One more thought from the "Shapton Glass 500 is the perfect razor repair stone" side of the house: it's not talked about much, but these stones do glaze. The reason it's not talked about much is that they still cut really well when they glaze. I view this as a positive characteristic, mostly. I could shave of an SG 500 edge, and have shaved off of an SG 1000 edge, by using very light pressure for enough time that the stone starts burnishing more than cutting. But for repairs, you may want to refresh the surface a couple of times, especially if you are not using pressure sufficient to expose more of that superfast cutting surface.
Stone recommendation
- Thread starter Eastcoast30
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- #22
What would be the best way to refresh a stone of 500 grit down to 120 grit?
And what would be the best way to refresh a stone of 12,000 grit or finer?
Unfortunately my answer is partly the result of throwing money at the problem. For the Glass stones (except the Pro 120)
120 - I use a really coarse (cheap) 100 grit Sic giant stone sold for the purpose. If I didn't have that, I suppose I'd use a sidewalk, or the coarsest SiC powder (40-60 grit)
220 - Nanohone NL-4, or that same 100 grit SiC stone
320 - Nanohone NL-4, or 140/200 grit diamond plate. Above this grit, the Glass stones are much more similar to each other.
500 and up all the way to the finest, including JNats: Nanohone NL-10. It's a metallic-bonded diamond stone, with diamonds protruding far less than they do on a plate, so I have not had any problems with getting ridges or other disruptions that would prevent the stone from functioning as a very fine stone, as people say can happen with plates. The NL-10 (and the NL-8, its narrower sibling) does not have the flattening speed of a diamond plate, but I find it unequaled for surface prep on waterstones.
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- #24
Do you have a link for that 100 grit lapping stone?
No, I've had it for 30 years.
The Shapton Pro 120? Its not good for grunt work on razors really, it's hard and coarse. The steel will ride on the points, it's not an effective way to take off material. You can lap it well with an Atoma 140x. You can surface it with a worn 400. The diamonds are harder than the abrasive so unless you are doing this every day all day long it's fine.
I own the stone, and use it, and that is how Ive been lapping it for years.
But I use it for cutlery that I can lean into, not razors.
The 220 Pro is soft, but it works. The 320 Pro is less effective but less harsh too.
The GS versions are very similar but I think the 120 Pro is a better stone than the GS version, and the 320x GS is sorta slow.
When I take out significant chips, my main gun used to be the Chosera 400. The 600 is good too, which I have now, along with the Shaptons. The 600x striations are easier to deal with.
The 500x Glass Stone is good too, exp the double thick version. But to be honest I prefer the 600x Nani Pro/Cho.
I don't go for all the gymnastics on the stone, angles, bread knifing, and whathaveyou... I just hone the chip out normally. If I can get away with tape for part of the session I might do that. The trick to remember is to only do 1/2 - 2/3 of the work on any one grit. Don't take the whole chip out on the coarsest stone. Get close enough, then move up. Sneak up on the chip and you won't waste steel. Takes longer, wastes less though.
I own the stone, and use it, and that is how Ive been lapping it for years.
But I use it for cutlery that I can lean into, not razors.
The 220 Pro is soft, but it works. The 320 Pro is less effective but less harsh too.
The GS versions are very similar but I think the 120 Pro is a better stone than the GS version, and the 320x GS is sorta slow.
When I take out significant chips, my main gun used to be the Chosera 400. The 600 is good too, which I have now, along with the Shaptons. The 600x striations are easier to deal with.
The 500x Glass Stone is good too, exp the double thick version. But to be honest I prefer the 600x Nani Pro/Cho.
I don't go for all the gymnastics on the stone, angles, bread knifing, and whathaveyou... I just hone the chip out normally. If I can get away with tape for part of the session I might do that. The trick to remember is to only do 1/2 - 2/3 of the work on any one grit. Don't take the whole chip out on the coarsest stone. Get close enough, then move up. Sneak up on the chip and you won't waste steel. Takes longer, wastes less though.
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- #27
That's very good info, thanks!
You're welcome!
In general, I would recommend using gentle but firm pressure when honing and not really bearing down. However, when removing chips, you do need to apply some torque - otherwise, you will spend all day. That said, be patient and watch your work/progress like a hawk. Remember, you can only remove metal, not add metal. I would also measure the bevel angle before and after removing any chips, and consider using tape for at least the chip removal.
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- #30
I finally did get the chip out and and have set a nice bevel. I'm ready to move on to a 3k stone. The Shpton 220 and 320 worked perfectly. I carefully moved up to my Naniwa 600, 800 and 1k. The initial grief was caused by my Shapton 120 being very smooth and not cutting. I lapped it endlessly, thinking it might be sealed. The vendor took the stone back and sent me another Shapton 120. That one is perfect and highly abrasive. So I got stuck initially with a bad stone. I guess that happens. And it is good to have reliable vendors that will make things right.
The blade now slits cherry tomatoes with ease all along the edge. And I feel I can now hone it to perfection. I'm also glad to finally have a good array of stones.
The blade now slits cherry tomatoes with ease all along the edge. And I feel I can now hone it to perfection. I'm also glad to finally have a good array of stones.
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- #31
I also found a "husky" diamond stone at Home depot that is two-sided; 400 and 600 grit. It is very inexpensive and comes with a no-slip base. And while the Shapton stones do remove material, the Husky diamond stone at 600 removes material instantly. It is quite smooth and works well with a taped spine. One is actually honing with this stone, but the rate of material removal is fantastic.
Whatever have you done to make an SG500 glaze...? I've never managed it in normal use, or at least it dishes before it glazes, so I Atoma, and refresh the surface at the same time.
I did have one very peculiar experience though, when I flattened one using sandpaper once. Can't remember if it was SiC or AlOx but the resulting surface simply didn't cut at all, not even a little bit. Regardless of pressure stuff just glided over completely unscathed. It was slightly surreal.
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- #33
I have small blocks of atoma 400 and 1200. I use these as both dressing stones and slurry stones
"Glaze" is relative here, the stone still cuts, but not at all like it does when refreshed.
The answer is: significant numbers of very low-pressure strokes.
Ah right. Yeah my use of them is pretty much always in a more 'traditional' style - for knives and with a bit of pressure. And in that setting they're certainly friable enough / the surface refreshes well enough to never noticeably glaze in any way. But I can probably imagine that repeated, very low pressure use might be another kettle of fish.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
The Shapton Kuromaku is a great low level stone for excavating a lot of steel in a hurry. Never tried a 120 but I am thinking if it isn't biting, maybe try a tiny bit more pressure. Also, try honing a cheap knife on it and see what it does.
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