Dulled my blade on a finishing stone

[gregory56]

I wanted to maintain the edge of my blade, so I purchased an Arkansas black whetstone. I polished up my SR blade on it last night. I noticed in today’s shave that the blade was duller!

What I did:

• I put honing oil on the stone.
• Layed the blade on it, then rubbed the blade back and forth. Turned it over and repeated.
• Then I pushed the blade, edge first, down the stone a few times on each side.

What I examined the edge with a loop, I did a achieve a polish. But… the blade is duller.

What did I do wrong?

 

[Rumlover]

Idk.
Did the edge roll or microchipping?

With the edge facing a bright light and looking through the loupe at the bevel.
Are there any sparklies on the edge or a bright line?

Again if you are face the edge towards the bright light and looking through the loupe down onto the apex of the edge do you see sparkles or a line

 

[JPO]

These stones are unforgiving. One bad stroke were the spine lifts off the stone and the edge can be damaged. In my opinion you need a good edge before you move to the ark. What was the progression leading up to the ark?
How is the surface conditioned/prepared?

 

[Matt O]

Did you strop or shave straight off the stone?

If you did strop, are you experienced at stropping?

Vr

Matt

 

[gregory56]

Idk.
Did the edge roll or microchipping?

With the edge facing a bright light and looking through the loupe at the bevel.
Are there any sparklies on the edge or a bright line?

Again if you are face the edge towards the bright light and looking through the loupe down onto the apex of the edge do you see sparkles or a line

I see a line

 

[gregory56]

These stones are unforgiving. One bad stroke were the spine lifts off the stone and the edge can be damaged. In my opinion you need a good edge before you move to the ark. What was the progression leading up to the ark?
How is the surface conditioned/prepared?

The blade was honed for me on stones. I’ve been shaving off this honed edge for two or three weeks.

 

[gregory56]

Did you strop or shave straight off the stone?

If you did strop, are you experienced at stropping?

Vr

Matt

I didn’t strop. I used it straight off the stone

 

[Rumlover]

I see a line

That would indicate to me that the bevel has become “un-set” some way or other. Could be a rolled edge or broken off. A set bevel and shave ready edge would normally not have any line when looking at anything lower than 20x magnification.

If it was me I would re-set and re-hone the bevel.

Does anyone else concur or have a different opinion?

 

[Rumlover]

The blade was honed for me on stones. I’ve been shaving off this honed edge for two or three weeks.

Over time a line could begin to develop with regular use. Thus of course the reason for maintenance. But I wouldn’t think 14-21 shaves with good technique should damage the edge that much.

 

[cugel]

You chose, perhaps, the most unforgiving stone to finish a razor on. Try stropping though. Even on your hand will help.

 

[Matt O]

I didn’t strop. I used it straight off the stone

I think the general consensus is to strop, at least 10-20 light strokes on the strop after your finisher. I usually do 5-7 light laps on linen, and then 10-20 laps on leather. It works well for me.

Vr

Matt

 

[gregory56]

Over time a line could begin to develop with regular use. Thus of course the reason for maintenance. But I wouldn’t think 14-21 shaves with good technique should damage the edge that much.

For sure the saves didn't do this. I was my running the blade on the stone that did!

 

[Rumlover]

I agree with the above first about giving it a stropping. Strop the razor first (least destructive) and see if it brings the razor back to life.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Maybe too much pressure. Maybe the stone wasn't burnished after lapping. At any rate, black and translucent arkies are as others pointed out, not ideal stones to learn on.

Stropping on clean (no abrasives or pastes or dressings or anything else that isn't leather or razor!) hanging leather and doing it properly before each shave is absolutely essential if you want a good shave. But I agree with you, it sounds like your stone humbugged your edge though it could have been your technique.

The only time you go back and forth and back and forth on one side at a time is the initial stages of setting the bevel. Your intermediate and finishing stones (or film) call for regular alternating laps. Hold stone IN HAND. Place razor on stone, touching spine down first, then letting the edge touch. Spine toward you, edge away from you, razor at the end nearest your body as you hold the stone. Sweep the razor with light pressure away from you, and at the same time drawing it off slightly to the right. At the other end of the stone, keep the spine on the stone and flip the edge up and over, toward you. Now sweep the razor toward you, drawing it slightly to the right as before. This is called the X stroke, and one round trip away and back is one lap. Pressure on the finishing stone should only be the weight of the razor or less if possible, Make sure you never ever let the shoulder of the razor ride up on the stone. I know, that's a lot to remember, but you need to remember it and right now go back to that stone and go 50 careful laps. Then strop and try to shave. No joy? Go 50 more. Arkies are very slow stones (assuming they are lapped and burnished properly) so go 50 laps at a time with very light pressure IN HAND, then strop and shave. Repeat as necessary. The spine must ALWAYS already be on the stone when the edge touches down on it. The spine must STILL be on the stone when the edge lifts up off of it. The spine must ALWAYS be on the stone at all times in between. Same with stropping. You already messed up your edge. So just improve your technique, and on the black arkie you are unlikely to make it worse if you do it the way I just told you. If you can't follow those instructions precisely you probably will be underwhelmed by your results. You may end up having to send it out for honing, but use this opportunity to practice, and give yourself a chance.

Don't spend a day's wages on a nice strop that you will probably destroy. On the other hand, don't bother with garbage from China or Pakistan. Contact member @Tony Miller and see if he has something in stock suitable for a newbie. He's your go-to guy for strops until you are ready to spring for a Kanayama or some other exotic horse shell strop. Practice your stropping, too. I always go 50 laps. Pull the strop tight but not full body weight tight. Don't press the razor hard against the strop, just let it glide. Flip the EDGE up and over while the spine stays on the strop. Use an x stroke. Youtube is your friend.

If you have a decently long attention span and time enough to read a couple hundred pages, go to this link:
Newbie Honing Compendium | Badger & Blade

This is what we call "The Method" and it is a proven regimen for getting newbies creating better than professional edges with a minimum outlay of funds and in record time. Success is almost always achieved at the first attempt, and VERY good edges usually achieved by the second or third attempt. BUT, it depends largely on accepting all instructions at least temporarily as dogma, as a sacred text, a law of physics, and the only way that there is. It is NOT the only way, but you can't allow yourself to think that if you want The Method to work for you. The entire concept is based on a proven set of instructions, faithfully and accurately followed in every detail. Don't buy anything or do anything until you read it in full, including all of the threads linked within the parent thread. One thing you will learn in The Method is that stones are not needed, though they are nice to have for bevel setting and edge repair. Lapping film is a cheap and consistent way to run through the intermediate and finish stages of honing. Then after that, a treat is in store for you. The balsa post-finish treatment.

It is a good idea to start with two razors, so one is in use while the other is maybe getting honed by a knowledgeable honemeister, or traveling to and from. Don't get a new one. Be CAREFUL about buying from a stranger. A forum member of long standing is a good bet. Watch the BST sub forum for deals on vintage razors, shave ready. Don't trust a stranger on fleabay or amazon and especially on Etsy or Aliexpress or craigslist or whatever. Okay, there are a few good sellers on ebay, that is true. VERIFY on the forum before you pull the trigger or you will probably be sorry. Verify any seller who is not a known member here. Just don't post links to live auctions, is all. You can post BIN listings, no sweat.

You might want to state your state and city of residence. There could be a member near you, willing to give you some help. Guys on here do that kind of stuff. There are other forums, too, and I personally think this is the best one, but it would do you good to circulate a bit.

If you just want to hone on stones, I suggest that for now you get yourself a Naniwa 12k SuperStone. It is a very nice, easy, consistent stone to use. You will have to lap it and keep it lapped, though. When you got yours, report back in and ask how to lap it.

Even if you don't want to blindly follow instructions, I suggest reading all of the Method threads, anyway.

 

[Gamma]

What did I do wrong?

Possibly everything.

Honing isn't something that's like, say - color by numbers or an add-water-and-stir recipe.
It's not Shake and Bake. Skills and knowledge are required. Luck gets some people through some situations but for the most part this is a craft that has to be 'honed' for success to be part of the storyline on a regular basis.

I don't sense that there has been much research behind the attempt to tune up the edge.
So that's the first thing.
Jumping in with both feet is admirable. So is asking questions. All good.

The stone - did you lap it? How - on what? Did you check that is is dead flat? How?
What grade black Ark is it? What size?
Not all Black Arks are finisher-grade. Some are quite soft and worthless as a finisher.
Unlapped and/or unprepped they can damage an edge, regardless of how fine they might be when set up right.

"Rubbed the edge back and forth" - not sure what that means.
Did you follow any honing guides, follow any proven methods, watch honing videos, etc?

"pushed the blade edge first down the stone a few times" -
Pressure? No pressure? X stroke? How did you approach the honing? What method?
...a few times...
If you have a finishing grade Ark, that is prepped correctly - then you will need quite a bit more than a 'few times' to experience any sort of improvement.

Lastly - how was the edge honed originally? If you have, say, a razor that was brought up to snuff on diamond pastes then trying to make it 'sharper' on an unknown Ark isn't going to cut it 99% of the time.

There are a lot of variables involved, iron them out one at a time and success will be somewhere close by.

 

[camoloc]

to be blatantly honest,

the first clue is "back and forth"

I think you would benefit from reading some "how to's" first.

arks are nice. edge first with litlle to no pressure. there will be some debate and commentary with this. whatever works for you........by then you know what you prefer.

apologies if this seems or appears rude and blunt....

but it is what it is.
for the record, with my surgical Ark I use water only and weight of blade pressure for many laps. they are not a quick stone. patience is golden.

camo

 

[camoloc]

to be blatantly honest,

the first clue is "back and forth"

I think you would benefit from reading some "how to's" first.

arks are nice. edge first with litlle to no pressure. there will be some debate and commentary with this. whatever works for you........by then you know what you prefer.

apologies if this seems or appears rude and blunt....

but it is what it is.
for the record, with my surgical Ark I use water only and weight of blade pressure for many laps. they are not a quick stone. patience is golden.

camo

very much same gentle jnat water only laps too.but then again I only own one penquin jnat which I know very well.

I know what diiferent slurry thicknesses do........I know what to do with water only by experience.

what kinda close shave ya want I say !!!

camo

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Greg, is this the Ralph Aust you posted about earlier?

If so, the razor needs to be properly honed, the Ark did not damage the edge, then you can learn to maintain it. It is very common for new stroppers to roll a shaving edge. It only takes one missed stroke on the strop.

A better finisher to learn to maintain an edge is a 12k Naniwia Super Stone or an 8k Naniwia Snow White. You will also need a 300-600 diamond lapping plate to lap and maintain the stone. This will get you shaving and keep you shaving. You will still need to perfect your stropping.

Perhaps someone local could help you out.

Where are you located?

 

[Empire straights]

If your stone isn't flat it can eat your edge, especially an ark. Strop after, it'll help. The amount torque or pressure you hone with can also cause problems. I find ark do better if you start with some pressure and lighten up as you go. Where did your stone come from? Got any pictures of it?

 

[SilverGeezer]

I bet that there isn't a single person in this crowd that didn't start this way.
It gets better, I promise.