Yellow Lake Oilstones

[Empire straights]

Pretty cool RH went to the trouble of checkering the feet. I couldn't say for sure what type of wood but the rays remind me of English Oak.

English Oak | The Wood Database (Hardwood)

www.wood-database.com

Thank you. I figured you'd know. I got a big, bark on, peach trunk and I can't decide what to do with it. Any ideas? Only thing I've seen made from peach wood was pork loins.

 

[cotedupy]

I did. It came from a seller I've purchased lots of charnwoods and llyn Idwals from. A couple Grecians.

In which case, yep - I would guess it probably is the 'normal' kind of DB Yellow Lake.

 

[Empire straights]

In which case, yep - I would guess it probably is the 'normal' kind of DB Yellow Lake.

Those are the yellow boxed ones right?

 

[SliceOfLife]

If memory serves the indicator is if the weird logo/flower thing in the red triangles are yellow or green. My "grecian/lynn id" Yellow lake had green triangles, not yellow.

Oli, You actually posted a great example of this on another forum (Top is a green triangle label/grecian)

 

[MasterOfPups]

Thank you. I figured you'd know. I got a big, bark on, peach trunk and I can't decide what to do with it. Any ideas? Only thing I've seen made from peach wood was pork loins.

Most fruit woods are hard, strong, and fine grained. Give it a try, it might make great scales.

 

[Empire straights]

Most fruit woods are hard, strong, and fine grained. Give it a try, it might make great scales.

I thought about trying to make some rustic whetstone boxes hammering splitting wedges into the timber for blocks/ planks and using a draw knife/ plane to smooth it some

 

[MasterOfPups]

I thought about trying to make some rustic whetstone boxes hammering splitting wedges into the timber for blocks/ planks and using a draw knife/ plane to smooth it some

I see no reason why not. Stay away from the pith of the tree though, it will eventually twist, crack, and split. I'd split the log right down the middle first, so you can avoid the pith being in the middle of your project board.

Fruitwood was often used to make wooden planes back in the day, due to its fine grain and stability. I have several that were made from apple wood.

 

[SliceOfLife]

If you've got a bandsaw and a chainsaw (or even an axe), you could break it into sizable chunks with the chainsaw; set it somewhere it won't get wet to dry for 6-10 months, then bandsaw it into blocks to make into boxes. Bandsawing green wood is not fun but technically you COULD do it green.

 

[Bowmaker]

I thought about trying to make some rustic whetstone boxes hammering splitting wedges into the timber for blocks/ planks and using a draw knife/ plane to smooth it some

It can be really difficult to split timber into planks. It wants to run out if not split in half and it's kind of pie shaped when split in half, really straight grain is needed. See making hand split cedar shakes.

Probably be better off bucking it into short lengths and sawing boards with a bow saw or similar, even a regular hand saw will do on short stuff. It will also give you the option of laying out the log to maximize the grain you want, flat sawn, edge grain, quarter sawn ect, an internet search will explain that.

 

[Empire straights]

It can be really difficult to split timber into planks. It wants to run out if not split in half and it's kind of pie shaped when split in half, really straight grain is needed. See making hand split cedar shakes.

Probably be better off bucking it into short lengths and sawing boards with a bow saw or similar, even a regular hand saw will do on short stuff. It will also give you the option of laying out the log to maximize the grain you want, flat sawn, edge grain, quarter sawn ect, an internet search will explain that.

I've been doing carpentry for quite a while for a living but id like to get into low tech hand tool, traditional methods, period woodworking. I think it's be fun. I want to learn peg jointing and boat building too.

 

[Empire straights]

If you've got a bandsaw and a chainsaw (or even an axe), you could break it into sizable chunks with the chainsaw; set it somewhere it won't get wet to dry for 6-10 months, then bandsaw it into blocks to make into boxes. Bandsawing green wood is not fun but technically you COULD do it green.

I season any wood I harvest before I use it for anything unless I'm specifically making stakes that need fire hardening, then green wood is OK.

 

[Empire straights]

In which case, yep - I would guess it probably is the 'normal' kind of DB Yellow Lake.

Here's some better pictures. Curiosity got the best of me so I got it out, lapped it and put a knife on it with plain water. Ohasn't really used it and I was expecting thuringian type abrasive but this stone is was faster than a thuri. I can feel the abrasive in the feedback but nothing under a finger nail. It was more comparable to la lunes than thuringians in the speed department. Interesting stone. Leaves a very fine smooth edge, so I probably won't use it on knives too much unless I'm going to be using them for wood carving of some sort but I bet it's a great razor stone. No reaction to vinegar.

 

[cotedupy]

Here's some better pictures

Ah excellent, thank you! Normally I find it almost impossible to positively identify slate hone stones on the internet... unless of course the pictures have been taken in extremely bright sunlight, with scattered shadows, and an indeterminate amount of water and/or slurry.

(Just joshing ya mate obviously . Your description of it certainly does sound like Aberllefenni YL).

 

[Empire straights]

Ah excellent, thank you! Normally I find it almost impossible to positively identify slate hone stones on the internet... unless of course the pictures have been taken in extremely bright sunlight, with scattered shadows, and an indeterminate amount of water and/or slurry.

(Just joshing ya mate obviously . Your description of it certainly does sound like Aberllefenni YL).

I'm the carpenter and farmer of the family, friend, mom and sis are certainly our shutterbugs. Honestly if I wasnt required to there is very little technology developed in the last 150 years that I would chose to use regularly. Wood, stone, metals, leather and livestock. That's squarely where I sit!

 

[Tomo]

I came across this one and thought it would be worth a try. It came in what appears to be the original red box. Fairly soft to lap with a 400 Atoma plate. Uniform dark grey colour.

199 x 44.8 x 12.5mm
301g
SG 1.73
Strong reaction to vinegar

 

[HoneThis]

By far the most common types of Yellow Lake Oilstone then are those that were sold in either Yellow or Red cardboard boxes. Apart from the colour the label design is effectively identical, and the same as that of the stone label on the Idwal Yellow lake. These stones are a fine Aberfelleni slate that was quarried for some time by Inigo Jones Slate Works and sold to AB Salmen for packaging and distribution. The same type of stone is currently sold by Inigo Jones under the Dragon's Tongue label, though I do not know if this is the same as AJ's Dragon's Tongue.

The Yellow Box version of the stone is twice the height of the Red Box, as well as being marginally wider and longer. The examples below have SGs of 2.75 and 2.76 respectively.

A similar, but not identical, stone was also sold by AB Salmen in wooden boxes, with a small label on the top of the box. Though some examples of the same have this replaced by the label of specific retailer or wholesaler. I have three of these stones with SGs in the range of 2.79 - 2.88. This may be the stone described by the late Neil Miller as such:

'Most of the hones appear greyish in colour, the actual purple ones being in the minority, and the grit equivalent of these varies between 6k and somewhere below 10k for the most part. However there is one other type that differs in colour and composition - it is almost black (or a very, very dark grey) and instead of being a siliceous slate it is a calcareous siltstone and gives results much like a Silkstone, superior to the rest of the Yellow Lake family of honing slates. The grit equivalent of one of these would be in the region of 11k or so.'


View attachment 1509294


Let's have a closer look then...

I am fairly certain that the two cardboard boxed types of stone are the same but in different sizes; they are dark blue-grey Aberfelleni slate, and they look, act and slurry identically.

The wooden boxed Salmen stone is different; it is grey-black with a darker slurry, some patterns on the surface, and a slight (micaceous? calcareous?) twinkle in the sunlight.

L to R; Salmen stone, Yellow Box, Red Box:

View attachment 1509295

View attachment 1509296


In use the cardboard boxed YLs feel extremely nice, they are slow and raising a burr is near impossible, though if used with slurry can be used for very fine knife edges still with some bite. They are better as razor stones, and will finish one happily as @Wid mentioned above. These are certainly a little finer than my modern Inigo Jones Dragon's Tongue stone, though perhaps not quite at the level of a Thuringian.

The wooden boxed Salmen stone feels a little less smooth under the blade, which I think is probably to do with the size of the micas, rather than the silica. The grit level and finish is very broadly comparable to the cardboard boxed stones; if it appears to finish finer for a razor I think that would be because the stone is even slightly slower than they are, and the edge more polished, rather than the particles size being smaller.

Both types produce a very clean and straight drop through kitchen towel, indicating a highly refined edge. Maybe the Salmen Stone on the left was marginally more effortless, but really these are very much in the same ball park. I actually like these edges quite a lot, if you don't overwork it - there is still just enough grip on them for kitchen knife use.

View attachment 1509308

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All in all these types of stones are very good razor finishers, though more difficult to freehand knives on, and certainly for those who like very sharp and quite refined edges. For straights I would be tempted to use them with oil, especially the Salmen stone, for knives water and a raised mud is essential.

I'm still undecided as whether the Salmen stone is the same as Neil M's 'calcareous siltstone... much like a silkstone'. I suspect it probably is, as there are a good few parts of his description that it matches closely. Though I wouldn't call it really noticeably finer than the Aberfelleni Yellow Lake Oilstones personally.

This was very helpful. I have a wooden boxed Salmen stone that’s 8x2x1” and wasn’t sure what it was. Thanks! (Photo included)

 

[cotedupy]

I came across this one and thought it would be worth a try. It came in what appears to be the original red box. Fairly soft to lap with a 400 Atoma plate. Uniform dark grey colour.

199 x 44.8 x 12.5mm
301g
SG 1.73
Strong reaction to vinegar

View attachment 1628293

View attachment 1628292

Very interesting T. Can you do me a slurry pic...?

 

[Tomo]

Very interesting T. Can you do me a slurry pic...?

I’ll try to get one on the weekend with some natural light. It was a dark grey slurry.

I put a couple of razors over the stone last night. The scratch pattern seems to be somewhere between my SG 10k and GOK 20k. The stone felt nice and smooth under the steel with oil. It’s looks a lot darker now that it’s been oiled up. HHT passed everything that I threw at it. Not the most silent HHT but it was catching hairs well. Nice shave this morning. Sharp and smooth. I’m happy with this one. Will be interested to see if the performance changes at all as the surface starts to bed in.

 

[Empire straights]

I’ll try to get one on the weekend with some natural light. It was a dark grey slurry.

I put a couple of razors over the stone last night. The scratch pattern seems to be somewhere between my SG 10k and GOK 20k. The stone felt nice and smooth under the steel with oil. It’s looks a lot darker now that it’s been oiled up. HHT passed everything that I threw at it. Not the most silent HHT but it was catching hairs well. Nice shave this morning. Sharp and smooth. I’m happy with this one. Will be interested to see if the performance changes at all as the surface starts to bed in.

When i lapped my yl stone the slurry was like cigarette ash grey. I have a WOA slurry stone I really look forward to trying on my yellow lake. Do you think the yl base or the woa will be kicking up slurry?
I want to try the woa on a Charnley. It's coming with 2 beautiful turkey stones and a blue Dalmore with a yellow Dalmore slurry stone, from a very generous member of b&b. Didn't realize until afterward. They're coming from across the pond but i think they'll come in tomorrow. I look forward to reviewing them.

 

[Empire straights]

@cotedupy as a side note this stone you identified as a yellow lake is probably the only slate I've ever felt was an amazing knife stone. It's very fine and I want to put an old carbon steel razor to it but it does, indeed, leave a very aggressive edge similar to la lune stones. I honed a knife on it and it took arm hair and dead skin cells cleanly, like butter, then I put it to one of my Grecians and it left an extremely keen/ smooth edge but it stopped exfoliating as much. I think I'm going to try plain yellow lake first and if I need to go farther I'll throw it on the Grecian. I've never put razor to this Grecian either and I've had it over a year. So far though they are premium knife stones.