A concern on contibutable giving......

[OldSaw]

I hope everything gets resolved. Have you considered giving electronically directly from your online bank account? I know I prefer to bring my tithe into the store house, but now that I am on the road this is about the only option.

 

[Dustinl]

I hope everything gets resolved. Have you considered giving electronically directly from your online bank account? I know I prefer to bring my tithe into the store house, but now that I am on the road this is about the only option.

Dennis,

This is an option that my wife and I have discussed. I wouldn't have a problem trying this. We have also considered sending it in to their P.O. box.

DL

 

[Isaac]

Any updates since church last week?

 

[Dustinl]

Any updates since church last week?

Thanks for asking, Isaac.

This past Sunday the Pastor addressed the problem with the congregation. He said that some people's contribution statements were not jiving with what they gave. In other words, envelopes with cash apparently were coming up missing as well. The church has implimented different standards for handling money. I guess only time will tell. I hate it that it happened, but at least it is out in the open now.


DL

 

[life2short1971]

Well great job bringing it in the open. The church finances should see an improvement now.

 

[ImaWestie]

Here's hoping that your persistance has bought a big issue to a close.

 

[Azza]

It's really good that new procedures for handling money have come out of your efforts.

Though an unpopular view I agree with the pastor's wife that once you give it is in God's hands.

When we tithe at my church we don't put our money in envelopes and if we do we don't generally put our name on the envelope. Giving is a private matter between you and God. Is it possible to put your cash in an envelope and not use a cheque? That way you avoid this idea that you alone are being targeted and the church doesn't want your money.

You are a leader at the church and it would be terrible for you to leave. You are discipling people, you need to consider that they are in your hands as well.

It is good that the pastor is now aware of what has been happening but I would say that if this is the only problem then it is not worth leaving. Put your tithe in an envelope, do not write your name on it and use cash.

If there are bigger problems at your church they will come out eventually.

Finally if this whole drama has made you realise how unhelpful or how little your opinion is respected in the church then maybe it could be time to change churches. There are many good ones around.

Ultimately do what brings you closer to God.

- Aaron

 

[winston61]

first of all there must be no appearance of conflict or impropriety. That means no member of the pastor's family handling monies without at least one person witnessing the counting and bank transaction. An unbroken chain of reliable witnesses from the time the money goes into the plate 'till it's in the bank. No one is ever allowed to be alone with the cash and checks. No One. A rotating assignment of persons to collect the cash and checks and witness the counting and bank transactions. Credibility can be maintained and an accounting of every penny can be established. It's not difficult. Make it a part of church life. Place the collection plates with the dough on the altar 'til service is over. Then select 3 random members to count and prepare bank deposits. Make a very public accounting of every penny taken. This is not a question of trust or honesty. We are all human and subject to temptation. Remove the temptation.


Though an unpopular view I agree with the pastor's wife that once you give it is in God's hands. No, it's not in God's hands, it's in the hands of humans that are subject to temptation. Just because it's church does not mean everyone is not entitled to an accounting of every penny.

 

[ImaWestie]

If you want to put your charity into god's hands, you'd get some kind of random list of addresses and post them each a crisp $100.
You want to put it into the hands of your church. Which you want to distribute money in accordance with a published charter, in accordance with a set of practices and procedures, which helped you decide which church to be a member of.

Would you willingly give money to a church to then find it was being willingly given to sustain somebodys drug or habit of choice? I wouldn't think so, but if the money is being stolen from a church there is every chance that's where it's ending up. Surely helping people out of that situation would be gods work but prelonging it would not be.

Sorry, I'm not intending to provoke or particpate in theological arguement here.

 

[Azza]

I think simplified this is what it comes down to for me:

"I think someone is stealing from the collection, how do I continue to be faithful and fulfil my obligation to tithe?"

I think the only real solution is what played out here. The pastor has been notified and now that he is aware things should stop. If it is the pastor's wife who is taking the money then really what are your options? Do you stop giving??? If you do you are not tithing.

That is why I think all you can do is give as you have been commanded to in the Bible and all the other stuff behind the curtain so to speak cannot and should not affect you. You are being obedient as required.

I think getting drawn into what happens to the money and how it is handled is for the church leadership to sort out.

It really depends on if you are able to let it go in your mind if you know the pastor's wife is taking the money. If not change churches because your leadership is sub-par or ask if you can implement some of the ideas in this thread and take lead in that area.

I just cannot see what other real options you have - by not worrying about the money after it has been given you continue to be faithful as required.

Hope this clears up why I think what happens to the money should be in God's hands.

Though an unpopular view I agree with the pastor's wife that once you give it is in God's hands. No, it's not in God's hands, it's in the hands of humans that are subject to temptation. Just because it's church does not mean everyone is not entitled to an accounting of every penny.

This temptation issue is not for the congregation to sort out but the leaders. The issue that is really important I believe is how can one be faithful to God's word (tithe) when this kind of stuff is going on?

My answer is regardless of what is going on, be faithful. The idea of tithing is to let things go, it is not a donation for the church to do what good deeds it is doing. They are often related but at its core a tithe is about giving back to God what is already his.

Btw, I am a senior leader in my church, tithing is a very problematic area in terms of number of issues.

- Aaron

 

[the beav]

I read just about everything in this thread but might have missed something, so forgive me if that's the case. With that in mind, here's a few points:

Most churches have elders who are over the church, including the pastor. Is that the way it is with your church? It doesn't seem so, but if you do, I think you should talk with them about instituting some new policies, even to the point of changing ushers periodically. Many churches rotate these duties among members anyway. Usually someone other than the pastor handles the money--not because they don't trust the pastor, but because he is busy doing other things during and after the service.

Also, it seems to me that if someone is stealing the checks, then they would cash them. But this isn't happening in your case so maybe it's harassment.

Lastly, I have seen one instance where a satanic coven sent someone to join a certain church with the purpose of causing dissension within the church body. Over time this person volunteered to do certain duties, and she caused a lot of mayhem before the pastor figured out what was going on.

If you feel like not supporting the church until the problems are resolved, you could always send the money to other ministries who do a lot of outreach work such as supporting missionaries and running Christian orphanages. David Wilkerson and Joyce Meyer come to mind in this regard. There are others as well.