An question about the federal forums.

[CurtisB81]

If this isn't right place move or just delete it..

I have family member that's asked me about getting a firearm for home use.But he's never filled out a federal firearms forum and he smokes pot, I told he he won't get one.. I told him a baseball bat is his best bet..Its his ***, not mine..

 

[CurtisB81]

OH never mind I just googled it, very clear..

 

[Lightcs1776]

It's a good question to ask. One needs to be clear minded when it comes to using a firearm, whether for home defense or plinking on the range. A firearm is a tool, and I don't use any of my tools if I have had a couple drinks. That includes my band saw, lathe, etc., and firearms.

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[Acmemfg]

Not suggesting it is good idea, nor something your family member should pursue, but private sales are far less restrictive than buying from a dealer. Usually just as legal as well. Do some research on that issue. You may be surprised

 

[bberg100]

Not suggesting it is good idea, nor something your family member should pursue, but private sales are far less restrictive than buying from a dealer. Usually just as legal as well. Do some research on that issue. You may be surprised

1. Still a violation of federal law to posses a firearm if you indulge in marijuana. Don't like that? Work with your Congressman.
2. Many states require a background check on private transfers. Don't like that? Work with your local state representative.

In Feb 2017, ATF reworded the ATF 4473 (background check) to SPECIFICALLY address medical & recreational marijuana. I actually had a customer ask if she returned the marijuana to the store, and brought me a receipt showing she returned it, would I go ahead and sell her a gun.

 

[OkieStubble]

If this isn't right place move or just delete it..

I have family member that's asked me about getting a firearm for home use.But he's never filled out a federal firearms forum and he smokes pot, I told he he won't get one.. I told him a baseball bat is his best bet..Its his ***, not mine..

Couldn't he just say, he doesn't inhale? I heard that can work.

 

[BSAGuy]

Couldn't he just say, he doesn't inhale? I heard that can work.

Here is a video for the edification our younger members who may not know the origin of the "I did not inhale" defense. Anyone here born after about 1978-1980 would not be familiar with this equivocating.

Plus it's a classic in it's own right.

 

[Kilroy08]

I was born in '83 and remember that segment quite well. Being a curious young lad, I asked my parents what he was talking about. They looked at each other, wishing it had sailed right over my head so they wouldn't have to explain illegal drugs to an eight year old.

They should have known better since a few years prior I had gotten all upset over Mom drinking and driving. Drinking a diet Pepsi as we left the gas station parking lot, mind you. How the heck was I, five or six years old at the time, supposed to know the M.A.D.D. commercials were talking about?

Getting back on topic...... Like indulging in smoke-able rope? No gun for you! Uncle Sam doesn't care if a state has legalized or decriminalized. Federal law still considers marijuana illegal.

 

[Jeff10236]

From what I've read, it isn't quite as clear cut as "do drugs, no guns"...

The form says "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?". Does "unlawful user" mean once? Maybe, but what things seem to mean on their face and what the law actually means can be totally different.

According to "Williams Law Online" (The Top 10 Things You Need to Know About Federal Gun Law | Law Offices of Keith A. Williams, P.A. | Greenville North Carolina) the law doesn't apply to casual "infrequent" users.

Further, if he has never been arrested or failed a drug test, there would be no evidence that he is a drug user so from a practical perspective he wouldn't be barred from buying a gun.

Cornell University's law school has the definition of terms used by the government as follows (27 CFR 478.11 - Meaning of terms.):

Unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance. A person who uses a controlled substance and has lost the power of self-control with reference to the use of controlled substance; and any person who is a current user of a controlled substance in a manner other than as prescribed by a licensed physician. Such use is not limited to the use of drugs on a particular day, or within a matter of days or weeks before, but rather that the unlawful use has occurred recently enough to indicate that the individual is actively engaged in such conduct. A person may be an unlawful current user of a controlled substance even though the substance is not being used at the precise time the person seeks to acquire a firearm or receives or possesses a firearm.

An inference of current use may be drawn from evidence of a recent use or possession of a controlled substance or a pattern of use or possession that reasonably covers the present time, e.g., a conviction for use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year; multiple arrests for such offenses within the past 5 years if the most recent arrest occurred within the past year; or persons found through a drug test to use a controlled substance unlawfully, provided that the test was administered within the past year. For a current or former member of the Armed Forces, an inference of current use may be drawn from recent disciplinary or other administrative action based on confirmed drug use, e.g., court-martial conviction, nonjudicial punishment, or an administrative discharge based on drug use or drug rehabilitation failure.

That suggests to me that while any use would put you in violation of the law, the way such use is proven is an arrest or failed drug test.

So, if he hasn't been arrested and hasn't failed a drug test he is probably good to go. If he buys a gun and any of the above happens, he better sell the gun to a gun shop ASAP. I'm not sure if selling the gun right away will even protect him from charges relating to being a drug user in possession of a gun since he would have owned his gun at the time he got caught doing drugs. His best bet is to give up using drugs, or give up his desire for a gun. Decide which is more important and go with that.

Oh, medical marijuana or using it in states that have legalized it will still ban him from gun ownership under federal law.



Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. Nor am I a drug user who might have a vested interest in this area. I'm just a curious gun owner, a teacher (who has several drug using students) and someone who loves researching different topics. So take this advice for what it is worth.

 

[bberg100]

From what I've read, it isn't quite as clear cut as "do drugs, no guns"...

The form says "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?". Does "unlawful user" mean once? Maybe, but what things seem to mean on their face and what the law actually means can be totally different.

//snip//

The ATF 4473 was updated in February to clarify "unlawful"

Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.

Looks pretty clear cut to me. I had a young lady ask if she returned it to the dispensary and brought me the receipt back would I sell her a gun. Uh No.

 

[OkieStubble]

I had a young lady ask if she returned it to the dispensary and brought me the receipt back would I sell her a gun. Uh No.

LOL! She then buys the gun, goes back to the dispensary and uses said recent purchase, to attempt to rob them of all the Green Indo they possess. In which she tragically dies in a shootout with police.

I can see the news interview now. "Sky 9 news here, so Bill, what were you thinking when you sold her that gun?"

 

[Lightcs1776]

LOL! She then buys the gun, goes back to the dispensary and uses said recent purchase, to attempt to rob them of all the Green Indo they possess. In which she tragically dies in a shootout with police.

I can see the news interview now. "Sky 9 news here, so Bill, what were you thinking when you sold her that gun?"

It's funny, but a bit scary as well. Once that round leaves the chamber, there's no getting it back.

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[Jeff10236]

The ATF 4473 was updated in February to clarify "unlawful"

Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.

Looks pretty clear cut to me. I had a young lady ask if she returned it to the dispensary and brought me the receipt back would I sell her a gun. Uh No.

No where do I suggest that medical use or use in states that have decriminalized pot use is OK by federal law. In fact, I say that if someone uses it for medical purposes they can't buy a gun. I was responding to the idea that if you smoke or ever smoked pot, no guns for you.

It isn't 100% clear if that is the case. Most of what I can find suggests that if you used to smoke pot but have quit some time ago (or if you only tried it once or twice, even if it was recent) you are fine. Practically speaking it definitely isn't the case since the only way they can identify you as a prior or current user is if you went into treatment or if you were arrested. While a pot smoker who never did either can technically buy a gun (nothing in the system to label them a user), later in my post I give the advice that if a pot smoker wants to buy a gun they should decide which is more important and quit if they will buy a gun since they might be able to get in extra trouble if they are caught with drugs later.

 

[August West]

I wish I knew it was that easy.

I could have gotten myself and my whole squad shipped back home.

 

[John Clayton III]

Sheesh! The form asks "Are you." Not "were you," "did you inhale" or similar nonsense.

Now that we have that settled, would somebody please pass me that joint?