Name some blade-forward DE razors with plenty of blade feel?
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Come on , a different blade format is an unfair comparison. The Wardonia does pretty well on my head or I wouldn't be so fond of it.
Okay lol, I agree too. Then how about your Wardonia vs your favorite head shaver thats a DE? I cant remember which razor that is. Wasnt it a Fatip?
Shake Sharp. Fatip is in a very crowded second tier. I'll have to pull out the Wardonia and see how it does against some of the new arrivals.
I keep forgetting about that one. Thats with two DE blades. Double your rigidity, double your fun lol.
Yep, admittedly the Shake Sharp is a bit of a cheat given that.
A blade is fixed in a safety razor. It cannot move therefore it cannot get any closer to the skin than the gap & exposure allow under normal shaving conditions. These last two factors are what determines the level of aggression. In theory the hone angle of your blade used should fall into the "sweet spot" for your chosen razor. As a certified "Techophile" I can assure you that there are other blades that will give you just as good a shave as a Feather. It's just that you may not have used them before.
Regardless, if a man has found his chosen razor then he is fortunate. Nonetheless, I think there is far too much emphasis on achieving BBS which is actually "baggage" carried over from a person's history with multi-blade disposable razors as well as having been brain washed by Big Razor cos. advertising and endless "wiener measuring" on wet shaving forums. As well, many may be actually calling a BBS what is in reality a DFS.
Whilst my question was rhetorical, I do completely agree with your assessment!
I agree because it's the reality when using my razors. Basically, if I apply just a bit of pressure on my Karve and not stretch my skin, I can feel my skin very slightly enter the gap and this yields a closer shave for me.
It's difficult to explain it but once I've dialed a razor in and "become one" with the razor, I use their individual characteristics to give me the result I want. This of course must be done giving full respect to how far I can push the individual razor's characteristics.
So yes, the gap is not just about how efficiently it will cut the hair but also how it interacts with our skin.
I believe this is also why many shavers are adamant that slim stretching is over rated. It's all a massive YMMV because it depends on the skin, the razor, the blade, the technique etc etc.
That was my point actually...that all else being equal, the gap makes a big difference, but not just on its own.
And BTW we all apply pressure, otherwise the razor head won't make contact with the skin. It's "light" pressure, not no pressure.
My point wasn't to discuss my individual techniques but to illustrate the interaction between gap and skin.
If you ignore how I use my razor, the point that a larger gap is more efficient is absolutely true...just ask all the people that can't get a smooth shave from a Gillette tech or all those that want the Karve F plate or 1.05mm game changer.
There's a reason why customisation options exist...to best suit the requirements of the user. This applies well beyond shaving items.
Are hollow or wedge straights more efficient? One is quiet and smooth, other is loud and can skip.
At a neutral angle, riding both cap and guard equally, I believe thats why gap is implemented in a razors design. To increase efficiency. All aspects work together, gap, blade angle and blade exposure. As soon as one deviates from a neutral angle you change the characteristics and how they interact with your shave.
I also think a lot of DE and SE users tend to use razors at or near their neutral design angle. I rarely do however and only do when using a razor with neutral blade exposure. The more blade exposure and/or gap a razor has, the further you can stray from that design angle.
Every razor is an individual and its up to each of us to get the most from it. All razors will give a good shave if the time is taken to learn it, but that doesnt mean all razors will give the best shave you can have or even the shave one may want.
The Gillette Tech for example. Its an exemplary razor. Its easy to use, its very forgiving and its efficient enough for most. I can get a very good shave with a Tech, but in the end its not the shave I want. Other razors easily give me a closer, quicker, smoother and more efficient shave.
Many shavers dont skin stretch and dont even consider it necessary. I do and I use varying amounts of skin tension depending on where I am in my shave. It makes a big difference for me.
I was talking to a member just the other day about this 'no pressure' fallacy. Without some pressure its very difficult for most of us to shave but there is one I know that shaves like that. Al @AimlessWanderer is the only member I've yet come across that uses a 'hover technique'. Using his EJ, he rides neither cap nor guard and only shaves with the very edge of the blade. Even then, there is some pressure of edge to skin.
I was discussing shallow angle shaving with another member in PM because he was under the impression that any pressure was a serious no no. I suggested, that as blade exposure increases in a razors design, the shallower, or steeper, the razor can be used. I used the picture below as an example.
In that picture you can see the recommended angle of use and how the guard is pushing into the skin. Thats how much pressure is needed to acquire that angle of blade to skin. What happens if we want to use a shallower angle? If pressure remains a constant and the blade angle becomes shallower, the blade edge lifts away from the skin. To make the edge engage the skin, more pressure must be applied.
Its the same idea as when I use my Fatip Grande, which I generally use very shallow. In the picture below I use my Grande at the lower red line. If I only used enough pressure for the cap to lightly touch my skin, I'd never reach that angle of use, I only can with the cap pushed into my skin.
There are firm no rules about how to use any razor. We all need to find what works for each of us. Using no pressure and/or staying within any preconceived boundaries regarding pressure or angle of use only limits ourselves. If I had been under that mindset, I'd have never found my best razors.
I happened to be using the Wardonia this morning, the 1927 patent application being the first I know of which presents a guard design with gap which speaks to the issue of skin displacement.
As an exemplary razor I have found that it not only gives me the shave that I want, but more importantly the one that I need. I find razors that are more aggressive require too much careful attention to detail to avoid getting nicked as well as causing (for me) every man's nemesis: ingrown hairs. I determined years ago that über aggressive razors are not for me and I believe that I am far from alone in that belief. The Tech therefore gives me the perfect melding of what I need as well as making shaving enjoyable and not some daily feat requiring super vigilance bordering on OCD as to obtain "dolphin smooth" results. It's just shaving after all.
I've found it the complete opposite, but thats hardly surprising.
Using my Grande, even up to 76 hours of growth, its a simple single buffing pass ATG and a single clean up over my two swirl growth patterns for a 12 hour BBS with a Polsilver. That takes me around 3 minutes. Even at shave #20 on a single Polsilver.
I've been shaving like that for so long with my Grande I shave entirely by feel and can with my eyes closed. Its complete muscle memory. When I pick that razor up with the intention of shaving N-S WTG/XTG first pass I have to stop and think about it because my muscle memory is so strong my hand just doesnt want too. When I have stopped like that, I've looked at my razor and had to change my grip because I've even picked it up with the intent of starting directly ATG out of habit.
Its difficult to explain, but I suspect you know what I mean. I dont shave with those razors, they shave me. Its autopilot at this point.
I've done that shave with my MMOC, effortlessly, at around 100 hours growth.
My MMOC with a fresh blade the BBS finish has been as high as almost 19 hours but typically 14, and its an even more effortless shave because of the difference in efficiency between the two razors and the rigidity of the blades. SE blades are more than twice as thick as most, if not all, DE blades. Thats a very real and tangible difference.
Using either razor I have a post shave feel like I havent even shaved. For me it gets no better. A Tech, while rigid enough to shave directly ATG first pass at ~48 hours growth, I have tried it, that level of efficiency just isnt there. It lacks sufficient blade exposure. Because the Tech does have gap, even minor, I can feel the difference after a shave. This is why I call my Grande 5x's as efficient and even more comfortable. The MMOC is twice as efficient as my Grande.
To a BBS finish. I consider it a BBS shave when I can feel no stubble in any direction even when feeling with considerable pressure in any direction. I know I'm there when I can pinch the skin just above my Adam's apple tightly and feel nothing as I pull my hand away. I can rest my chin on the heel of my hand and lean into it as hard as I like and feel nothing when I twist my hand against my chin. I even tried the cotton ball test not long ago and it snagged nothing anywhere. Anything less I think of as a DFS.
I can get there with a Tech, but not nearly that quickly and not with that duration of BBS finish.
Theres no, to borrow your term, "wiener measuring" going on here. Its just the simple facts as they apply to me.
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The Tech doesn't come into it for me either. I have two that sit on the shelf. I'm really looking for R41 cutting power, and even the R41 doesn't cut quite as well as my ER 1912 with a heavier handle. They're not miles apart, but the 1912 cleans up the odd bits the R41 can leave. Not much escapes a 1912 with a PTFE blade.
We're of like mind re the Fatip and MMOC but I still understand where @Bogeyman is coming from. Razors with particularly extreme exposure like the Ikon Tech may be razors which given enough time I could zip around my head while chatting with my daughter (as I can with the MMOC) but honestly that's a learning curve I'm not interested in exploring, the return simply not beIng worth the investment. Though not as extreme I felt the same way about the Blackbird and SE2 and sold them both.
Have you tried a Gillette Old Type?
If perfectly straight they should have literally no blade gap at all and actually have very little blade exposure. My made in Canada Old below, which has negative blade exposure.
Because that razor holds the blade in the most rigid state possible and it has literally no blade gap, unless you count half a blade thickness as gap, it is extremely efficient but very difficult to use. I find my MMOC much more forgiving than I do that razor.
First pass N>S for me, which is WTG on my cheeks and XTG at and below my jawline, only one razor has given me an arguably closer first pass, my Gillette Regent.
A Feather blade in that Canadian Old is a fantastic shave, but its also a very cautious one. My technique really needs to be sharp when I use that razor. There is no warning at all before it bites, but if you're up to it they really do deliver.
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The SE2 has my attention. I might really like it but at the same time it might be too much of a good thing, hard to say. The difference between the SE1 and SE2 appear minor, but they're really significant.
ATT SE1. (Pics courtesy of Jim, @Chan Eil Whiskers)
ATT SE2.
The SE2 has more gap and more exposure, but the blade angle is also steeper. I do think I could roll it onto its cap a bit and get a great shave. At the same time, its obvious the SE1 is easier to get along with.
The iKon Tech I know I wont like. It just wont have enough baseplate support for me. The blade exposure it offers on the other hand, with more support from the base, I'm sure I would like quite a bit.
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