Wet shaving in Taiwan: a lament

[leather & steel]

Here in Taiwan, the range of shaving soap available is absolutely pathetic. Most local men don't shave (or at least don't need to), and for those who do there are typically only two options; stupidly expensive Gillette or Shick cartridge razors, accompanied by dodgy canned shaving cream (faux soap, or "faup" as I call it). Locally available shaving products for wet shaving are typically confined to a tiny handful of stupidly over-priced Crabtree & Evelyn soaps, or a ridiculously small range of complete silliness from Body Slop.

But even ordering overseas is fraught with peril. Here's what happens when I try to purchase shaving products on Amazon.

1. Try to purchase a badger hair shaving brush; "Sorry, can't ship this overseas, has animal hair, might be a protected species". Fair enough I guess, I'm all for stamping out animal trafficking and protecting endangered species. Let's do this another way.

2. Buy it anyway and have it shipped to my US PO box with my freight forwarder, to be sent on to me in Taiwan.

3. Freight forwarder says "Oh, animal hair, please identify the manufacturer, and the species and genus of the badger; also, you'll need three documents from this government agency, which will cost $80 and take a week, to confirm this isn't a protected species". For a $40 brush. End up having it sent to a friend of mine in the US.

4. Go back to Amazon, try to buy some innocent shaving soap.

5. Get to checkout, "Sorry, can't ship this overseas, this is a controlled substance". Seriously?

6. Buy it anyway and have it shipped to my US PO box with my freight forwarder, to be sent on to me in Taiwan.

7. Freight forwarder says "Oh, two soaps, total weight of 8 ounces, yeah that'll be $40 in shipping fees thanks, and should take a week to arrive". For $25 worth of soap, I am not paying $40 in shipping fees, for the privilege of waiting a week for it to arrive.

Hilarious. Now here's what typically happens when I try to purchase directly from artisan or mainstream manufacturer soap websites.

1. Get to checkout, filling in shipping address. Wait, Taiwan isn't even listed as a shipping option. I leave that site and move on. Sale strike one.

2. Find another website, get to checkout, filling in shipping address, wow Taiwan is listed and I can even specify my region and city, impressive. Complete shipping details, go to pay, and suddenly receive the message "No Shipping options are available. Please contact us for assistance!". Oh ok, so you don't ship to Taiwan after all even though you gave the impression that you did. Or maybe you actually do, but it's obviously going to be a complicated process, and probably expensive. Sorry, don't have time for that. I leave that site and move on. Sale strike two.

3. Find another website and wow, Prosaro on special at 50% off, I'll take three tubs for $5.99 each thanks. They list Taiwan as a shipping option, and I get to actually calculate the shipping fee, so they're definitely going to ship it to me. This is looking great, finally I'm going to... Wait, what? Shipping is going to cost me US$37.99? I'm buying $17.97 of product and it's going to cost me more than twice that in shipping fees? I leave that site and move on. Sale strike three.

I start hanging out on TSN and Badger & Blade, waiting for bargains when other shavers clear their dens. It works much better. I've indulged in a soap spree over the last three weeks, and I'm looking forward to trying everything when it arrives.

 

[parastang]

You could always buy a synthetic brush....

 

[Screech8710]

That sounds pretty frustrating. Have you looked at European companies? If not, maybe you will have better luck, and find better shipping costs, from them.


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[leather & steel]

You could always buy a synthetic brush....

I could also buy a cartridge razor and cheap shaving foam. [emoji1]

Anyway I found that apparently no one cares about boars, because my Semogue boar brush didn't have any issues being shipped from the US as part of the ikon razor kit I bought.

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[leather & steel]

That sounds pretty frustrating. Have you looked at European companies? If not, maybe you will have better luck, and find better shipping costs, from them.


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I looked at the UK first, then looked away quickly when I discovered the exchange rate. However, thanks to the forums I have now discovered shaving.ie, which looks like a winner, especially given the very good shipping rate and the fact that I'm buying at the ex-VAT price.

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[OkieStubble]

There is a very simple answer for your shipping woes. You're going to have to move.

 

[Razorcan]

I hear that there is a thing on the internets called EBAY.Try it ,you might be surprised ....

 

[leather & steel]

I hear that there is a thing on the internets called EBAY.Try it ,you might be surprised ....

I hate eBay. It's a great place to get sniped or end up paying more than you should. I never buy anything there. On contrast I've found the marketplace on B&B to be excellent.

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[Razorcan]

I hate eBay. It's a great place to get sniped or end up paying more than you should. I never buy anything there. On contrast I've found the marketplace on B&B to be excellent.

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I have heard that there is a thing called PAYPAL that offers 100% buyer protection ,give it a try you might change your mind.

EBAY definitely offers the CHEAPEST wet shaving deals out there (many items come with FREE international shipping)

 

[leather & steel]

I have heard that there is a thing called PAYPAL that offers 100% buyer protection ,give it a try you might change your mind.

EBAY definitely offers the CHEAPEST wet shaving deals out there (many items come with FREE international shipping)

I worked in customer service for three years, don't get me started on PayPal disputes. But anyway, it doesn't solve the other problems with eBay from my of view. The best part of the marketplace here is that it's part of a community, an informed and well educated community, and a community with a common moral standard. Unlike eBay.

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[Slash McCoy]

I hate eBay. It's a great place to get sniped or end up paying more than you should. I never buy anything there. On contrast I've found the marketplace on B&B to be excellent.

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B&B can indeed be excellent at times. You never know what you're gonna see here for sale or trade.

Getting sniped on Fleabay? No big deal. You can snipe too, if you want, come to think of it. And if you pay more than you should, then you were bidding too high. I always figure if I bid on an item that is not rare or scarce or highly specialized, and I win more than 10% of my auctions, then I am bidding too high. Be patient.

I have never heard of a badger brush that couldn't be shipped internationally. All of my badger brushes are from China, actually. Boar is not endangered. Nor is horse. I have a Virginia Sheng horse brush that I kinda like. Is trade/travel between Taiwan and China currently restricted? Overseas shipping from China costs almost nothing. I suspect the government subsidizes the shipping industry to help keep foreign markets viable for their goods. Most stuff I buy from China ships free to the U.S. which is quite a bit further than Taiwan is. Too bad they don't make a good DE blade or a good soap or cream, but as for brushes, while some are garbage, a few brands are quite good. They make some junk DE razors but I have seen a couple that were okay. I buy a LOT of Chinese straights, but I basically use them as unfinished blanks to create something much more refined and functional. They have issues. However a lot of guys have had success with Gold Dollar or ZY razors, unmodified, just honed.

You have a potentially good and cheap source for a lot of your shaving needs just a short boat ride away.

I feel your pain, on shipping from other sources. It sucks to pay twice what an item costs, to ship it. I guess you just have to decide sometimes whether it is worth it or not. Consider the shipping cost to be part of the price. If a $30 (including shipping) puck of soap is too expensive, well, then it is too expensive. There are worse fates than having to use canned stuff.

You might want to look into making your own soap. If there is a market for it there, you might even be able to sell it locally.

You are probably not alone. There must be other wet shavers in Taiwan, who have found their own solutions to the supply problem.

 

[adamchur]

Have you tried buying on eBay ?
I've never had problems buying horsehair and badger hair brushes from sellers in China
They ship to Spain, so I can't see why they can't ship to Taiwan
Also there must be 101 eBayers in India, Russia, Turkey, China and various European countries who sell razors, blades and soaps and ship worldwide

 

[Cash_Stronomer]

And I thought here in Canada it was getting bad!

 

[leather & steel]

Getting sniped on Fleabay? No big deal. You can snipe too, if you want, come to think of it. And if you pay more than you should, then you were bidding too high. I always figure if I bid on an item that is not rare or scarce or highly specialized, and I win more than 10% of my auctions, then I am bidding too high. Be patient.

But eBay simply cannot beat the marketplace here and on TSN. Here's what I picked up this week in a single sale. All of these were unopened.

* PannaCrema Namaste, retail $14.76 ($17.99 @ Italian Barber), sold to me for $5
* PannaCrema Labdano, retail $14.76 ($17.99 @ Italian Barber), sold to me for $5
* PannaCrema Vetiver, retail $14.76 ($17.99 @ Italian Barber), sold to met for $5
* Provence Sante Verlain, retail $10, sold to me for $5
* Provence Sante Green Tea, retail $10, sold to me for $5
* RazoRock MCMXXIV Italian Master Barber Limited Edition (78/100), retail $20, sold to me for $10

In the same sale I even picked up a small jar of Martin De Snobbery (Domino), for $20. And the total shipping fee for all seven soaps was $35 by air, with tracking. That's worth paying for.

I have never heard of a badger brush that couldn't be shipped internationally.

Let me introduce you to the US Fish and Wildlife Services. This is what my US freight forwarder told me when I asked for them to forward the badger brush I had bought from Amazon.

The merchandise received is subject US Fish and Wildlife Services’ (USFWS) Regulations (US Title 50 Code of Federal Regulations (50CFR) – Wildlife and Fisheries).

The following item requires that we file Form 3-177 (Declaration for Importation or Exportation of Fish or Wildlife) before exporting to you: Badger brush

We will apply for the export declaration with USFWS on your behalf for a fee of $35. This process may add up to three additional days to the processing of your shipment. This shipment will also require additional export documentation which has an additional fee of $50.

Please understand, there will be a delay of your item shipping. You will see in your account that your items have shipped, complete with a tracking number, however there will be no movement on the shipment. The reason for this is because we are unable to apply for the Form 3-177 until after your item has shipped and a tracking number is provided. There is typically a delay of 2-5 business days for shipping, however it can be longer depending on the USFWS agency.

PLEASE NOTE: DHL AND FEDEX ARE THE ONLY SHIPPING OPTIONS SHOULD YOU APPROVE THE ABOVE. IF YOU ARE SHIPPING TO RUSSIA, USPS IS AVAILABLE FOR SHIPPING.

So that's a $35 export declaration and $50 export documentation I have to pay for, and I can only have it shipped DHL or FedEx. All this for a humble $40 badger brush. Obviously the US government is pretty sensitive about animal products leaving the country.

Is trade/travel between Taiwan and China currently restricted? Overseas shipping from China costs almost nothing.

Sure, we can buy all kinds of stuff from China, and have it shipped for silly money. It's a good way to buy a lot of electronic products which are made in China for Taiwan companies anyway, and sold cheaply through Hong Kong. But for shaving gear? No.

China is not the way to go if you're looking for a simple Simpson S1 Best Badger, or even a good DE razor (I recently purchased a black Standard, and a Fatip Nickle Grande very cheaply from the forums; one of them was thrown into the sale almost free), or a few tubs of Sapone Di Paolo on special for 50% off (he had an anniversary sale recently). And obviously it's not the source for the fun stuff like Tabac, Cella, and Prosaro, or the old favourites like Dr Harris and TOBS, and definitely not the fancy stuff like Le Pere Lucien, PannaCrema, Provence Sante, and the ever popular Martin De Wallet-Raid.

As you say, "Too bad they don't make a good DE blade or a good soap or cream". Brushes? Yeah they likely have some good ones. After all virtually everyone's badger hair comes from China, so they've probably figured out what to do with it by now. But I wouldn't know a good brush from complete rubbish, if I was just looking at a photo on the internet. And call me a brush snob (I'm not really; my first brush was a Semague boar, and I still have it; I only have two other brushes), but I would rather buy a well known product with a good pedigree and know I'm getting what I paid for. As it happens I recently picked up a Vulvix #374 on Massdrop for $40 including shipping to Taiwan, which was great. Thanks to these forums I've also discovered artisans such as Whipped Dog and The Golden Nib, both of which offer high quality brushes at extraordinarily good prices, with sensible shipping rates.

You might want to look into making your own soap. If there is a market for it there, you might even be able to sell it locally.

I actually know a couple of people who make and sell their own soap, and I have even been wondering about dabbling myself. Taiwan has some interesting flora which might stew up well in the pot.

You are probably not alone. There must be other wet shavers in Taiwan, who have found their own solutions to the supply problem.

Right now these forums are proving an absolute blessing. Additionally, thanks to a mention on these forums, I've also discovered shaving.ie, which has a wide range of the kind of products I want, and very reasonable international shipping. So that's going to fill the gap nicely. Pity they don't stock Martin De Bank-Robber, but if I like the one I've just bought I may feel moved to purchase the Brain Bowl directly from France.

 

[BSAGuy]

Hope you get it figured out.

 

[leather & steel]

Hope you get it figured out.

I think a combination of these forums and shaving.ie will see me through. It's astonishing what I can pick up here.

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[Cash_Stronomer]

That thing about the fish and wildlife services is pretty interesting indeed! Crazy even!

 

[Ad Astra]

What this means: you can start a shave soap company over there with NO competition!


AA

 

[leather & steel]

America is head and shoulders above the rest off the world in artisan soaps. Look chief, if you want hit me with a private message and I'll help you out. I know a way to get them to you cheaper.

You're not wrong. I've seen some impressive US soaps on these forums. As soon as Sapone Di Paolo launched his incredibly generous "50% off all soaps" sale, I just snapped up three and had them sent to my wife's brother in New York, to forward on to me (his willingness to do so is very likely not un-coincidental to the fact that he works in the mail room of a large company; I don't ask questions). Thanks for the generous offer, I'll contact you by PM.

That thing about the fish and wildlife services is pretty interesting indeed! Crazy even!

Mate, came as a total shock to me. Had no idea.

 

[leather & steel]

What this means: you can start a shave soap company over there with NO competition!

You make a good point. Maybe I should learn something about how to make shaving soap. There are plenty of people making artisan bath soap here, so it shouldn't be hard to get the relevant materials.