Name some blade-forward DE razors with plenty of blade feel?

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I find the B a bit much for me and I may get an A plate but yes I do find the GC84 way too aggressive.

I'm sure there are people on both sides of the asile, those who want aggressive and those who want something more mild.

I've been discussing the issue about aggressiveness with a friend and how much does gap/exposure really play a part in it.

I have a slightly different idea but until I prove it I rather not open a can of worms for no reason lol!

I look forward to hearing about your theory when you're ready to share it.

 

[jmudrick]

I personally find the generalization ridiculous!

If it was actually the case, I would be able to get a DFS from a Rockwell on plate 2 no matter how many passes I do, but it's not the case. I need at least plate 4 for a close shave.

Ok the Karve, C plate is not sufficient, again no matter how many passes because it reaches its capacity restraint after 3 passes and gets me no closer to BBS, whereas the D plate does achieve BBS in 3 passes.

It's the same as when people tell me I should be able to get a BBS from a voshkod blade because it's all about technique...all I got from the voshkod was the feeling of a blunt blade followed by ingrowns!!

Blades are actually doing the cutting, let's not confuse the discussion, it's not the same

Can you explain how a difference in gap of .10mm enables you to get a shave you can't get otherwise with the same razor? I'd love to hear the explanation and how it's something other than expanding the range in cutting angle. If there is a difference in exposure, that small difference can also be compensated for by technique.

 

[nav]

Blades are actually doing the cutting, let's not confuse the discussion, it's not the same

Can you explain how a difference in gap of .10mm enables you to get a shave you can't get otherwise with the same razor? I'd love to hear the explanation and how it's something other than expanding the range in cutting angle. If there is a difference in exposure, that small difference can also be compensated for by technique.

If one size fit all, the original super speed razors wouldn't have been made in blue, black and red tips.
Gillette would also not have bothered with their adjustable range of razors, nor would have merkur with their progress.

The blade does the cutting, yes. I tried over 40 blades before I settled on the Polsilver. Does this mean the Polsilver will work in any razor? Of course not! The next step is to find the ideal razor to use with that blade to get BBS with full comfort.

I strive for BBS every day as I have olive skin with dark stubble so I have a "post shave shadow" that I like to minimise.

It's obvious that the difference in blade gap contributes to achieving the result desired. If you can achieve a BBS with say a Karve B plate, that doesn't mean you have better technique, it simply means you have stubble that is not as coarse/dense as someone that can not get BBS from the B plate.

In my own case, I found the game changer to be more "aggressive" than the Karve D but it has a smaller blade gap so what gives? Well, the exposure is more so it there's more blade feel but the smaller blade gap means I get a closer shave with the Karve D.

Your argument is only your own logic and/or opinion, which is disproved by simply looking back at safety razor development over the last 70 years.

 

[jmudrick]

If one size fit all, the original super speed razors wouldn't have been made in blue, black and red tips.
Gillette would also not have bothered with their adjustable range of razors, nor would have merkur with their progress.

The blade does the cutting, yes. I tried over 40 blades before I settled on the Polsilver. Does this mean the Polsilver will work in any razor? Of course not! The next step is to find the ideal razor to use with that blade to get BBS with full comfort.

I strive for BBS every day as I have olive skin with dark stubble so I have a "post shave shadow" that I like to minimise.

It's obvious that the difference in blade gap contributes to achieving the result desired. If you can achieve a BBS with say a Karve B plate, that doesn't mean you have better technique, it simply means you have stubble that is not as coarse/dense as someone that can not get BBS from the B plate.

In my own case, I found the game changer to be more "aggressive" than the Karve D but it has a smaller blade gap so what gives? Well, the exposure is more so it there's more blade feel but the smaller blade gap means I get a closer shave with the Karve D.

Your argument is only your own logic and/or opinion, which is disproved by simply looking back at safety razor development over the last 70 years.

My view is indeed based on logic. I haven't argued that user preference is unreasonable, it makes perfect sense that one user might prefer different gap and exposure . That doesn't mean that a Slim on 7 is incapable of delivering and equally close shave to a Slim on 8 given an adjustment in technique which a user may or may not be interested or able to make. Given the same angle and pressure gap alone doesn't change the interface of blade and beard.

 

[JimL911]

Why is it that in threads where the topic is about aggressive razors there are always people wasting time talking about mild razors and better technique.
The OP asked about razors with blade feel. People have different needs, hence the term YMMV.
Can I get a BBS with a Tech? Yes but because I have coarse whiskers it makes for a 15-20 minute shave. With my Ikon Tech I'm done in 5 and the Tech is used when I need a second shave. Why would I want to take 2X-3X the time needed using razors where I can't feel the blade to help maintain a narrow working range?

 

[Esox]

I hear this point of view over and over, that one should be able to get a great shave with any razor. With enough effort, perhaps. In my experience, not with any razor but I can get a decent shave with most. Some of us get there much faster and in a more satisfying manner with an aggressive instrument. And there's a level of excellence that's not achievable with razors that don't cut as close.

I agree with you from my own experience. I can get a nice, smooth and comfortable BBS with my post war Tech the same as I can my Grande, MMOC or any other razor I have. The road to that end is different among them all.

For example, I need a Feather blade in my Tech and I need to use far more pressure than I do my Grande. Using my Tech its at least 4 full passes and 3 cleanups for a BBS finish. Using considerable pressure and shaving very aggressively the BBS finish lasts 6-8 hours. The blade exposure is just not there for a closer shave.

Using my Grande it's, at most, 2 passes and a single cleanup for a BBS finish that lasts 12 hours and I'm not using it anywhere near as aggressively. At the same time its as mild and, arguably, more comfortable than my Tech.

I have to use my Tech at a neutral angle but I dont my Grande. The Tech has gap, the Grande does not. I keep seeing posts where the Tech is called efficient too, but it sure hasnt been my experience. The Tech is however very smooth, but thats because its a very rigid design. So is my Grande, but angle of use and ability to maintain the correct angle is much more important with it.

Not quite sure what "mild" means here. Put me in the camp that wants the least passes and the least irritation, so mild doesn't interest me. The last thing I want is to go over the same area again and again. Agree on rigid, though, and love my GEMS.

I think of my Grande and MMOC both as mild but unforgiving and highly efficient. Used at the right angle with the right amount of pressure I dont feel the blade. That to me is mild. They're both very smooth and very predictable.

My R41 on the other hand I do not consider mild even though my angle of use is similar and the R41 and Fatip have similar blade exposures.

If you want the least number of passes, try the MMOC buffing directly ATG first pass. Work on perfecting that technique. Once you've done it a few times with a comfortable BBS finish, you might be surprised how easy that actually is. Using either my Grande or MMOC its about a 3 minute shave, in total.

Thats my world; Sensitive skin and coarse, dense, tough stubble. Only the most rigid designs with generous blade exposure and little gap need apply for that kind of shave.

 

[les24preludes]

If you want the least number of passes, try the MMOC buffing directly ATG first pass. Work on perfecting that technique. Once you've done it a few times with a comfortable BBS finish, you might be surprised how easy that actually is. Using either my Grande or MMOC its about a 3 minute shave, in total.

Yep - my best recent shave was my Ever Ready 1912 with a heavier handle shaving directly ATG first pass. It's smooth, and it really cuts, by which I mean it cuts the stubble down to the skin. It still needs some cleanup because some areas always get missed if you don't get the pressure and direction right, and in some places you just need more strokes, but the heavy lifting has been done. This probably gives me the least irritation of all my shaves.

 

[jmudrick]

Why is it that in threads where the topic is about aggressive razors there are always people wasting time talking about mild razors and better technique.
The OP asked about razors with blade feel. People have different needs, hence the term YMMV.
Can I get a BBS with a Tech? Yes but because I have coarse whiskers it makes for a 15-20 minute shave. With my Ikon Tech I'm done in 5 and the Tech is used when I need a second shave. Why would I want to take 2X-3X the time needed using razors where I can't feel the blade to help maintain a narrow working range?

The question was asked and I offered an answer to a particular question. That's what happens when opinions are sought.

Well I I like blade forward razors, I used the Ikon Tech this morning. The level of attention it requires because of its exposure isn't something I want every day. Why would you want a 15 minute shave? Not everyone is in such a hurry all the time. I like variety.

 

[member 119848]

I think this question can only be answered by seniors (that are over 80 I guess)

 

[nav]

My view is indeed based on logic. I haven't argued that user preference is unreasonable, it makes perfect sense that one user might prefer different gap and exposure . That doesn't mean that a Slim on 7 is incapable of delivering and equally close shave to a Slim on 8 given an adjustment in technique which a user may or may not be interested or able to make. Given the same angle and pressure gap alone doesn't change the interface of blade and beard.

To be clear, I said "your logic"...meaning that you are basing everything on you being the entire sample size.

If I'm using the same blade in all razors, how can one "logically" argue that it's the blade that makes all the difference when I'm getting a totally different level of shave from different razors with the same blade?

Why is it that I get a close shave with the Karve C plate but the regrowth comes in half the time of the Karve D plate?

And the discussion goes beyond this because it's about the combination of closeness and smoothness.

The never ending search, or RAD, is generally about getting the closest shave possible with the most comfort. I thought I had that with the Rockwell 6S but with the Karve, I get an even closer shave with even more comfort.

If I use my 2 plate on the 6S, I'll have a dark post shave shadow even though it'll be DFS. Regrowth will appear within 4 hours whereas the Karve D retains smoothness until late evening.

I hope you're starting you get it now but if not, there's not much anyone can say to change your mind, no matter how much data is presented.

Your comments mostly seem to disregard the entire notion of YMMV and take on an "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude.

 

[nav]

Why is it that in threads where the topic is about aggressive razors there are always people wasting time talking about mild razors and better technique.
The OP asked about razors with blade feel. People have different needs, hence the term YMMV.
Can I get a BBS with a Tech? Yes but because I have coarse whiskers it makes for a 15-20 minute shave. With my Ikon Tech I'm done in 5 and the Tech is used when I need a second shave. Why would I want to take 2X-3X the time needed using razors where I can't feel the blade to help maintain a narrow working range?

I would guess because the milder razors are sufficient to cut through their peach fuzz and they feel everyone else must be exactly the same.

 

[Esox]

Yep - my best recent shave was my Ever Ready 1912 with a heavier handle shaving directly ATG first pass. It's smooth, and it really cuts, by which I mean it cuts the stubble down to the skin. It still needs some cleanup because some areas always get missed if you don't get the pressure and direction right, and in some places you just need more strokes, but the heavy lifting has been done. This probably gives me the least irritation of all my shaves.

Your experience is similar to mine with my MMOC. Around my chin, left side jawline and right side of my mouth need the most attention. That can be minimized by how well you can follow the direction of growth directly ATG as well as finding the right amount of skin tension. Up the face of my chin and the right side of my mouth I need my skin as taut as possible, not so much for the rest of the shave.

I think my beard map is pretty easy to shave ATG, but learning to shave like that taught me its not quite as easy as I thought.

I compared my Grande and MMOC directly shaving like that. Using my MMOC I need half the number of strokes I do using my Grande. The strokes with my MMOC are also twice as long, but because I shave a bit more carefully with the MMOC it works out to around the same amount of time.

My skin has also improved from using the MMOC. The SE blades, I think, because they are so stiff they're more gentle on my skin, as long as I do my part.

 

[jmudrick]

I would guess because the milder razors are sufficient to cut through their peach fuzz and they feel everyone else must be exactly the same.

When I had peach fuzz LBJ was president. The conversation having turned infantile I'll opt out..

 

[Esox]

Given the same angle and pressure gap alone doesn't change the interface of blade and beard.

I believe it can and this is why I prefer minimal gap.

With designs that have blade gap, as the skin flows through that gap it meets the edge of the blade. Think of a wave of skin traveling through the gap. As pressure is increased, so is angle of skin to edge by being forced deeper into that gap. A byproduct of that is increased skin tension against blade edge. With pressure being a constant, as gap is increased, so is the angle of skin to edge.

This is why I dont like gap in a razor. As my skin travels through that gap, my irritation level builds. Three full passes with my SC and a Polsilver and my skin is feeling warm with a slight redness. Three full passes with my Slim on 9 and a Polsilver, my skin is feeling hot, raw and with significant redness. Pressure is a constant, only gap and angle of skin to edge varies.

Gap lends a mechanical advantage to a razor, regulated by pressure applied. In essence, your skin is being forced against the blade edge. As gap or pressure increase, so does that angle of blade to skin, making for a more effective shave. It does work and very well too. I really wish my skin could handle more blade gap but it just cant.

Why is it that I get a close shave with the Karve C plate but the regrowth comes in half the time of the Karve D plate?

Assuming pressure is a constant and assuming a D plate increases the gap, my reasoning is above.

 

[jmudrick]

I believe it can and this is why I prefer minimal gap.

With designs that have blade gap, as the skin flows through that gap it meets the edge of the blade. Think of a wave of skin traveling through the gap. As pressure is increased, so is angle of skin to edge by being forced deeper into that gap. A byproduct of that is increased skin tension against blade edge. With pressure being a constant, as gap is increased, so is the angle of skin to edge.

This is why I dont like gap in a razor. As my skin travels through that gap, my irritation level builds. Three full passes with my SC and a Polsilver and my skin is feeling warm with a slight redness. Three full passes with my Slim on 9 and a Polsilver, my skin is feeling hot, raw and with significant redness. Pressure is a constant, only gap and angle of skin to edge varies.

Gap lends a mechanical advantage to a razor, regulated by pressure applied. In essence, your skin is being forced against the blade edge. As gap or pressure increase, so does that angle of blade to skin, making for a more effective shave. It does work and very well too. I really wish my skin could handle more blade gap but it just cant.



Assuming pressure is a constant and assuming a D plate increases the gap, my reasoning is above.

I've seen you post this before and I'm just not convinced about this skin traveling through gap business particularly when you're talking about razors with significant gap to begin with. Even so if what you're saying is that gap is changing angle I won't argue since my position is simply that gap doesn't matter given the same angle and pressure, I take as given that gap facilitates change in angle.

 

[les24preludes]

My skin has also improved from using the MMOC. The SE blades, I think, because they are so stiff they're more gentle on my skin, as long as I do my part.

Yes, I can believe that. Much less irritation.

 

[Esox]

I've seen you post this before and I'm just not convinced about this skin traveling through gap business particularly when you're talking about razors with significant gap to begin with. Even so if what you're saying is that gap is changing angle I won't argue since my position is simply that gap doesn't matter given the same angle and pressure

There was a time you also thought the whole concept of rigidity was for the birds lol.

Thats my take on how gap affects a shave by design. Anyone elses experience can surely be different, but the physics applies.

 

[jmudrick]

There was a time you also thought the whole concept of rigidity was for the birds lol.

Thats my take on how gap affects a shave by design. Anyone elses experience can surely be different, but the physics applies.

 

[Esox]

Even so if what you're saying is that gap is changing angle I won't argue since my position is simply that gap doesn't matter given the same angle and pressure

For clarity, I was referring to using a razor at its neutral angle. Adjusting angle from there to shallower makes gap basically moot.

 

[Esox]

View attachment 957519

Yeah I'm aware of the Wardonia. How does it work on your head shave compared to the MMOC again?

I understand you only need a rigid design on your head shaves. I wish I was so lucky.