Carts are not the enemy.

[sub vet]

If B&B eliminated all the repetitious posts;

How many shaves on a DE blade,
How do you clean your razor,
How often do you clean your razor,
What's the best blade for XXX,
How do you clean your blade,
How often do you clean your blade,
How do you clean your brush,
How often do you clean your brush
etc.,

the site would cease to exist!

Perhaps a better B&B search function would eliminate some of the repetitious questions. I'm getting to where I just ignore many of them, my opinions are generally outside of the B&B norm anyway.

 

[MicBaldy]

It is shaving, not religious dogma Gentlemen.

Deep breaths everyone.

Once again, people getting their panties in a bunch over nothing. So it goes with these types of threads.

 

[matt71]

All I know is this:

With carts, I used to hate shaving.

Having gone DE, I love it and look forward to my next shave.


Now can somebody start a lawnmower forum or something so I can't wait to cut the lawn again?

 

[August West]

Now can somebody start a lawnmower forum or something so I can't wait to cut the lawn again?

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/2853392/john-deere-l110

 

[DaltonGang]

I think I'm the only one who knows the real truth, and everyone else is wrong. Ptttthhhhhh.

 

[DaltonGang]

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/2853392/john-deere-l110

Souped up lawnmowers??? I would go to that site.

 

[matt71]

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/2853392/john-deere-l110

Not working, not working!

Maybe Rick Harrison has to do an infomercial or something...

 

[imfallen_angel]

imfallen_angel et al, I think you guys might be reading too much into things. Just like with a DE, SE or straight, you can get a great shave from a cart. I did not say you will, only that you (the general "you") can. At least, I can and I'm an idiot who hasn't figured out honing after nearly three years at it.

I read nothing of arrogance or an attempt to belittle others in the posts saying that carts can (keyword "can") produce good results. Just like straights don't agree with some folks, I am sure that the same lies true for carts, or DEs, or SEs, or curry chicken, or hot sauce, etc...

Live and let live.

Live and let live?

Seriously.. you say "you can get a great shave from a cart"... and that's the point.. NO.. NO.. NO.. NO... AND FREAKING NO.

It's not the technique, it's the way they are made... they do NOT work for everyone, and that's IS a FACT.

You read nothing of arrogance or belittling????.. you just did it! You are being condescending in regard to the question of WHY so many of us have switched.

Live and let live?

How about the only real saying on here that has respect... your freaking mileage may vary and leave it at that.

If carts works for you because you figured out that you weren't doing it right.. more power to you... but seriously, some of us HAVE done it back and forth, up and down, in every way and carts are NOT what worked for us.

To have yet another thread explaining how "we" do it wrong... well, I'm sure you can imagine what my non-polite response is.

If this thread would have been a non-insulting one, it would have started with:

"Guys, I'm an SH#&^$D that couldn't use carts, and now, thanks to the experience I got from going DE, I learned techniques that I've been able to apply to my shaving with carts and now can do it."

And not making a universal claim that "technique IS THE problem".... it might have been the OP's problem, but no one else's.

Even the OP was more respecful that you were.

 

[Executive Contour]

I wonder if toothbrush forums have this level of drama.

 

[Michael Spotts]

The true enemy isn't blade type or technique but attitude about shaving. For many shaving is nothing more than a chore that they have to get done. Finding some enjoyment from shaving either because of the blade type, Shave regimen, Choice in soaps/creams or even after shave is what makes the difference.

 

[Kentos]

It's funny, cause the DE guys think carts are not as good, and the straight razor guys think similarly of DEs. Then you will get the subset of Straight guys who think synthetic edges are not as good as a Japanese Natural stone edge. And so it goes on and on. There are no absolutes in our "hobby".

 

[Eeyore]

I wonder if toothbrush forums have this level of drama.

If they have the same level of snobbism? Then probably yes

 

[2fast]

Well said Kentos

 

[aschueler]

I am unsure if what I am going to type is going to help, but I think I can see how a disagreement is shaping here where people are JUST missing what the other is saying. Of course, it could also be general internet bullcrap as it is quite difficult to communicate in this manner as in real life where you can read facial expressions, hear tones, etc.

First, the original post from Homer J essentially states that when he used the shaving tecnhiques he has learned from DE shaving, the cartridges he used again gave him a great shave. I can believe this. There are lots of people who get great shaves from all kinds of different techniques.

Next, IMfallen indicates that cartridges don't work for him; there are some people that cartridges just aren't going to work for at all. Sadly, I am one of them. I can sympathize with IMfallen because I am one of those people. I was using a bowl and brush and witch hazel when in high school and moving to college, no one else had ever heard of shaving that way that I knew. For perspective, I graduated HS and moved to college in 1989. Back then, it was one of the most frustrating things in the world, because every time I shaved I bled or got a rash. Every time. If I did only WTG, I looked like I didn't shave. Anything close to shaving and bumps, burn, ingrown hairs. I remember nearly every day being frustrated by being unable to properly shave, despite an increased amount of prep time, care with angles, etc etc. My father doesn't have the same kind of beard for whatever reason (mother's side? Skipped a generation? My grand grandfather was Greek on his side, I don't know), so he didn't understand. "Just go with the grain, your face will get used to it". It didn't.

As the cartridges advanced, I was able to get a better shave, but for 20 yrs I have had a chronically irritated neck. Among other issues. People like me and IM get a little worked up when we realized that there is a better way that might work, as most people just don't understand. We seem to not be able to physically (no matter what technique) get a proper shave from a multi blade cartridge.

Most people can, and have no idea how annoying it is to be in the other camp.

So there is a large amount of pent-up frustration there when someone pipes up and says "cartridges ain't all bad". If you are unlucky enough to have hairs and skin like mine, there isn't a good way to shave with carts. Yes, I understand you guys where saying "in general", but for some people we just can't get them to work no matter what. Those of us in the can't shave with carts camp sometimes get the feeling that others think we just suck at shaving, so the defenses come up with that, esp if you consider how hard we have tried to shave properly.

To introduce levity, I hope the following link works.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEKyoBxXcHk

 

[Eeyore]

Well, Proraso Green is also considered to be a great soap, and it sets my skin on fire.

I can't remember me having ever stated that Proraso is crap, and never can give a good shave, and that all the Proraso lovers don't know what they are talking about.

So why the strong reaction against cartridges?

 

[MicBaldy]

This is started to get intense.

 

[imfallen_angel]

The reaction is NOT about the carts... it's about being told that if carts don't work for you it's because of your technique.

Carts for me, are like the Proraso for you, it just doesn't work.

I've been using Proraso white and still have yet to crack my green tub open... I love the white, but I have no clue how green will be for me.

I also use a shavette because I just don't have the patience for the honing of an actual straight, and that gives me a taste" of what straight-shaving is like, but I don't assume anything. The awesome thing about the shavette is that while I was worried to use my DE the first few things, fear of cutting myself, etc.... with the shavette, I didn't even blink, and had no trouble. I still find and prefer DE, but the shavette has been great when I need to remove a few week's growth.

For carts, most of us used them, used them a LOT, many years, trying different approaches, techniques, switching from one brand/model to another in the hopes that we can't crack the best way to not end up with painful irritation, etc. Trying different soaps, goops, etc.

Then we find DE (or straight) shaving and it's like night and day, a revelation... everything we did with the carts that didn't work, does work with a DE razor.

I tried the angles, the pressure, the mapping of the face, I tried so many types of goops, etc. so many models, including electrics, and nothing worked, I'd always have irritation, burn, weepers, cuts, ingrowns, etc. (plus the clogging and having to smash the carts on side of sink to get the crap out) then, my first few DE shaves caused some weeping until I understood the difference in pressure in holding the metal razor as opposed to a plastic "toy", I've never had a bad shave since.

It really is a case of "YMMV" for everyone in here... we have the basics universal issues, the learning curve about the angle and pressure is a normal thing for everyone, but overall, after spending a HUGE part of my life hating to shave, to discover that thanks to my father never "mastering" DE shaving and switching to carts while I was young, the fact that stores do NOT carry DE razors/blades, I never had a choice until ordering online became possible.

If I didn't have a choice, I would be buying the carts with the single blade on the back because those were the only things that ever worked for me (and made me go and try DE razors)... it was the single blade, and that I could control the angle and such.

But "snobbism"? sorry but no.. it's about finally finding something that works.

Some (many on here) have make it into a hobby which is another story, but when I talk with someone and somehow shaving is a topic, I simply state... "I had lots of issues with cartridges, switched to DE "old school" shaving and it works for me... if you're having trouble with cart shaving, you should consider giving it a try and see if it's for you, but consider that there's a learning curve."

 

[Eeyore]

For carts, most of us used them, used them a LOT, many years, trying different approaches, techniques, switching from one brand/model to another in the hopes that we can't crack the best way to not end up with painful irritation, etc. Trying different soaps, goops, etc.

Then we find DE (or straight) shaving and it's like night and day, a revelation... everything we did with the carts that didn't work, does work with a DE razor.

I appreciate this is how it went for you.

But why do you assume that is the case for "most of us"?

 

[MicBaldy]

The reaction is NOT about the carts... it's about being told that if carts don't work for you it's because of your technique.

Carts for me, are like the Proraso for you, it just doesn't work.

I've been using Proraso white and still have yet to crack my green tub open... I love the white, but I have no clue how green will be for me.

I also use a shavette because I just don't have the patience for the honing of an actual straight, and that gives me a taste" of what straight-shaving is like, but I don't assume anything. The awesome thing about the shavette is that while Iwas worried to use my DE the first few things, fear of cutting myself, etc.... with the shavette, I didn't even blink, and had no trouble. I still find and prefer DE, but the shavette has been great when I need to remove a few week's growth.

For carts, most of us used them, used them a LOT, many years, trying different approaches, techniques, switching from one brand/model to another in the hopes that we can't crack the best way to not end up with painful irritation, etc. Trying different soaps, goops, etc.

Then we find DE (or straight) shaving and it's like night and day, a revelation... everything we did with the carts that didn't work, does work with a DE razor.

I tried the angles, the pressure, the mapping of the face, I tried so many types of goops, etc. so many models, including electrics, and nothing worked, I'd always have irritation, burn, weepers, cuts, ingrowns, etc. (plus the clogging and having to smash the carts on side of sink to get the crap out) then, my first few DE shaves caused some weeping until I understood the difference in pressure in holding the metal razor as opposed to a plastic "toy", I've never had a bad shave since.

It really is a case of "YMMV" for everyone in here... we have the basics universal issues, the learning curve about the angle and pressure is a normal thing for everyone, but overall, after spending a HUGE part of my life hating to shave, to discover that thanks to my father never "mastering" DE shaving and switching to carts while I was young, the fact that stores do NOT carry DE razors/blades, I never had a choice until ordering online became possible.

If I didn't have a choice, I would be buying the carts with the single blade on the back because those were the only things that ever worked for me (and made me go and try DE razors)... it was the single blade, and that I could control the angle and such.

I think we get it. Carts don't work for you and many others, and yet they do work for many other people. No one is right and no one is wrong. Have I summed up this entire thread?

 

[Eeyore]

I think we get it. Carts don't work for you and many others, and yet they do work for many other people. No one is right and no one is wrong. Have I summed up this entire thread?

Except that maybe party A wants to believe they work for no-one, and party B wants to believe they work for everyone?