Stone recommendation

[Eastcoast30]

I need to take out some chips. I find this can take forever. I have the Shapton 120, 220 and 320. I am returning the 120, as it does not cut; does not build slurry; and does not create swarf. It acts like a finishing stone. Thinking it might be sealed, I went over it with my 400 atoma forever - no help. Has anyone else experienced this? The 220 and 320 are fantastic cutters, building rapid slurry and swarf.

Can someone recommend a fast cutter or method for honing out chips?

 

[Multum in parvo]

I need to take out some chips. I find this can take forever. I have the Shapton 120, 220 and 320. I am returning the 120, as it does not cut; does not build slurry; and does not create swarf. It acts like a finishing stone. Thinking it might be sealed, I went over it with my 400 atoma forever - no help. Has anyone else experienced this? The 220 and 320 are fantastic cutters, building rapid slurry and swarf.

Can someone recommend a fast cutter or method for honing out chips?

Norton India fine/coarse - cheap as chips…

 

[Frank Shaves]

Shapton HR 500 is good for removing chips. I assume your Shapton stones are Professional. Not sure why they are not doing the job.

 

[Eastcoast30]

Shapton HR 500 is good for removing chips. I assume your Shapton stones are Professional. Not sure why they are not doing the job.

The 220 and 320 are great. The vendor is replacing the 120 for me. But even with the 220, it seems to take forever. I don't mind spending an hour or so to hone a great edge. But spending several hours just to get the chip out is too yedious for me. I wind up just putting the razor aside.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

But spending several hours just to get the chip out

How big a chip are we talking about?

 

[Eastcoast30]

How big a chip are we talking about?

About 1 millimeter, maybe 1.5 millimeter. Which means removing the entire existing bevel.

 

[ZeelandsRoem]

About 1 millimeter, maybe 1.5 millimeter. Which means removing the entire existing bevel.

That shouldn’t take that long with 220. Did you try to tape the spine and then apply more pressure on the edge? It should speed things up.

 

[Herrenberg]

Your 120 (assuming it's the Pro; I don't have the Glass) does not sound like my 120.

I agree with the Norton India Coarse/Fine suggestion.

 

[Herrenberg]

This is one of the few times I would suggest tape.

When I affirmed the Nortons, I actually had in my mind that you were talking about a knife. I have honed bevel-size chips out of a razor with my Shapton Glass 500, and I'd actually prefer that for razors, because of the tractable scratches it leaves behind, even at chip-removal pressures.

 

[Wid]

What you have should be good for removing chips. I really like the GS 500 for this.

If it's a bigger chip you can lift the spine to get it out, then reset the bevel with a layer or two of tape. If I use two layers I get the bevel set then go with one layer and set the bevel again. I tape till I'm on a 3K stone then remove the tape and hone as usual.

 

[J B Addis]

I am returning the 120, as it does not cut; does not build slurry; and does not create swarf. It acts like a finishing stone. Thinking it might be sealed, I went over it with my 400 atoma forever - no help.

It's not really practical or a good idea to try to lap a stone coarser than your lapping medium. It can damage the diamond plate, and will usually result in the top layer of the abrasive on the stone basically being dulled or burnished. You might try 60-80 grit sandpaper, silicon carbide powder, a concrete tile, etc, on the Shapton, as I've heard some of them need the outer layer removed.

 

[Legion]

Lift the spine like a pocket knife and use your diamond plate. Once the chip is about gone grab your bevel setter, lay the blade flat and make a new bevel.

 

[Christian1212]

I recently had to remove a chip from a razor and just used the 1k chosera. (Did not measure but just about the size of the bevel - hit the sink is how it got chipped). I did some light breadknifing it until about 90% of the chip was gone. Then I used 2 layers of tape and slurry until the chip was gone (bevel was close to being fixed by this point). Then I did 1 layer of tape to set the bevel and then no tape and things were back to running.

 

[lloydw]

the coarsest i use is the sg 500 - like others, i have had success lifting the spine to remove most of the chip, then double tape until bevel set fully on a 1 or 2k. I often then use 1 layer of tape from this 2k or even 4k. i use tape all the way to finishing stone. I havent had the need for serious breadknifing or coarse diamond plates for this

 

[CpnStumpy]

I saw this video (or another one from maggards) a long time ago and this has always worked for me. I go at a DMT but more or less this works perfectly, then reset the bevel and go about my business.

 

[JPO]

I need to take out some chips. I find this can take forever. I have the Shapton 120, 220 and 320. I am returning the 120, as it does not cut; does not build slurry; and does not create swarf. It acts like a finishing stone. Thinking it might be sealed, I went over it with my 400 atoma forever - no help. Has anyone else experienced this? The 220 and 320 are fantastic cutters, building rapid slurry and swarf.

Can someone recommend a fast cutter or method for honing out chips?

The only way to be able to utilize the potential of a coarse stone is to increase the pressure. Like others have said, to be able to do this with a straight razor without flexing the blade is to start with the spine raised a little. The chip don't need to be completely gone before you move to your next step with a layer tape, if you need to minimize material removal. Your bevel setter should be able to work quite fast too.
When you are bound by the limit of a flexible grind (if this is what you are honing) you can see from the table that a coarser stone might not be that much faster.
Stress is just force over area. When the abrasive particle gets bigger, you need to increase the force, or else you might not be working that much faster. The Atoma 1200 in the table is a good example. It is significantly faster then the 140 if the pressure is kept constant.
So if you are not raising the spine and jut honing flat with tape you might be working against your self, because you will be creating some deep striations that takes work to remove as you progress. You might not be saving that much time in the end.

 

[ZeelandsRoem]

The only way to be able to utilize the potential of a coarse stone is to increase the pressure. Like others have said, to be able to do this with a straight razor without flexing the blade is to start with the spine raised a little.

The blade will flex either way, whether you lift the spine with a few layers of tape or if you hold the spine lifted using your hands. To avoid flexing you need to lower the applied pressure or to apply pressure only on the edge or in its close proximity if a negligible amount of flexing is allowed.

So if you are not raising the spine and jut honing flat with tape you might be working against your self, because you will be creating some deep striations that takes work to remove as you progress. You might not be saving that much time in the end.

Taping the spine will lift the spine, although just a tiny bit. However, I don't see how lifting the spine even more creates shallower striations. Maybe you mean shorter length striations? Deeper striations in steel are created depending mainly on the size of the abrading particles, their shape, hardness, exerted pressure over these particles and steel hardness. There are other factors as well and as far as I know, angle is not a factor in this case. Can you detail why you think that?

Other than this, I do agree with everything else you said.

 

[JPO]

The blade will flex either way, whether you lift the spine with a few layers of tape or if you hold the spine lifted using your hands. To avoid flexing you need to lower the applied pressure or to apply pressure only on the edge or in its close proximity if a negligible amount of flexing is allowed.

The bevel will still flex, however you will not be increasing the bevel height, and some of the force will now travel directly through the blade.

Taping the spine will lift the spine, although just a tiny bit. However, I don't see how lifting the spine even more creates shallower striations. Maybe you mean shorter length striations?

It will not create shallower striations. You just start to cut in a slightly shorter bevel. If you chose to lift the spine to be able to increase the pressure you will also get deeper striation, but that is just a function of the force you apply. You just need enough force for the abrasive to cut effectively, and that is usually not allot.

I personally don't do it this way, because i don't have enough experience and control. You will be removing material at a fast rate. I just apply a layer or two of tape, and take my time. It usually only takes a few minutes on hollow ground blades.

As you can see from the previous table, the Atoma 1200 is able to remove material quite fast at a low pressure. So you can actually be working faster on the 1200 then on the 400 if you are not able to increase your pressure. The striations will also be more shallow.
So coarser is not always faster if you are working on delicate flexible blades with hard steel.

 

[Eastcoast30]

This is all great info - one pf the benefits of being a member of this forum. Thanks, guys!

 

[ZeelandsRoem]

The bevel will still flex, however you will not be increasing the bevel height, and some of the force will now travel directly through the blade.

It will not create shallower striations. You just start to cut in a slightly shorter bevel. If you chose to lift the spine to be able to increase the pressure you will also get deeper striation, but that is just a function of the force you apply. You just need enough force for the abrasive to cut effectively, and that is usually not allot.

Okay, so you indeed meant what I was assuming, (I called it "shorter length striations?" for lack of a better word). It's all clear now and I agree with you.

I personally don't do it this way, because i don't have enough experience and control. You will be removing material at a fast rate. I just apply a layer or two of tape, and take my time. It usually only takes a few minutes on hollow ground blades.

I did try once but I find it hard too risky on extra hollow grinds and I prefer to use a few layers of tape instead. I did push the limit a bit on the quarter hollow to see if it breaks as I did not care too much about that blade and to my surprise, it took a bit of pressure without causing any damage.

As you can see from the previous table, the Atoma 1200 is able to remove material quite fast at a low pressure. So you can actually be working faster on the 1200 then on the 400 if you are not able to increase your pressure. The striations will also be more shallow.
So coarser is not always faster if you are working on delicate flexible blades with hard steel.

Fully agree. I use the Atoma 1200 as well for this kind of job which is really fast if you can use a lot of pressure.