Captain's Choice is the WORST shaving soap that I've optimized so far

[nemo]

That title really instigated some unwanted attention, but it was a good lesson. I'll try not to emphasis "worst" the next time I use it, if ever again.

It initiated more than that. You may have learned a lesson but what about the vendor? There's more to it than just you -- behind the soap there is a hard-working entrepreneur with a now stained name. This gentleman is a long-time B&B member who turned his hobby into something more and became a respected paying B&B vendor. What message does this inflammatory thread and title send to potential future vendors and the B&B program? Wow ... a tongue smiley?

Maybe the mods can hopefully change the title so it doesn't remain here in perpetuity. Happy new year.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

It initiated more than that. You may have learned a lesson but what about the vendor? There's more to it than just you -- behind the soap there is a hard-working entrepreneur with a now stained name. This gentleman is a long-time B&B member who turned his hobby into something more and became a respected paying B&B vendor. What message does this inflammatory thread and title send to potential future vendors and the B&B program? Wow ... a tongue smiley?

Maybe the mods can hopefully change the title so it doesn't remain here in perpetuity. Happy new year.

I'm sorry that you're so offended by the title, but it still remains an accurate assessment: CC is the worst shaving soap that I've optimized so far. I hope that we are free here to give honest opinions with frankness and civility, which is common practice in a free market in which entrepreneurs are free to consider or ignore feedback. Some people love certain products. Others hate those same products. That's the way it goes.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

I learned from @johnwick that my table does not show up well with Tapatalk and browsers on phones. I checked my phone and saw one of the problems. So, here is a picture version of the performance ranking table. Please let me know what you think of the content and if the picture is being rendered well. You should be able to click on or touch the picture to bring up the full-size image and pan around it. Thanks.

 

[mrlandpirate]

It initiated more than that. You may have learned a lesson but what about the vendor? There's more to it than just you -- behind the soap there is a hard-working entrepreneur with a now stained name. This gentleman is a long-time B&B member who turned his hobby into something more and became a respected paying B&B vendor. What message does this inflammatory thread and title send to potential future vendors and the B&B program? Wow ... a tongue smiley?

Maybe the mods can hopefully change the title so it doesn't remain here in perpetuity. Happy new year.

Well said and we can only hope they do

 

[Raven Koenes]

I received some samples of CC soap in a 2018 sabbatical PIF. I've only used it twice so far and I don't think that's enough use to justify a full blown review, but because of the title of this thread I feel compelled to express an off-the-cuff opinion. After a couple uses I would put CC soap as a second tier soap. To put that into perspective, I'm an old school triple-milled tallow soap kinda guy and generally stay away from the latest and greatest artisanal release. Softer soaps and croaps are fine, but not my first choice. I'd put CC with Valobra soft, many of the better RR offerings, etc. Maybe a half-notch above Cella. That's all regarding performance. Scent is excellent. That's my very humble opinion after a couple uses of a sample for what its worth. If my tripled milled tallow favorites disappeared I could very happily shave daily with the CC soap I tried. As an aside, I have well water that is twice filtered and softened.

For me Cella is the WORST soap I've ever tried. I'm allergic to the almond scent. It was like taking a match and lighting my face on fire.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Just a suggestion to the OP. Why not in the future when starting a new thread to report your findings on a particular shave soap just title the thread “ SHaving by the numbers report on XYZ soap “ this way it starts out as neither a negative or positive statement! It lets members know that you did a full report on the soap and they can click on it if they choose or not to read your report. Also if a soap scores the lowest overall score of all the soaps tested you could just say it like that in your final evaluation comment.

I have to agree with the statement the moderator made and being a tester for some of the artisan soap makers I know that they work hard to bring what they feel is the best soaps to the wet shaving community and even though I may like one better than another there’s just a better way of saying it.

I do a lot of Shave Offs using 2 razors on my face. I give a little bit of history on the razor, the manufacturer and specs when I have them and all the features of the razor. As far as the Shave Off goes, basically I’m using one razor on one side and the other razor on the other side. I evaluate and report on how each razorr performs by itself and how it compares to the other razor it’s being compared to. 90% of the time there is a clear winner. Once in a while there’s a tie. As far as the loser of the Shave Off goes I will say things like the razor was less efficient, it didn’t get me as close, or it was a little harsh as far as face feel goes or the shave didn’t last as long etc. etc.
Of course the report is only my experience when using the two razors and others may have a completely different opinion on the razors being used. I would never say it’s the worst razor I’ve ever shaved with. No need to. No need to say that! Just a detailed report of how it preformed is all the members want to hear who follow my thread.

So I understand what your trying to do as far as helping others who may be thinking of picking up a soap and I appreciate all the hard work it takes to do a report like your doing. Believe me I know! It takes me at least 3 hrs to do a complete Shave Off including the Photos, the Shave Off itself and the written report and getting it posted up in the thread.

Being honest and telling it like you see it is also appreciated but again it’s just one mans opinion, observations and experience using a particular soap. So I have to agree that using the word “ Worst soap. “ was probably not the best choice.

Just my 2 cents on the subject.

Great Shaves!

Thank you, @Dragonsbeard, for your thoughtful feedback. I hear what you and others are saying about avoiding the use of "worst". It was used accurately in expressing my opinion, but it wasn't necessary to say. You are right about that. I usually title my optimization threads by noting that the soap or cream comes in Nth place out of M products. In the case of CC, I could have said that it came in "last place" or "20th place out of 20". I will try and avoid "worst" in the thread title the next time a product comes in last place, but unless such language is banned, I appreciate having the freedom to use it.

For me Cella is the WORST soap I've ever tried. I'm allergic to the almond scent. It was like taking a match and lighting my face on fire.

That makes sense. Who wants their face on fire?

 

[emwolf]

I had a soap that "burned" my face (it was a cinnamon scent, ouch). I've only had a couple soaps that didn't produce at least an acceptable lather for shaving. Badger Balm shaving soap was the one I can recall most recently. I appreciate the time and real science put into this report. I've never tried nor heard of NSS so I might have to pick some up.

 

[dfoulk]

I learned from @johnwick that my table does not show up well with Tapatalk and browsers on phones. I checked my phone and saw one of the problems. So, here is a picture version of the performance ranking table. Please let me know what you think of the content and if the picture is being rendered well. You should be able to click on or touch the picture to bring up the full-size image and pan around it. Thanks.

Ok, so this is the first that I've seen some meaningful information. Not sure why I can't seem to see this information in your other posts though. I viewed the chart in the original thread listing the lather times, amount of water, etc and that information while very well presented is still virtually meaningless to me in judging performance. You did a really nice job writing it up though and the post is very well done.

The chart displayed above is much more in line with what I'd expect a soap to be graded on. Slickness, Post Shave, and to a lesser extent latherability and cushion. Latherability has to be decent as does cushion but slickness and post shave are what stands out to me personally. The problem here is that all of this data is subjective, and unfortunately I wouldn't grade the soaps listed above the same as you have. My order would be completely different. I'd likely have Declaration Grooming and Sudsy Soapery near the top with Declaration Grooming excelling in slickness and Sudsy Soapery giving better post shave results as it moisturizes my face quite well with repeated use. Barrister & Mann's Reserve would be near the top of the list as well likely in third from what you've tested. Proraso would not be third on my list or anywhere near the top.

If you could somehow quantify these attributes scientifically (with numeric data from specific tests) then you might have created a more universally accepted grading system. A better way of testing that does not currently exist. I suspect that with better and more accurate repeatable testing methods your ranking may change as well.

Another thing I've found is that to truly evaluate the post shave of a soap I have to use a lesser soap like Tabac for a week or two in order to sufficiently dry my face out, then test with the soap I'm accessing for about two to three weeks of daily shaves, taking notes as to how my face is changing as it becomes more moisturized. I'll do side by side shaves with the same brush knots, comparing the new formula to my highest rated soap as well. It generally takes me about a month of shaves to thoroughly test a new formula for a vendor. Comparing several potential formulas can take significantly longer.

Anyway, while my results would be much different that your own I do respect your assessment and I'm happy that you're finding what works well for you. I'd be very interested in some scientific tests to score slickness, post shave and moisture if you're feeling scientific and have a way of testing these attributes. I feel that some larger skin care companies must be employing some type of testing for cosmetics and what not, but I'm sure they have larger budgets and equipment beyond what the average user here might have at their disposal.

 

[REV579]

I believe there has been significant amounts of constructive criticism and hope the OP takes it in consideration. There are significant differences between evaluation and opinion. Evaluations honor both, the person and the subject. Opinions are about the person’s experience. Clearly, this thread is about an opinion and not an evaluation.
I had hoped for a little more evaluation when I ran across the thread.

 

[Esox]

Just a suggestion to the OP. Why not in the future when starting a new thread to report your findings on a particular shave soap just title the thread “ SHaving by the numbers report on XYZ soap “ this way it starts out as neither a negative or positive statement! It lets members know that you did a full report on the soap and they can click on it if they choose or not to read your report. Also if a soap scores the lowest overall score of all the soaps tested you could just say it like that in your final evaluation comment.

I agree.

Thank you, @Dragonsbeard, for your thoughtful feedback. I hear what you and others are saying about avoiding the use of "worst". It was used accurately in expressing my opinion, but it wasn't necessary to say. You are right about that. I usually title my optimization threads by noting that the soap or cream comes in Nth place out of M products. In the case of CC, I could have said that it came in "last place" or "20th place out of 20". I will try and avoid "worst" in the thread title the next time a product comes in last place, but unless such language is banned, I appreciate having the freedom to use it.

I think the best route to go as far as a thread title would be to keep them all the same "Lather Optimization Results for "X" Soap/Cream."

 

[Graydog]

I want to reply but I just can't .

It initiated more than that. You may have learned a lesson but what about the vendor? There's more to it than just you -- behind the soap there is a hard-working entrepreneur with a now stained name. This gentleman is a long-time B&B member who turned his hobby into something more and became a respected paying B&B vendor. What message does this inflammatory thread and title send to potential future vendors and the B&B program? Wow ... a tongue smiley?

Maybe the mods can hopefully change the title so it doesn't remain here in perpetuity. Happy new year.

I Really want to say something but I just can't , I just can't.
Doug said it all and I agree .

 

[Nicholas]

Is it that difficult nowadays to respect opinions and thoughts we don't agree with?
It's just an opinion. It doesn't mean that it's an undeniable truth.

Also, I have to point out that the artisan didn't handle it well. Instead of offering his thoughts and even some advice about his product in this thread, he started a giveaway mocking the fellow member.

 

[snowman]

For me Cella is the WORST soap I've ever tried. I'm allergic to the almond scent. It was like taking a match and lighting my face on fire.

I am also allergic to some soaps. Some of the artisans make heavy use of EOs and FOs that I don't do well with. Of course that simply means they are a bad soap for me, not for everyone.

 

[Hannah's Dad]

Is it that difficult nowadays to respect opinions and thoughts we don't agree with?
It's just an opinion. It doesn't mean that it's an undeniable truth.

Also, I have to point out that the artisan didn't handle it well. Instead of offering his thoughts and even some advice about his product in this thread, he started a giveaway mocking the fellow member.

I think the vendor played it with light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek humor. Frankly, I don’t think either gentlemen has any malice in their heart.

 

[Villalobos]

It’s difficult not to offend anyone if you have an opinion on anything.

 

[REV579]

Is it that difficult nowadays to respect opinions and thoughts we don't agree with?
It's just an opinion. It doesn't mean that it's an undeniable truth.

Also, I have to point out that the artisan didn't handle it well. Instead of offering his thoughts and even some advice about his product in this thread, he started a giveaway mocking the fellow member.

Vendor = Product = Reputation = Livelihood
It might take years to develop your "name" and reputation. Rarely, if ever does it become something sustainable overnight. It has always been easier to tear something down than it is to build something up.

Is it fair of me to develop an opinion of the OP based on his one post? It would be easy to make assumptions of his ethics and character. I don't want to think he was trying to throw out a "hot-take" to generate buzz or attention because that behavior does fit in a poor and undesirable category, but the OP deserves the benefit-of-doubt, assuming the best instead of the worst. I want to believe that harm was not intended and that his vocabulary or word-choice was simply sloppy and unprofessional. Standards are good.

As far as the vendor's response is concerned, why should the vendor respond to an opinion that is opinion based and purely subjective? His give-away contest is a better way to respond than to get in a shouting match or name-calling exchange. Further, the contest was listed in The Vendor's Personal Sub-Forum(yes, he paid for that right), it wasn't in a random sub-forum, where he promotes his product. So, he promotes his business and his product within the forum and supports the forum with his presence, his product and his financial contributions, hence the label associated with his account.

Captain's Choice(Scott) doesn't need me to defend his product, but if you read my solicited(that's why folks post on forums) thoughts, I called into question the methodology and essentially the standards by which the review was made. Heck, I've only tried 3 of the products listed(Arko, CC Soap, and no. 3 on the list if it is the Green proraso) and want reviews that are fair, true to the product's strengths and weakness, and are consistent. Captain's Choice does deserve opinions to be offered in respectful ways, then those thoughts and opinions that we don't agree with can be handled equally respectful.

 

[snowman]

Is it that difficult nowadays to respect opinions and thoughts we don't agree with?
It's just an opinion. It doesn't mean that it's an undeniable truth.

Also, I have to point out that the artisan didn't handle it well. Instead of offering his thoughts and even some advice about his product in this thread, he started a giveaway mocking the fellow member.

I have to point out I think the vendor handled it perfectly. Its too easy to get pulled into a troll-fest, I think not responding was the wise choice.

Regarding the giveaway...I think its classy of the vendor to take something so negative and turn it into self-deprecating humor. I don't believe its intended to mock anyone other than himself and as a small business owner myself I have a lot of respect for that approach. It takes a lot of restraint and professionalism to not respond to an anonymous person online saying your product is the worst ever. The fact that so many of us that have done business with Captains Choice over the years are stepping up and supporting the product and the vendor speaks volumes.

 

[Esox]

I think the vendor played it with light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek humor. Frankly, I don’t think either gentlemen has any malice in their heart.

 

[emwolf]

I have to point out I think the vendor handled it perfectly. Its too easy to get pulled into a troll-fest, I think not responding was the wise choice.

Regarding the giveaway...I think its classy of the vendor to take something so negative and turn it into self-deprecating humor. I don't believe its intended to mock anyone other than himself and as a small business owner myself I have a lot of respect for that approach. It takes a lot of restraint and professionalism to not respond to an anonymous person online saying your product is the worst ever. The fact that so many of us that have done business with Captains Choice over the years are stepping up and supporting the product and the vendor speaks volumes.

+2

 

[Nicholas]

Vendor = Product = Reputation = Livelihood
It might take years to develop your "name" and reputation. Rarely, if ever does it become something sustainable overnight. It has always been easier to tear something down than it is to build something up.

Is it fair of me to develop an opinion of the OP based on his one post? It would be easy to make assumptions of his ethics and character. I don't want to think he was trying to throw out a "hot-take" to generate buzz or attention because that behavior does fit in a poor and undesirable category, but the OP deserves the benefit-of-doubt, assuming the best instead of the worst. I want to believe that harm was not intended and that his vocabulary or word-choice was simply sloppy and unprofessional. Standards are good.

As far as the vendor's response is concerned, why should the vendor respond to an opinion that is opinion based and purely subjective? His give-away contest is a better way to respond than to get in a shouting match or name-calling exchange. Further, the contest was listed in The Vendor's Personal Sub-Forum(yes, he paid for that right), it wasn't in a random sub-forum, where he promotes his product. So, he promotes his business and his product within the forum and supports the forum with his presence, his product and his financial contributions, hence the label associated with his account.

Captain's Choice(Scott) doesn't need me to defend his product, but if you read my solicited(that's why folks post on forums) thoughts, I called into question the methodology and essentially the standards by which the review was made. Heck, I've only tried 3 of the products listed(Arko, CC Soap, and no. 3 on the list if it is the Green proraso) and want reviews that are fair, true to the product's strengths and weakness, and are consistent. Captain's Choice does deserve opinions to be offered in respectful ways, then those thoughts and opinions that we don't agree with can be handled equally respectful.

I disagree with your post.

A single bad opinion does not destroy an artisan's reputation. What the heck?