- Thread starter
- #41
Tim, I appreciate that. I am really heartbroken over the whole deal. There is certainly some spiritual warfare going on here. I am trying my best to be optimistic.
DL
A concern on contibutable giving......
- Thread starter Dustinl
- Start date
Tim, I appreciate that. I am really heartbroken over the whole deal. There is certainly some spiritual warfare going on here. I am trying my best to be optimistic.
DL
My take - this isn't just happening to you. I think if you sounded out some of the other members, whom you trust to so do, you would find that this isn't just your experience. It would be helpful to first bring it up to a committee of elders, deacons, leadership, etc., if your church is so structured.
Sometimes things like this have to brought out into the open. There is a right way and a wrong was to do so, of course, but it sound to me that the right way will be employed.
(And I would recommend that your congregation form a finance committee to handle the money.)
Agreed!
Exposing the issues could cause bad blood between people.
On the other hand, if others are having the same problem it would be best to get it out and on the table.
Tricky situation. Would you want to be the person who raises the issue?
Being small does not excuse a church of not doing it correctly. You don't have to pay for audits or a multiple set of eyes. Members of the congregation should donate their time. All monies should be handled by at least 2 people at all time. That way there is a witness for any shenanigans. And having the pastors wife as the bookkeeper is a huge conflict of interest.
At the very least - even if nobody in business would call it an audit - the church processes should be transparent and available for review by any concerned member of the congregation. This costs nothing (except "time" I guess).
If this is happening with cheques, why anyone would think it is not happening with cash is beyond me.
If you're staying. Direct deposit your $. I reiterate my earliest post: if there is a personal message to you in this it would be "become more involved in church governance." Any church should be "the congregation, and the clergy" not "the clergy... oh, yeah, and the congregation".
edit:
I see I may have returned to this a bit late, but you have put yourself on a path to being more involved in the church governance.
It's really heartening to see that you have followed through with your spiritual and personal commitment to your congregation to see this situation improved, not just let it become your reason for passing ways.
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I am a veteran of many small congregations. I am unhappy to observe that this experience suggests that someone in a position of trust has a problem, and someone else is unable or unwilling to throw the flag on the problem. The minimum action here should be to donate only service, not money for a short time. The better action is to vote with your feet. There are other church communities out there. Find another one. Sorry to be blunt, but I have watched these situations explode more than one time.
I agree 100%. I do not care if it is 10 bucks or 10%, I want to know the money I work hard for is going to be handled by a responsible party.
I once saw something about the amount of people who tithe. It is very low, in the single percentages, with that being said, why would your donation disappear? I am baffled. I have to think you are not alone.
I would ask others if this has happened to them.
I feel bad for you, I know it must be hard to think about leaving. I am positive you would find a great group of people at another church though too. I bet they would take your money also. If your heart is really into this church, get auto payments set up, I think I would be afraid these checks are going to be used as echecks elsewhere.
O....you know about spiritual warfare?
This is right on the money so to speak. I went to a large non-denominational church and strict guide lines were put in place to handle the money. I was involved in counting the money after each service. We had teams that counted and verified each amount (Cash and Checks). After verification the money was put in a bank bag and deposited that day with an escort to the bank.
Safeguards should be put in place to protect the pastor and the members of the church. It looks like it is time for the pastor to review the methods currently used and come up with a better way of safeguarding the integrity of everyone.
People usually sit in the same spot each week. Try moving your seating if possible and see if the missing check stops.If someone is pulling your tithe it won't be so easy if they don't know which one is yours.
- Thread starter
- #51
Or put a UV powder on it and line everybody up when its not there at the end and hit them with a black light.
I am on the board for a chapter of a national nonprofit organization. Finances are handled by one of the board members who is the Treasuer. The board president is also able to spend the money. Annual audits are conducted by someone on the board besides the President and Treasuer, and it never is the same per so twice in a row doing the audit. The results are reported to the national orgaization.
I think that it would be good idea for the pastor to reveal the problem to everyone without naming names and ask others to let him know if they are having the same problem. It simply must be understood by all that it is bring done to insure the safety of the monies. It will probably cause some consternation in the congregation, but it needs to happen for the good of the church. As it is right now, your trust is poisoned and that can spread to others.
I think that it would be good idea for the pastor to reveal the problem to everyone without naming names and ask others to let him know if they are having the same problem. It simply must be understood by all that it is bring done to insure the safety of the monies. It will probably cause some consternation in the congregation, but it needs to happen for the good of the church. As it is right now, your trust is poisoned and that can spread to others.
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But how does this explain the ones you handed directly to the Pastor's wife which are also gone?
I don't think it is the person next to you.
Tony
Good point Tony it doesn't. But if the trickster sees that your trying figure out whas going on maybe they will stop before they're caught. no one is actually stealing so all you really want is for the situation to rectify itself peacefully.
I think all this is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. The man is trying to give money to his church and has to play musical chairs? Something is wrong with that.
I don't really know what advice I can give, but as a former pastor, having the pastor's wife as the book keeper is an absolute conflict of interests. I'm surprised the church board doesn't have an official treasurer position (that should be filled by someone not the pastor's wife).
Mr Imperial I think that's the closest this thread has come to real advice. Everyone else has speculated what you have just confirmed with the only voice that matters, the voice of experience.
Whether it's being stolen or misplaced, there's something clearly not right here. If I was in your position, I would wait until it's resolved before giving them any more, or, if you're uncomfortable not giving every week, give it to a charity you like. If it's not resolved in a timely manner, I'd look into depositing it directly into the church's account, as reccomended by several people before.
- Thread starter
- #60
Again, thank you for all the replies. I would have never imagined this thread receiving so many replies. And not once did I read "church is nothing but a business robbing your money blah, blah, blah, blah......" Thanks!
As of today, I think I have pushed the issue enough with the church that I think they are going to act. I can't help but wondering that this must have happened to others and the pastor is recognizing that there is a problem. We shall see.
DL
As of today, I think I have pushed the issue enough with the church that I think they are going to act. I can't help but wondering that this must have happened to others and the pastor is recognizing that there is a problem. We shall see.
DL
