I am working with a set of Naniwa SS stones. They feel "right" up to 5k. They have good cutting action with good feedback. But the 8k and the 12k feel very "muddy". The 8k especially feels like that. When lapping with an Atoma, tremendous amounts of slurry come off the 8k; not as much with the 12k. And they don't really feel like they are cutting. I don't see a lot of swarf, but I think I may see some. I know they are finishing stones and maybe that is the way they should be. Should they be handled differently than the lower grit stones? Could there be a problem with the stones? They are so different from the lower grit stones.
8k and 12k stones feel "muddy"?
- Thread starter Eastcoast30
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Yes, that is what it is. Softer feel and with more "stick". Also, they seem to need a lot of water. After only a pass or three, they get dry spots and need to be sprayed. I wonder if I shouold soak them a bit beforehand, as they seem to need so much water? I am also wondering if I should use a touch of lather or soap with them to help with the sticking?
You may do harm to soak those if they are “splash and go” stones. Some stone if you keep a bed of water on the surface you are encouraging them to warp and craze. Be careful.
I also would avoid any oils lathers etc on synths. Maybe that is just me, but sounds like a bad plan. I do use weird stuff on some naturals, but not synths personally.
I also would avoid any oils lathers etc on synths. Maybe that is just me, but sounds like a bad plan. I do use weird stuff on some naturals, but not synths personally.
Have one older yellow Naniwa 8000# SS but think Naniwa have changed them.
You can think that after 10 000# or 12 000# Naniwa you can have a finished rather well shaving edge.
So 8000# is a high grit stone and should not remove much metal.
Only do very soft stroke and perhaps shorter strokes in end. Mine actually do the work between 5000# and 10 000# very fast but clog very fast, need to refresh surface perhaps 2-3 times, but that is done very fast. Using a natural stone but wet/dry 400# would do.
You can think that after 10 000# or 12 000# Naniwa you can have a finished rather well shaving edge.
So 8000# is a high grit stone and should not remove much metal.
Only do very soft stroke and perhaps shorter strokes in end. Mine actually do the work between 5000# and 10 000# very fast but clog very fast, need to refresh surface perhaps 2-3 times, but that is done very fast. Using a natural stone but wet/dry 400# would do.
I actually perma-soak my Naniwa Superstones, as I do most of my resinoid based stones. Gives the stone an even softer, creamier feel, and also keeps them from warping/swelling. I had issues with my 8K and 12K swelling throughout the wet/dry cycle; this issue is no longer a problem as the stone is always wet.
Just for clarity, don't perma-soak the Naniwa Professional/Chosera, as they are magnesia based, and this will cause issues.
I’m not getting swarf off the 8 or 12K. I’m spraying them, letting pool, spray again and use. I spray as I go, but eventually I find they take on water. To me the 8K feels hard and the 12K creamy. Almost like a soft film? A pleasing feel IMHO. Allowing for a very light stroke, the blade is sticking to the stone with almost no pressure. Some razors more than others.
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I'm not sure how these stones should be used. What do you mean by wet/dry cycle? And by perma-soak do you mean you leaver them in the water all the time?
By wet/dry cycle I am referring to you putting water on them to hone, them soaking up some of that water and becoming "wet" and then you finish honing, and the stone is left out to dry.
And yes, I have a cambro filled with water that I leave all of my resinoid stones permanently submerged in. Gives them a better texture, better feedback, improves cutting speed and keeps them more stable and consistent.
Originally I only did this with knife stones, but figured I'd try with my Naniwas that I use for honing razors and noticed an improvement immediately; with the improved feedback it was much easier to feel what the razor needed, and it totally got rid of the inconsistencies that can arise from different levels of "wetness/soaking" at the stones surface.
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With my lower grit stones, I keep adding water as needed, so as to keep the undercut going. I assume you keep a continuous undercut going with the 8k and 12k.
By "muddy", do you mean that the Naniwa 12k feels a little sticky or has more resistance than say your JNATs? If yes, then I understand and experienced this a few weeks ago after only using my JNATs for a few weeks. In my case, I went back to the Naniwa and kept lapping the stone with my cheapo 1000 grit diamond plate to remove any swarf build-up and after a bit I had readjusted to the feel of the Naniwa, and actually really got into it.
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- #12
Yes, I think I need to keep lapping it to get rid of buildup, and I do need to get used to it.
I was just honing my new Bergischer Lowe on my Naniwa 12k and had to chamfer the edges, so something else to keep in mind. BTW, the Naniwa did a get job polishing/smoothing the factory edge!
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