Zamak handle with stainless head
- Thread starter Andris83
- Start date
ERS4
My exploding razor knows secrets
Now that we are aware of the possibility of this situation, as long as gentle assembly or moderate lubrication can slow down wear.
However, the combination of the two materials with large differences in soft and hard with each other makes it difficult to completely avoid minor wear.
The handles of razors with zamak heads, such as merkur/mulue, are usually brass and chrome; even the cheaper weishi handles are brass .
If you want to use a lighter handle material because of weight considerations, you can also consider choosing a hollow handle made of stainless steel, which can balance lightness and sturdiness.
However, the combination of the two materials with large differences in soft and hard with each other makes it difficult to completely avoid minor wear.
The handles of razors with zamak heads, such as merkur/mulue, are usually brass and chrome; even the cheaper weishi handles are brass .
If you want to use a lighter handle material because of weight considerations, you can also consider choosing a hollow handle made of stainless steel, which can balance lightness and sturdiness.
- Thread starter
- #3
R
romsitsa
Steel will strip zamak in seconds, doesn't matter which way, the same goes for aluminum.
But Mühle threads are brass, afaik.
But Mühle threads are brass, afaik.
M
mtcn77
Yaqi Agamemnon is the other way around, zamak head on a brass handle.
- Thread starter
- #6
I think you are right about the brass thread, will that also fail?
Lefonque
Even more clueless than you
Agreed.
R
romsitsa
Brass is still softer than steel, but it's not as "fragile" as zamak. It will work, but I can't recommend mixing different metals.
Actually I'd suggest silver plated brass to everyone who want's to buy a safety razor.
M
mtcn77
It will give off the most awful screech if it is harder than brass.
One thing I didn't like about the Merkur was its thread post had zero give. It will always sounded like crushing sand, it will creep you out.
Chrome is almost twice as hard as stainless (up to over 1,000 HV, versus less than 700 HV for the hardest stainless), but the issue would be the quality and coverage of the chrome on the Zamak threads (which are more difficult to plate uniformly, internal or external). Any break or flaw in the plating will wear (and be subject to rapid corrosion, especially with dissimilar metal contact). A pretty cheap experiment if anyone wanted to try, but just from a materials perspective I wouldn't expect the longevity of a "hybrid" Zamak/Stainless razor to be less durable or long-lasting than an all-Zamak razor as long as one didn't use excessive force assembling. The same plating/corrosion issues apply to a razor made completely of Zamak (or Zamak and brass - which is also usually chrome-plated as well), and is generally the point of failure for these razors. The chrome plating is what makes Zamak viable as a material for building razors for use in a high-humidity, corrosive environment like your shaving sink, and stainless steel isn't likely to wear the chrome any faster than any other material (tungsten carbide, boron, or diamond the exceptions).
...except that when chrome is applied to a softer substrate, it will flake and split when stressed. You can apply chrome to most anything, whether it stays is another matter.
I have 2 zak razors- a vintage Coles slant whose handle I repaired with carbon fiber tubing, and a RiverLake Futur clone. I paid $30 for the Coles, $14 for the RiverLake. Those are more than fair prices for the quality of the build.
As you already have your razor, I would suggest staying with a brass or chromed brass handle, as the threads will generally be softer and smoother than stainless threading. On stainless handles, if you get one of the first few handles in the run, you'll have nice clean threads, after about 1/3 of the tap's life, they start getting rougher.
Maggard razors are all SS handles and zamak heads. I have a few but havent used them long enough to see the effects. I figured if thats what Maggards sells it wouldnt be an issue other than the normal shorter term life of a zamak head.
Thank you for posting, @Scaramouche. All true, torque and hardness.
May daily razor is a DE89 head on an iKon Bulldog handle, going strong on its 11th year.
May daily razor is a DE89 head on an iKon Bulldog handle, going strong on its 11th year.
Just because a head is made of zamak doesn't mean the post is.
If the top cap is a one-piece casting, then the post would be zamak, of course. But from what I can see, the post is usually soldered in, and what would be the point of using a zamak post? I doubt they would save much, but that wouldn't stop some Chinese manufacturers (just look at the shoddy zippers they put on an otherwise nice jacket).
I have a generic razor that has a brass post - I can see this from the color, and the handle shows brass, too.
Most posts are plated with chrome, so it is difficult to tell. I suppose you could try tapping on it, or seeing if it is magnetic. But I think I have seen at least one unplated post that may have been zamak.
Obviously, a zamak post could break, but so could its zamak base, if it is dropped, or too much tension is applied when tightening the handle.
My practice now is to leave the handle a little loose on the razor after shaving, and after drying the blade and razor. In the old days, looking at the cases that came with the Old Type and New Type Gillettes, I wonder if they disassembled the razor and left it in the case between uses? I figure if the handle is on tight, then it is exerting some pressure on the zamak (or the solder), even while stored. So if you are going to store a razor for a month or more, perhaps it would be wise to leave the handle a little loose.
When tightening the handle, I look at the bend of the blade; when it stops bending, it is on tight enough.
I figure an M5 washer also could help the longevity of the razor by keeping the parts drier, and allowing you to use minimum pressure when tightening the handle. A little lube, like petroleum jelly, might help, too. But I don't really know if these make a difference.
There's nothing inherently wrong with a zamak razor, provided you treat it appropriately. Zamak is pretty amazing. That's how we get all these moderately priced razors. From what I've read, they plate it with copper and then nickel before the chrome plating. Some parts that get a lot of stress, such as motorcycle brake levers, are made of zamak. If the post is a good metal, such as stainless steel, and it is attached properly, then it should be OK. There are some very old zamak razors, such as the famous Hoffritz slant.
On the other hand, I loaned a razor to a friend to try, and he returned it with a VERY tight handle, and there was discoloration of the chrome on the cap around the post, so the earlier remark is accurate. I had told him it was made of zamak and to not overtighten the handle, but apparently that didn't mean anything. When I told him after he returned it that it was made of pot metal, I could see from his face fall that he finally got it. So most people do not know what zamak means.
Do any of the reputable razor manufacturers say what metal is used for their posts and handles, the ones that use zamak. We know what Fatip and some others use!
If the top cap is a one-piece casting, then the post would be zamak, of course. But from what I can see, the post is usually soldered in, and what would be the point of using a zamak post? I doubt they would save much, but that wouldn't stop some Chinese manufacturers (just look at the shoddy zippers they put on an otherwise nice jacket).
I have a generic razor that has a brass post - I can see this from the color, and the handle shows brass, too.
Most posts are plated with chrome, so it is difficult to tell. I suppose you could try tapping on it, or seeing if it is magnetic. But I think I have seen at least one unplated post that may have been zamak.
Obviously, a zamak post could break, but so could its zamak base, if it is dropped, or too much tension is applied when tightening the handle.
My practice now is to leave the handle a little loose on the razor after shaving, and after drying the blade and razor. In the old days, looking at the cases that came with the Old Type and New Type Gillettes, I wonder if they disassembled the razor and left it in the case between uses? I figure if the handle is on tight, then it is exerting some pressure on the zamak (or the solder), even while stored. So if you are going to store a razor for a month or more, perhaps it would be wise to leave the handle a little loose.
When tightening the handle, I look at the bend of the blade; when it stops bending, it is on tight enough.
I figure an M5 washer also could help the longevity of the razor by keeping the parts drier, and allowing you to use minimum pressure when tightening the handle. A little lube, like petroleum jelly, might help, too. But I don't really know if these make a difference.
There's nothing inherently wrong with a zamak razor, provided you treat it appropriately. Zamak is pretty amazing. That's how we get all these moderately priced razors. From what I've read, they plate it with copper and then nickel before the chrome plating. Some parts that get a lot of stress, such as motorcycle brake levers, are made of zamak. If the post is a good metal, such as stainless steel, and it is attached properly, then it should be OK. There are some very old zamak razors, such as the famous Hoffritz slant.
On the other hand, I loaned a razor to a friend to try, and he returned it with a VERY tight handle, and there was discoloration of the chrome on the cap around the post, so the earlier remark is accurate. I had told him it was made of zamak and to not overtighten the handle, but apparently that didn't mean anything. When I told him after he returned it that it was made of pot metal, I could see from his face fall that he finally got it. So most people do not know what zamak means.
Do any of the reputable razor manufacturers say what metal is used for their posts and handles, the ones that use zamak. We know what Fatip and some others use!
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M
mtcn77
Putting a threadstopping washer is a good idea to me as well. I watched it on 'Kevy Shaves' who is a great Youtube icon and said why not.
I also believe that the washer relieves excess tension on the thread, so I tighten as much as I can for even pressure across its length. I've never heard of tight joints breaking against multiple times that I have heard loose joints starting to wear their weakness points when they start to move.
I also tried replicating the strength of pot metal in fall situations. I couldn't get the incident forces above 10N and it says the zamak alloy in question is more than 30N tough, so I think it can resist falls of 1 storey high.
I also believe that the washer relieves excess tension on the thread, so I tighten as much as I can for even pressure across its length. I've never heard of tight joints breaking against multiple times that I have heard loose joints starting to wear their weakness points when they start to move.
I also tried replicating the strength of pot metal in fall situations. I couldn't get the incident forces above 10N and it says the zamak alloy in question is more than 30N tough, so I think it can resist falls of 1 storey high.
A Zamak primer: Zamak is a castable metal alloy, mostly Zinc, which, with the addition of small amounts of Aluminum, Magnesium and Copper (Kupfer), becomes, voilà, Zamak (get it? Z-A-M-A-K or Z-A-M-A-C). It shows up in surprising places - the firearms industry, for example, most notably Hi Point, but also in unexpected trademarks - like Colt and Ruger (mainly Zamak 3, the most common), in your car, your home electronics, your sports equipment, your kid's toys, your clothes. So it can be pretty durable stuff (Zamak 2 has a tensile strength of almost 60,000 psi - not too shabby). Its physical properties change based on the amount of other alloys (and impurities), and is classified according to its composition (Zamak 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 usually). I expect most razors would be made of either 3 or 5, which balances workability, strength and corrosion resistance, but I'd guess most manufacturers keep their proprietary secrets. The Achilles Heel of any zinc alloy is the zinc (about 96% in Zamak 3) - it's a weak and brittle metal by itself, and will preferentially oxidize over other metals in contact - the reason we "galvanize" (coat with zinc) sheet steel - the zinc oxidizes before the coated steel. That said, it's not a bad material (Zamak) for the right purposes - easy to cast into fine molds, cheap, dimensionally stable with excellent plating and finishing characteristics, whose physical and mechanical properties can be considerably modified with just the minor addition of other inexpensive metals. So hail the lowly Zamak, without which we would sorely miss a lot of our inexpensive shaving, shooting, fishing, camping, racing, biking, gardening and generally all-purpose enjoying-ourselves-outdoors type equipment as we head into a glorious Summer! 
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One can believe they will tighten as much as they can for even pressure across its length. In reality, the load distribution is not even in the case of the razor/handle threads.
One can also believe that the washer relieves excess tension on the thread. In reality, it doesn't.
One can also believe that the washer relieves excess tension on the thread. In reality, it doesn't.
M
mtcn77
Funny enough when I dropped the Yaqi slant from water faucet level, the detachable handle loosened rather than the razor head itself. I guess the brass thread jacket helped in this regard. It has a good fit.
I happened upon this video with a fairly simple way to repair a broken post on a zamak head:
While he says you can use a drill, he uses a drill press. The end result looks really cool.
I can't help wondering why razors aren't made this way in the first place.
Obviously, most zamak razors are meant to be inexpensive, and this would add cost. But some zamak razors are expensive, and would potentially last longer this way.
With a brass razor like Fatip, I would think it might be simpler and cheaper to use a glued in bolt instead of soldering in the post.
And then there are the stainless steel razors, some of which have one-piece posts.
Of course, if you are careful with your zamak razor and it is properly made and plated, the post won't break. Most people don't plan on keeping their zamak razor for 50 years, anyway. But then there are the old classic Merkur/Hoffritz slant razors, which were made of zamak. Some of them look great, but others show signs of problems with the zamak.
But the reality is most of us sooner or later drop their razor. And any post, no matter what the construction, is a weak spot. A user replaceable stainless steel bolt would potentially increase the life of the razor indefinitely. Oh, and you can change thread sizes on, say, a Fatip, or vice versa.
How well would this work in practice? I don't know. It might be a problem with thin caps. But it would be fun to try for someone who is handy.
While he says you can use a drill, he uses a drill press. The end result looks really cool.
I can't help wondering why razors aren't made this way in the first place.
Obviously, most zamak razors are meant to be inexpensive, and this would add cost. But some zamak razors are expensive, and would potentially last longer this way.
With a brass razor like Fatip, I would think it might be simpler and cheaper to use a glued in bolt instead of soldering in the post.
And then there are the stainless steel razors, some of which have one-piece posts.
Of course, if you are careful with your zamak razor and it is properly made and plated, the post won't break. Most people don't plan on keeping their zamak razor for 50 years, anyway. But then there are the old classic Merkur/Hoffritz slant razors, which were made of zamak. Some of them look great, but others show signs of problems with the zamak.
But the reality is most of us sooner or later drop their razor. And any post, no matter what the construction, is a weak spot. A user replaceable stainless steel bolt would potentially increase the life of the razor indefinitely. Oh, and you can change thread sizes on, say, a Fatip, or vice versa.
How well would this work in practice? I don't know. It might be a problem with thin caps. But it would be fun to try for someone who is handy.
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