of the problems.

I'd like to hone my own razors, I even have the stones.

I am in the Netherlands

Where in the Netherlands do you live, if you don't mind me asking? If you live close by, maybe you can come over one time, listen some music on vintage and neo equipment, talk about straight razor shaving, honing a razor or two, trying things out and figuring out why your honing was not okay.

By the way, we are the same age, but if you like classical rock, blues or jazz, then finding music which we both like will be really easy!

 

[Alum of Potash]

I agree that knowing your general location would be helpful. Always nice to be able to send things off to a local straight-razor honer who can put a good edge on things by way of a starting reference point. Even better to find one that you can sit in with for a honing session in-person. Also, a reliable honing sequence is important. 1000k, 4000k, 10,000k doesn't tell me much. Starting out from a factory-received Dovo, I would think that something like 10k would get me there, should the edge be lacking as received, dipping down to maybe 6k or a mid-range hone if absolutely needed. Technique in stropping is also important. A Dovo factory edge that might be lacking could be significantly improved with a Solingen pasted strop in the right hands before moving on to routine stropping and shaving.

 

[Ravenonrock]

Hi! Welcome, and thanks for sharing a part of your SR journey so far. I don’t come with advice, only encouragement. Only you will know if SR shaving is for you, sounds like you have been putting in considerable effort so far though. Getting poor results is discouraging, I’ve been there. I took a long break from SR shaving and started again several years ago. Similar to you, I’ve been doing it on my own, with plenty of tutorials, research and investigation along the way. You say you are motivated to get better at honing, so am I. That curious enthusiasm will serve you well. There’s no harm in taking a break, or taking your time as you figure things out. Good luck on your journey! Had a great SR shave this morning, nothing beats it for me.

 

[TheBeast]

Hi there. Keep going, I was in the same spot as you not long ago and I am slowly breaking through. Lots of people here know A LOT about this and will help you, as they helped me. Someone mentioned getting an expensive shavette like a Feather Artist Club. To be honest I never felt the need to upgrade my 10€ parker shavette. Load it with your favorite DE cut in half and you are golden. This will give you the experience as to how in genereal should the straight razor that is honed well shave and feel - not to tug. But, even a shavette with a feather blade will not fly through the beard in some places, especially with my curly and thick hair.

Point is, I learned how to hone a razor with the help of DrMatt357 videos and B&B. It will pop a single hanging hair, it will pop leg hair way above the skin. And it shaves reasonably well. Only way to go is forward from here, with a better edge after every honing session.

You have a decent set of stones. You might want to share exactly which ones. First things first make absolutely sure that you can keep them flat - Atoma 400 for example should do the trick. Even sandpaper on flat tile/glass/granite.
Also make sure that the razor is truly straight with a "wobble test". Place it on something really flat, keep the stabilizer off the flat surface and see if both corners of the edge are in contact with the flat surface. If you press your finger down on the blade near the heel and you see the tip rise, we have a problem Houston. And A LOT of blades have this problem. I personally like to fix this problem by grinding steel away. (some people get offended by the idea of putting serious hone wear on the razor).
Also watch out for the stabilizer getting in the way and lifting the heel a bit. You can do heel leading at 45 degrees kinda stroke, or you can modify the heel and stabilizer to make it foolproof. Again, LOTS of blades have bad heel geometry.
Now that "the geometry is right", honing is really easy. You go up a grit and stay there until you only see the scratches from the current grit and the scratches from the previous one are completely removed. After 10k, you should have a reasonably decent edge. There are more than a few ways to make it even better than that, but for now you just need to be able to achieve a decent edge on what you have and fully understand how to get there. Dont worry, you will.

Try starting a thread in the Honing forum and ask for guidence on the particular razor you are honing with the particular tools you have. If you have 15€ to spend, geting a USB "microscope" will allow you to take close-up pictures of your edge and bevels. Someone here will then be able to "read" the pictures and tell you exactly what you need to do.

GOOD LUCK! If you keep going at your own pace, you cannot fail. Especially not with the help of youtube and B&B. Guys like H Brad Boonshaft, Slash McCoy and rbscebu will find your thread and help you. They sure did help me a lot and got me going.

 

[Frank Shaves]

You need a razor with a great edge and Andrejs makes and sells RigaRazor razors from Latvia with terrific edges that are truly shave ready. I live in the US and bought my RigaRazor on eBay at:

Security Measure

www.ebay.com

Not sure how to contact Andrejs outside of eBay, but I would recommend you get yourself a new RigaRazor from Andrejs.

 

[5whiskey]

It's been almost a year of a lot of practicing. Some cuts here and there, but I felt that after a while my technique was decent. However, I never got the real clean shave that I wanted. The easy parts (cheeks, below the nose) are fine, but the areas where the hairs are more stubborn (chin, neck) I just cannot get the blade through. Tugging is an understatement, I've learned over time to just stop and finish up with my DE to avoid irritation or cuts (defeating the point of the SR, IMO).

I think most experienced SR shavers here correctly identified your issue buried in this statement. You do not appear to have a shave ready razor still. If you did, at 1 year in, you would have figured out by now what works and be getting at least pretty darn decent shave. Either that, or you still just don't get it and need to hang it up (though I don't believe this). The "tugging is an understatement" is the giveaway to me. Even if your shave technique still needed some refinement, you should be at a point after a year that a truly "shave ready" razor would produce better results than this.

I would send your razor out to have it honed. Seriously, I would. Preferably to someone that many here recommend. You're sure to get back a shave ready razor, if it can be made shave ready. Then perfect your technique. Then learn to hone. I won't comment much on honing. The only advice I give is make sure that you have hones suited for razors. That, and make darn sure the bevel is set before advancing in your progression.

Don't give up. It's a great (the best, in fact) way to shave.

 

[amateur]

Here's how to shave with a straight razor

 

[Steve56]

It sounds like your razor needs to be honed. A straight razor should not tug under any circumstances. Tugging = needs honing.