Doubting the straight razor shave.

[Ignatius]

Some cartridges give an easy, close shave. They're very intuitive. I'm thinking of the M3 as regards closeness. The Sensor and Fusion didn't shave as close for me, not sure why. I shaved wih a DE for a long time reconciled to the fact they didn't give as close a shave as an M3. I didn't mind much - it was much better for my skin. THe cartrdiges always caused neck redness and irritation for me after a while. Then, this year, I have used a Merkur Slant every day. My whole set up has been very similar, actually. Now I can get as close a shave, in two passes, with this razor as I could with the M3.

ps Cartridge users here seem to favour the older two blade models, but the M3 was better for me, I think. If it wasn't for the excessive amount of pivot it would be their best cartridge. The blades seem to be set at a less aggressive angle, but shave closer and give less neck irritation/ymmv

 

[Manco]

I love the history of shaving with a straight it's what my father did and his father before him, and every morning being able to look forward to a shave, instead of dreading it!

 

[BlackBard]

Partial Quote: As someone that has been wet shaving for about eight weeks can I say something?
I too started because disposable/throw away 3,4 and 5 blade gimicks were costing 14 bucks and lasted two months (maybe). I was getting nicks and weepers at first. But something else happened. I began to like shaving. I went to "Youtube", and found this site to learn proper technique and I wanted quality materials. I took the time to get the lather where it worked best for me.
So here's the deal for me. I will not go back to the plastic cartridge blade. I do get closer shaves now with the time I have given to DE shaving. I enjoy the shave and the preparation before the shave. It takes longer sure but the rewards after the shave make it all worth while. I can tell a difference for the better and I truly believe it will only get better from here.

My observation: As one of the few advocates of cartridge razors (particularly the Mach 3) here on B&B, I would like to point out that your shaves got better - and will probably continue to do so - once you learned proper technique, started using better products and learned to how to make better lather.

I maintain that anyone can have an enjoyable and successful shaving experience, using any razor, provided that he/she knows how to shave and uses appropriate products. YMMV, but I'm betting that if you were to go back to whatever cartridge razor you last used, after having mastered DE shaving, you would be surprised at the quality shave you would get.

I have been enjoying shaving since I took up shaving soap and a badger brush over 45 years ago. Good lather and technique are keys to a superior shaving experience.

 

[Ignatius]

I maintain that anyone can have an enjoyable and successful shaving experience, using any razor, provided that he/she knows how to shave and uses appropriate products.

I have tried using a cartridge razor (Sensor and M3) after having learnt better technique. The results were the same. Close shaves, lots of irritation. Can use them for a one off, but after several days my neck is like a welders workbench.

 

[Thebigspendur]

My own observation: The reason Gillette came out with their first razor to begin with wasn't because it bested a straight in the performance dept. It was a business decision to make more money betting the customers would prefer the convenience of a DE over the pain in the butt routine of the straight and they were right. I maintain that to continue their business model and extract the most profit out their customers they have to introduce new products with all the Madison Ave Hype which then allows them to continually raise the price of everything and cause folks to buy the latest and greatest.

I've shaved with just about everything out there from electrics to catridges and DEs and straights for years at a time and though the right blade razor combination in a DE can come very close to a straight I've never experienced anything to best a straight. Of course while I was using them I thought I had the cat's meow but I proved myself wrong.

Most folks really don't understand a straight to begin with or don't ever fully master it. Many make remarks like no barber could ever shave me better than I could myself which historically speaking is a comment which just shows the ignorance of people concerning straights and history.

Of course in the end we all use what we prefer and as long as we're happy that's really all that matters. It's all in fun.

My observation: As one of the few advocates of cartridge razors (particularly the Mach 3) here on B&B, I would like to point out that your shaves got better - and will probably continue to do so - once you learned proper technique, started using better products and learned to how to make better lather.

I maintain that anyone can have an enjoyable and successful shaving experience, using any razor, provided that he/she knows how to shave and uses appropriate products. YMMV, but I'm betting that if you were to go back to whatever cartridge razor you last used, after having mastered DE shaving, you would be surprised at the quality shave you would get.

I have been enjoying shaving since I took up shaving soap and a badger brush over 45 years ago. Good lather and technique are keys to a superior shaving experience.

 

[StylinLA]

This is a labor of love and it's not for everybody.

I've been at the DE for 9 months and can now easily best the shave I get with a cartridge. I'm not averse to using a cartridge either. Trying the new Proglide today.

I have no experience with straight razors, buy my gut tells me it's a longer learning curve that takes even more patience than the switch to a DE.

I can get a great shave with a Fusion. We'll see about Proglide.

But I know I love the experience of using my Merkur 38c and Astra blades.
I look forward to shaving every single day. The DE takes longer, and there's a fair amount of touch up involved. But it is as smooth or smoother and it definitly lasts longer.

 

[netsurfr]

I use whatever appeals to me at the moment.

 

[T_M]

I'm sorry, but I just can't see any logic or demonstrable proof of the OP's contention that "it's simply not possible for a straight to give as close a shave as a modern cartridge" (paraphrase). From a metallurgical standpoint, a blade is a blade is a blade. In the last 1000 years, we've improved the consistency of steel chemistry and quality control, but a keen edge is a keen edge. You could have found a Roman or a Viking smith that got lucky with a particular batch of iron and crafted an exceptional blade. The only real difference between then and now was that we can do it in huge quantities and do it repeatedly.

I could probably show you a micrograph of a straight razor edge and of a Fusion cartridge edge and you couldn't tell the difference if I picked the straight carefully. It's iron and carbon of a certain measurable hardness ground down at a certain angle guys, it's not subject to debate - it's quantifiable.

The only variables that are left to you then are cutting angle at the skin, pressure of the blade on the skin and speed of the cut - that's about it. With a straight or a DE you also have a larger mass of metal behind the edge "supporting" it - that changes the dynamics of the cut a bit as well.

With a Fusion cart or similar - angle is set and your ability to apply pressure is limited by the construction of the cartridge. If you happen to be one of the folks for which this combo works, you probably get an awesome shave. I'm not denying that - because a blade is a blade. Don't just assume that works for all of us though, and that we just haven't tried hard enough with the Gillette products or something like that.

With a straight and to some extent with a DE, you get control over those variables - angle, pressure, speed. You even have the opportunity to hone the razor to perhaps a finer edge than Gillette deems "profitable". In the case of a DE maybe the blade company decided to take their sharpening to another level and therefore charge a bit more for it (Feather anyone? )

The problem most people have with straights and DEs is that control of those variables takes time and practice. Some people don't need to make that investment (if the carts "fit" their face) and some people don't want to.

Anyway, of course somebody can get just as close a shave with a straight or DE as they can with a cartridge razor. It's just that some skilled people with a straight can do it over and over...and some, apparently, can't. That's no reason to go and make sweeping statements denouncing everything but a Fusion cart. You can get there if you work at it and don't give up. There is very little that's new under the sun with blades. These days we can get them more consistently sharp, or make them last longer with specific alloys or coatings, but a cutting edge is a cutting edge whether it's obsidian or bronze or steel or boron nitride.

Lastly, I agree in general about the wealth of info that we have quickly available to us on the internet being better than what was available back in King Gillette's day, but on the resources available to learn how to shave I think I've got to disagree. How is sitting in one of the huge multitude of barbers' shops weekend after weekend watching guys get a shave and then going and trying it yourself any different than watching Mantic's videos? Sure, you had to go to the shop, but I'm sure that you could ask a barber for some advice from time to time. Heck, they couldn't shave everybody every day so I bet a lot of them were the source of products too. Just like Art of Shaving will sell you a fancy handle for a Mach3 for those days when you can't come in for a "real" shave.

Trying to learn how to use a straight nowadays is tough because it's a dying art - there is a lack of local qualified teachers. It would be quite a bit harder to do without the internet. I don't think that has anything to do with how hard it was to learn to shave 80-100 years ago. Learning curve was the same, but it was just something most people knew how to do - it couldn't have been that hard to ask around (if it turned out your dad or brother or grandfather wasn't around or wasn't very good).

In fact, if anybody could chime in with a story along those lines (maybe from a father or grandfather?) I'd love to hear it.


---------T_M

 

[michiganlover]

I could probably show you a micrograph of a straight razor edge and of a Fusion cartridge edge and you couldn't tell the difference if I picked the straight carefully. It's iron and carbon of a certain measurable hardness ground down at a certain angle guys, it's not subject to debate - it's quantifiable.

I think the O.P. has bought into the supposed "lift and cut" theory espoused by Gillette about multi-blade cartridges. I consider that to be marketing mumbo jumbo, as I have never seen any science that actually proves the concept.

If you buy into the marketing hype, it then seems likely that cartridges must shave the closest, as they are capable of shaving the hair below the level of the skin.

As near as I can tell, it's an unproven theory that may have no basis in actual science.

 

[BlackBard]

I think the O.P. has bought into the supposed "lift and cut" theory espoused by Gillette about multi-blade cartridges. I consider that to be marketing mumbo jumbo, as I have never seen any science that actually proves the concept.

If you buy into the marketing hype, it then seems likely that cartridges must shave the closest, as they are capable of shaving the hair below the level of the skin.

As near as I can tell, it's an unproven theory that may have no basis in actual science.

I have been trying to find something on the net that would back me up, but so far no success. It seems to me that I read, within the past 2 years, that the "lift and cut" hype from Gillette has been disproved. You will notice that they no longer use it in their current advertising. If anyone can provide a link to a story about this, I would be very appreciative.

 

[luvmysuper]

I have been trying to find something on the net that would back me up, but so far no success. It seems to me that I read, within the past 2 years, that the "lift and cut" hype from Gillette has been disproved. You will notice that they no longer use it in their current advertising. If anyone can provide a link to a story about this, I would be very appreciative.

You may be thinking of the Schick lawsuit against Gillette over the advertising that the M3 Power vibration lifted the hair away from the face to allow it to be cut closer.
The court ruled the advertising was false and that there was no evidence to support the claim.
Gillette retracted that ad campaign.

 

[Jorocom]

Although I've been intruiged by straight razors I don't think I'll ever have the nerve or patience to use one, and the only time my face will get a straight shave is in a barber's chair. My hat's off to the gentlemen who use straights... It takes a great deal of skill and guts!

 

[luvmysuper]

Although I've been intruiged by straight razors I don't think I'll ever have the nerve or patience to use one, and the only time my face will get a straight shave is in a barber's chair. My hat's off to the gentlemen who use straights... It takes a great deal of skill and guts!

I used to think the same thing. Now I are one.
Give it some time, the bug will bite.

 

[Tyronious]

There's not too much wrong with catridges razors. They give a quicker shave than DE's and straights.

The only problems I have with cartridges are;

1. They irritate my neck area badly. I can get a BBS smooth shave on my entire face, but I always end up with bumps on neck area shaving with cartridges. Never with my DE.

2. Of course, the cost. The new Proglides are $32 FOR A REFILL OF 8!!! 2 years ago I paid $22 for my Merkur 180 Long Handle Razor, $8 for some Van Der Hagen Soap + Boar Brush, and $2 for 10 blades at Wal-Mart = $32 for everything!

 

[Alec79]

My own observations.

Now that I've taken an interest in shaving I always like to experiment. I haven't tried a straight but in the past month, I have shaved with a Bic disposable, a Wilkinson Classic (with Bic Platinum), an EJ87 (with Tesco blade), a Gillette GII plus (with genuine Gillette cart) a Gillette Contour (generic store brand cart) and Wilkinson Sword Protector (genuine WS cart) and have had a DFS with no irritation from any of them. My honest opinion is that technique and good preparation are more important than the actual razor.

 

[BobbyEwing]

Straight razors were common and their use pretty much mandatory for anyone wanting to shave. Most men were taught to to use them at an early shaving age by father, uncles or anyone else that shaved. It was a common skill, just like many skills, that have fallen by the wayside due to modern conveniences. People learned to preserve food, make sausages, knit clothes, and make alcohol (such a wine) for their use. Who does these sort of things nowadays (excepting my parents who do all of the aforementioned activities)?

I think you are discounting the huge differences between people and people that existed during the 19th century. Sure, the rich upper class could afford to be well dressed, have a dapper haircut, clean clothes, wash every couple of days and be well shaved. I would guess that most of these people went to the barber quite frequently. Most people back then where however extremely poor compared to todays middle class. Personal hygiene was not a luxury people could readily afford, and at most, they went to the barbers before going to church each week. Wearing filthy and worn down clothes, washing once a month and beeing in a generally terrible state I am sure shaving wasn't a top priority when things like feeding your family by hard work in the fields or in the factories took up every waking hour.

I think we in general have a tendency to romanticize about "the olden days" when we splash genuine classic English shaving products on our faces, when the reality is that those products where reserved for a select few. Most peoples lives where misserable compared to ours.

I think that the growth of the wealthy middle class and the introduction of the safety razor pretty much coincided and that people shaving their own faces with a straight every day has never really been a common occurence: In the olden days a barber did it or you didn't shave at all for most of the week. As the modern society came upon us everyday shaving became a nessecity among people who couldn't afford going to the barbers every day, and thus the safety razor came about as a response to popular demand simply because few people could manage shaving themselves with a straight everyday.

 

[DE Shaver]

I think you are discounting the huge differences between people and people that existed during the 19th century. Sure, the rich upper class could afford to be well dressed, have a dapper haircut, clean clothes, wash every couple of days and be well shaved. I would guess that most of these people went to the barber quite frequently. Most people back then where however extremely poor compared to todays middle class. Personal hygiene was not a luxury people could readily afford, and at most, they went to the barbers before going to church each week. Wearing filthy and worn down clothes, washing once a month and beeing in a generally terrible state I am sure shaving wasn't a top priority when things like feeding your family by hard work in the fields or in the factories took up every waking hour.

I think we in general have a tendency to romanticize about "the olden days" when we splash genuine classic English shaving products on our faces, when the reality is that those products where reserved for a select few. Most peoples lives where misserable compared to ours.

I think that the growth of the wealthy middle class and the introduction of the safety razor pretty much coincided and that people shaving their own faces with a straight every day has never really been a common occurence: In the olden days a barber did it or you didn't shave at all for most of the week. As the modern society came upon us everyday shaving became a nessecity among people who couldn't afford going to the barbers every day, and thus the safety razor came about as a response to popular demand simply because few people could manage shaving themselves with a straight everyday.

I believe you may have misunderstood my post so let me clarify. It has nothing to do with the wealthy versus the poor or "romanticizing" the past. I have stated...

"Straight razors were common and their use pretty much mandatory for anyone wanting to shave."

Translation: If you wanted to shave in the "good ol' days", it was done with a straight razor.

This thread is about whether or not a straight razor can give a quality shave, not about who did, who can afford to and other societal constraints around straight razor shaving. So, in your opinion can a straight razor deliver a close shave that can equal today's cartridge?

 

[studioguy]

I'm just going to put this out there and see what gets thrown back.

I shave with a straight razor. I get a pretty great shave with it. However, I contend that there is NO WAY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH that it is possible to get as close a shave with a straight razor as you can with a cartridge razor like the Gilette Turbo/Fusion/whatever.

I just don't see how it is possible. I can slash at my face pass after pass for about a half hour and pretty soon the razor just won't catch any more stubble, and yet my face will only feel smooth when rubbing WITH the grain

OR

I can do 2 quick passes with a Gilette Fusion and have a shave so smooth that I feel no stubble at all, even when rubbing against the grain.

What says everyone? Given that I love the PROCESS of shaving, and enjoy using my straight razors because it provides me some time to focus and regroup, I doubt I'll give it up, but when I first got into shaving with it, I heard tell that the shave was closer than cartridges. It isn't, and I don't see how it could be.

No I don't work for Gilette, yes I love my Dovo, and no I'm not trying to bait anyone. I'm just starting to believe there is a real reason why most men don't use straight razors anymore, and it isn't just an issue of time and learning curves.

That's just not true at least for me and I shave with all three types (Cart, Safety and Straight). I can get a bbs from all three, but the Straight Razor shave is the smoothest and longest lasting and I have a fast growing beard like wires. The learning curved was long for a Straight, but after 6 months I was there.

 

[BlackBard]

You may be thinking of the Schick lawsuit against Gillette over the advertising that the M3 Power vibration lifted the hair away from the face to allow it to be cut closer.
The court ruled the advertising was false and that there was no evidence to support the claim.
Gillette retracted that ad campaign.

Maybe that was it. Thanks.

 

[BladeRunner001]

My take will be that this is because you are not doing it right. Those accustomed to cartridge shaving have done it for soooo long that's technique (if there's any associated with this kind of shaving) has become second nature to them

The str8 has a steep learning curve...much steeper that DE and certainly cartridge. Give it enough time...I guarantee you one thing: once you get your technique right, there's no comparison.

Once you get there, notable differences will be:

1. BBS shaves that last longer - you can probably achieve BBS with cartridge shaves, but not as long lasting...that was my experience during the dark days of cartridge shaving .

2. Healthier skin - there's too much pulling & tugging with cartridge...this leads to inflammation and irritation

However, if one is adamant about sticking to cartridge shaving, then at least loose the canned stuff...use REAL shaving creme/soap, etc...those are small things that make a huge difference, IMHO !!


Cheers,
Robert

I'm just going to put this out there and see what gets thrown back.

I shave with a straight razor. I get a pretty great shave with it. However, I contend that there is NO WAY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH that it is possible to get as close a shave with a straight razor as you can with a cartridge razor like the Gilette Turbo/Fusion/whatever.

I just don't see how it is possible. I can slash at my face pass after pass for about a half hour and pretty soon the razor just won't catch any more stubble, and yet my face will only feel smooth when rubbing WITH the grain

OR

I can do 2 quick passes with a Gilette Fusion and have a shave so smooth that I feel no stubble at all, even when rubbing against the grain.

What says everyone? Given that I love the PROCESS of shaving, and enjoy using my straight razors because it provides me some time to focus and regroup, I doubt I'll give it up, but when I first got into shaving with it, I heard tell that the shave was closer than cartridges. It isn't, and I don't see how it could be.

No I don't work for Gilette, yes I love my Dovo, and no I'm not trying to bait anyone. I'm just starting to believe there is a real reason why most men don't use straight razors anymore, and it isn't just an issue of time and learning curves.