Zenith Best Badger Brushes?

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Anybody use best badgers made by quality makers such as Zenith?

You hear very little about them, but my guess is they're good brushes. I know that doesn't mean the really cheap crummy versions on Amazon and elsewhere are good (but I've not used them in a long time, and not much then; actually I'm not sure what those brushes of long ago were made of but they were cheap).

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Bebe]

i have a few Zenith Manchurian, 24mm. Excellent brushes for my test, not too soft but not prickly at all (like most manchurians) !
Not familiar with best badgers..

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

i have a few Zenith Manchurian, 24mm. Excellent brushes for my test, not too soft but not prickly at all (like most manchurians) !
Not familiar with best badgers..

Me, too. Except I'd say they're plenty soft enough. I love scrub. I'd also say they have just the perfect amount of scritch (which I generally hate but apparently not entirely).

At some point I might like another Manchurian. I've also heard the Zenith silvertips have great backbone. Just don't have one. Don't know jack about their best badgers.

 

[WoS_]

I had one. Good backbone and somewhat scratchy.

 

[gigetto]

Good quality for the price (in Italy)

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Just bumping this thread hoping to get more information about Zenith pure badger brushes.

I posted earlier on another thread about my finding there are actually two Zenith pure badger knots (code TP and code MS).

I may have to order a Zenith Best Badger just to find out (ultimately), but I'm trying to be careful with my money and read more before pushing buttons. It's also got to be a handle I really like (fortunately I don't see any right now which I can't do without).

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[SliceOfLife]

Simpson Best is very popular, but now that you mention it, no I don't think any other Premium maker Bests are commonly bought... To be fair Does Rooney even have a best? Aren't they like Pure, Silvertip and Super? Kent offers best, but they're not as popular as they were awhile ago it seems.

Two band has really kind of overtaken the higher up market with a smaller market for premium 3 bands (HMW, silvertip, or whatever the vendor calls it) and Simpsons kind of being the lone hold-out that still makes relatively high dollar brushes with Best (chubby's and the like) that actually sell a lot.

I think what may keep people from buying the Zenith Best is their Manchurian 2 band is quite close to it in price, and in most peoples minds (regardless if its the case or not), that's a big upgrade for a small premium.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Simpson Best is very popular, but now that you mention it, no I don't think any other Premium maker Bests are commonly bought... To be fair Does Rooney even have a best? Aren't they like Pure, Silvertip and Super? Kent offers best, but they're not as popular as they were awhile ago it seems.

Two band has really kind of overtaken the higher up market with a smaller market for premium 3 bands (HMW, silvertip, or whatever the vendor calls it) and Simpsons kind of being the lone hold-out that still makes relatively high dollar brushes with Best (chubby's and the like) that actually sell a lot.

I think what may keep people from buying the Zenith Best is their Manchurian 2 band is quite close to it in price, and in most peoples minds (regardless if its the case or not), that's a big upgrade for a small premium.

Yes, I can absolutely understand why someone without a Zenith Manchurian and also without a Zenith Best Badger would buy the Manchurian.

I've certainly done my part to drive folks into the Zenith Manchurian camp, the copper handled Zenith Manchurian being, in my view of it, the best brush I've used, and perhaps the best brush I can imagine.

I've not used any Simpson brush nor have I used several of the other high end brushes perhaps available in Best.

A few minutes ago I looked around with the intention of probably buying a Zenith Best but I was unable to find a handle which called my name. I've gotten pretty picky about what I'll spend money on.

Thanks for enlarging my understanding of Best.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[SliceOfLife]

That is what I'd say Zenith definitely needs to work on. Handles. There is a very "Omega's popular styles but in nicer material" feel to everything they offer. Everything reminds me of an Omega Pro or the other shape of Omega Pro.


I would say that with the quality of the Zenith boar, I'd expect their Best knots at lower lofts are pretty nice brushes... but the handle would definitely be a killer for me. The three bands I use regularly anymore, I use because the handles are special. Of note... all Simpsons (well, one kent but it's a Simpson style knockoff):

Eagle, Chubby, Barrel.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

This video, speaking of Best, cracks me up.

Jarrod can be really funny.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

That is what I'd say Zenith definitely needs to work on. Handles. There is a very "Omega's popular styles but in nicer material" feel to everything they offer. Everything reminds me of an Omega Pro or the other shape of Omega Pro.


I would say that with the quality of the Zenith boar, I'd expect their Best knots at lower lofts are pretty nice brushes... but the handle would definitely be a killer for me. The three bands I use regularly anymore, I use because the handles are special. Of note... all Simpsons (well, one kent but it's a Simpson style knockoff):

Eagle, Chubby, Barrel.

To me, handles are primarily something to hold on to. In other words I haven't cared all that much - which does not mean not at all - about how they look, but more about how they feel in my hand. However, recently I care more about the aesthetics of my handles (I'm becoming more picky about their color, etc.); after all, it's not like I need any more brushes.

Zenith has a bunch of handles I like for their ergonomics (if that can legitimately be applied to a handle) and also some I find very appealing visually. What I can't find right now offered for sale are any handles I love coupled with any knots I want; yes, that's a good thing. I'll be patient and save my pennies.

They're not Paladin handles. I'll give you that.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[SliceOfLife]

I get where you're coming from, but if that were all that mattered to me I'd cut every brush I own out of the handle and put it in an Eagle shape... that's truly a perfect handle for ergonomics imho. I like a little variety, and because I have to consider my "choices" a "collection" at this point, I like variety and aesthetics (though the most interesting brush doesn't last a day on my shelf if it's not comfortable to use as well).

This doesn't mean I'm thrilled by what other makers are doing either. This love for a new type of color swirl every release and everyone knocking off the M7 simpson shape with a slight change to this or that slope isn't any better really (Oh you swirled blue and clear today... so creative... like the orange and clear you swirled last release, or the green and purple you swirled the release before that, or the...), but I'd contrast it to Semogue. They have some ugly painted handles sure, but they also have a good number of comfortable and good looking handles without really diverging much from a single aesthetic. I'd like to see a bit more character in the designs, like that.

Really though, I don't think any of today's makers compete with Simpson, or really ANY of the old vintage makers for creativity and aesthetics in brush design... probably why I buy so many vintage brushes and handles.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I get where you're coming from, but...everyone knocking off the M7 simpson shape with a slight change to this or that... probably why I buy so many vintage brushes and handles.

No need for me to buy any M7 handles with all the Yaqi and Stirling knockoffs I already have, right?

You buy vintage brushes and handles (on eBay I assume). That is not something I've tried (yet). Just looking a bit I don't find much, but I'm not skilled (yet).

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[SliceOfLife]

Vintages are the best handles you're gonna get imho... Some can be a bear to drill out though. Just did one that had the knot resting on a cement or plaster shelf that my carbide drill bits couldn't drill through. They were getting red hot and melting it. Took a half hour to remove 1/4" thick shelf... it could be chiselled but I didn't want to use too much force and risk shattering the Bakelite. Real sense of accomplishment when you get a beautiful and rare vintage handle restored with a great new knot though.

Me personally, I feel no desire to own a modern M7. Handle is quite nice, but nothing I'm desperate to own. If I get spendy on one it'd be a vintage.


Used to be easy to get started with the vintage brushes. The old 2-part (marblescotch bottom black top) everReady's used to cost almost nothing. You'd never see one go for $10+... Now they're fetching $30+, and if you break one learning to remove the knot (they're relatively easy brushes to reknot), it actually costs you to get another.


You can still get cheap ones though. The C40 lookalikes cost nothing (because they're still made under a different name and are a cheap brush), and there are others that can be had for a song... problem is they're cheap because they're mostly rather silly brushes like the fullers that came with the stand and other similar brushes.

The old Surrey and VDH brushes may be good for practice too, they're basically worthless, cost $1 each when they were being sold and probably can be had for about that still.


The three I deknotted today and the next four I'm likely to start on:

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Vintages are the best handles you're gonna get imho... Some can be a bear to drill out though...

Way cool!

 

[SliceOfLife]

Yeah, I've got 3 more Simpsons that I love the handles on too that I'm debating reknotting. Problem is the knots are still usable... just not dense and scrubby like I like. That's the dilemma that you sometimes face. You'll buy a brush figuring if the knots bad you can reknot and the knot will turn out to be good... just not what you like... now you gotta either kill a perfectly good knot (VERY few decent vintage brushes have knots you can remove without destroying them... I've steamed out maybe 2 vintage knots... 99.9% of the time steam does nothing but damage the hair and sometimes the handle) or let the brush go and hope another of that handle comes around with a trashed knot.

Of those three I just killed. One had already been reknotted with a meh knot... no dilemna there. The other two were a mediocre, kinda floppy badger and an actually pretty nice (but nowhere near as good as the modern) mixed badger/boar.

The next four I pictured are a trashed knot I already cut, a mostly trashed boar, a minty but floppy badger, and a still good but quite worn badger (that's an old simpson in a shape I'm not sure what to call).

I don't like killing brushes that are still good and usable... but I also don't like getting rid of handles I really like because I'm not loving the knot.

I'm still trying to determine what my breakpoint is where I'm like "this brush in original shape is too valuable... I won't drill the knot out".

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

...I don't like killing brushes that are still good and usable... but I also don't like getting rid of handles I really like because I'm not loving the knot.

I'm still trying to determine what my breakpoint is where I'm like "this brush in original shape is too valuable... I won't drill the knot out".

Very interesting glimpse into what you're up to.

When you think, "this brush in original shape is too valuable... I won't drill the knot out," are you thinking of its value to you or its value were you to sell it? Do you sell some of them?

I'm thinking of a particular brush in my hands as I think about what you've included in your post. It's a good and valuable brush but probably not one I like all that much. I don't think I'd want to sacrifice its perfectly good knot, but I also really like the handle so it's a dilemma.

Can I ask where you find your vintage brushes?

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[SliceOfLife]

Value to sell. If I don’t want the brush as is, I usually try to sell before gutting as I feel bad destroying a usable knot. Case in point. I’ve got a vintage captain 2. Big handle, really nice. Knot is nearly mint. But that’s a floppy brush (for a Simpson). I want that handle, but brush can probably sell for $50-75 and I have to ask if a Handle is worth that. And if it is I still have to live with the choice to destroy something possibly irreplaceable. Also it is personal/Historic value too. A lot of these vintages are rarely seen. Getting one with a knot in great shape is rare and even if I’m not a fan of the knot, feels wrong to destroy it.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Value to sell. If I don’t want the brush as is, I usually try to sell before gutting as I feel bad destroying a usable knot. Case in point. I’ve got a vintage captain 2. Big handle, really nice. Knot is nearly mint. But that’s a floppy brush (for a Simpson). I want that handle, but brush can probably sell for $50-75 and I have to ask if a Handle is worth that. And if it is I still have to live with the choice to destroy something possibly irreplaceable. Also it is personal/Historic value too. A lot of these vintages are rarely seen. Getting one with a knot in great shape is rare and even if I’m not a fan of the knot, feels wrong to destroy it.

I like how you think.