Same here.
World Trend back to DE Shaving?
- Thread starter DoctorShavegood
- Start date
Same here.
As mentioned above, while it may be on the rise in the US Gillette is marketing hard all around the world, and that includes places where it's far more prevalent than here.
I like the phrases "traditional shaving" and "traditional wet shaving". They may be imprecise around here but relay the whole range of what we usually talk about: non-cart, non-can, non-electric shaving. Yes, it might mean a straight, disposable blade straight, SE, DE, or injector. It may be soap and brush, cream and brush, brushless cream, or (dare I say) one of the older rands of canned goo. But to me at least these phrases mark the split from the inferior mass market modern products and the increased attention and time given to the ritual of shaving to achieves superior result. There are plenty of members here using Barbasol or a Trac 2 that I think we'd still consider "one of us". There's such a broad range of what we discuss that I think these phrases, while imperfect, are useful and accurate in relaying what we do.
Scott
I like the phrases "traditional shaving" and "traditional wet shaving". They may be imprecise around here but relay the whole range of what we usually talk about: non-cart, non-can, non-electric shaving. Yes, it might mean a straight, disposable blade straight, SE, DE, or injector. It may be soap and brush, cream and brush, brushless cream, or (dare I say) one of the older rands of canned goo. But to me at least these phrases mark the split from the inferior mass market modern products and the increased attention and time given to the ritual of shaving to achieves superior result. There are plenty of members here using Barbasol or a Trac 2 that I think we'd still consider "one of us". There's such a broad range of what we discuss that I think these phrases, while imperfect, are useful and accurate in relaying what we do.
Scott
I always thought wet shaving just referred to the water that was added to the cream/soap in order to lather, vs lather straight from a can, that strictly speaking, doesn't require water (but who doesn't shave with water in some way or another??).
Its like the opposite of "dry cleaning" ie cleaning clothes using solvents without additional water.
at any rate, I don't think "wet shaving" is sufficiently clear to be a useful term for the masses.
I personally think its encouraging for the hobby that mainstream companies like Nivea are dipping their toes into the traditional shaving pool. even if we do turn up our noses at them for not having nostalgic sounding british or French names.
if I was them, id re-brand their wet shaving products under a name like Beiersdorf harkening to their heritage, with lots of antigue-y packaging to escape the box store image. id bet they could double their prices in doing so
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I was bearded for 33 years and finally decided that it'd gotten grey enough, it's lying about my age. (Ha) I always shaved the neck and cheeks to keep the beard trimmed and neat so I've always had razors around. Once in a while I'd shave it all off and just let it start new when I had to go in for "mole patrol" at the dermatologists. But once I started shaving it all, I noticed that the multi-blades were pulling and hurting if I let the stubble go more than a day. SOOO, what I thought I'd try would to get a single blade disposable to cut down the "forest" of stubble and then go over it with the cartridge system to really smooth it out.
Through all that, I'd tried things (from age 14) injectors, TracII, Sensors, Mach 3 and Fusion systems. Injectors clog, TracII was brutal, Mach 3 was actually the first cartridge that gave me a genuine BBS shave...but $$$$$ in blades. Fusion...not better than the M3 IMO, but even MORE $$$$$. I also tried a multitude of disposables over the years...and the Schick Extreme 3 gave me a great shave ....for 3 shaves and then it went dull.
So...after a lot of $$$ over the years, I decided to try 'old school'....and I'll never go back. Since I'd shaved in the past with non-pivoting razors, getting the hang of DE handles was pretty quick. Still searching for that perfect combo of blade and handle, but even with a Merkur 23C as my current, I'll NEVER go back to the wasteful (in terms of $$$) cartridges again.
With all that said, I don't think we'd see a large portion of the cartridge using public move to DE shavers due to the convience of slapping some goo on their face and pulling a self-guiding cartridge over their faces. No skill or art to it. No pleasure either, but what do they know? To them...it's a task and once done, they really don't want to think about it. Kinda like slapping some deo under the pits and moving on.
Through all that, I'd tried things (from age 14) injectors, TracII, Sensors, Mach 3 and Fusion systems. Injectors clog, TracII was brutal, Mach 3 was actually the first cartridge that gave me a genuine BBS shave...but $$$$$ in blades. Fusion...not better than the M3 IMO, but even MORE $$$$$. I also tried a multitude of disposables over the years...and the Schick Extreme 3 gave me a great shave ....for 3 shaves and then it went dull.
So...after a lot of $$$ over the years, I decided to try 'old school'....and I'll never go back. Since I'd shaved in the past with non-pivoting razors, getting the hang of DE handles was pretty quick. Still searching for that perfect combo of blade and handle, but even with a Merkur 23C as my current, I'll NEVER go back to the wasteful (in terms of $$$) cartridges again.
With all that said, I don't think we'd see a large portion of the cartridge using public move to DE shavers due to the convience of slapping some goo on their face and pulling a self-guiding cartridge over their faces. No skill or art to it. No pleasure either, but what do they know? To them...it's a task and once done, they really don't want to think about it. Kinda like slapping some deo under the pits and moving on.
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Double edge is the shaving tool used by 40% of the world's shaving population, so "the world" outside of ourselves never left it, despite some creative marketing and product development by Gillette throughout the world. As for the smaller parcel of the world in our own backyard, traditional shaving has been growing - tenfold in the span of about half a dozen years - but it started from such a small base that DE blades could not even be found in stores. Depending on what you read, of the 75 percent of men who do not use electrics, Gillette still holds some 60 percent of the market, Schick 18 percent, Bic 10 percent, housebrands 6 to 8 percent, and traditional shavers some 1 percent among whatever is left.
But that percentage is rapidly decreasing, with Gillette successfully positioning cartridge razors as the tool for the modern man.
Out of curiosity, where are those numbers coming from? I'd be interested in reading more about it.
I don't think the current resurgence is anything that will ever threaten the market dominance of current multi-blade cart designs.
People want speed, convenience and idiot proof design, and that's what they perceive they are getting when they buy a quintuple blade, gyrating, pivoting and rotating stubble slayer, endorsed by their athletic heroes and boxed in flashy packaging along with a can of super moisturizing, mega-glide inducing super goo.
People want speed, convenience and idiot proof design, and that's what they perceive they are getting when they buy a quintuple blade, gyrating, pivoting and rotating stubble slayer, endorsed by their athletic heroes and boxed in flashy packaging along with a can of super moisturizing, mega-glide inducing super goo.
While I think the number of people using DE / SE / Straight razors in North America is on the rise, the cart and electric manufacturers have nothing to worry about. I've read a couple of articles where retailers say sales are up dramatically, but like others have said, I think the majority of people want fast and easy.
I brought a case of Schick Quattro razors into the fire hall and the guys snapped them all up. When asked about them I said I don't use them because I use a DE razor I got a couple of "cool - old school shaving" from the younger guys and the rest were "that seems like a lot of hassle". My praise of the DE shave quality and even the economics didn't do much. Again, the prevailing comments were their current shave was good enough and it was quick. I think that probable sums up a lot of the shaving population.
I brought a case of Schick Quattro razors into the fire hall and the guys snapped them all up. When asked about them I said I don't use them because I use a DE razor I got a couple of "cool - old school shaving" from the younger guys and the rest were "that seems like a lot of hassle". My praise of the DE shave quality and even the economics didn't do much. Again, the prevailing comments were their current shave was good enough and it was quick. I think that probable sums up a lot of the shaving population.
I think there's some curiosity with DE shaving now. I work for a retailer that reset their shaving section recently. The section now includes the Van der Hagen razor and blades. There were 6 of them on the shelf and a week later I noticed we were sold out.
- Thread starter
- #131
Has a trend back to traditional wetshaving made any headway since my original posting back in April of last year? I think so. So many new artisans and websites. I see the trend in North America, but what about Europe? Are there any new start-up artisan operations in Europe?
There can be headway but whether it is significant or not really only matters when compared to the trend of the overall market which is still significantly larger. Our favorite topics are still but a small niche.
+1 I thought I laughed way to much alone for that line
Still laughing
I'm 22 and in school. A lot of college guys don't shave with a blade at all because it looks bad. It looks bad because the cartridges cost too much money. However, that means that if you can afford the good looking fancy working proglide and get a decent shave, you're becoming a man, right? (Despite what is thought here, the proglides are aesthetically pleasing, which is why they sell so much.) If you want DE to really increase, you have have to market to college age men. You need to convince them that a DE shave is better than a cartridge and cheaper. Also, it needs to be marketed as manly rather than cheap. That's the real crux of it all. Gillette has managed to market it's cartridges as manly, and therefore its worth the money. My generation is a generation growing up without fathers or role models, even if older men are physically present, and companies like Gillette have told us with commercials and ads what is masculine, showing through advertising that the proglide is part of shaving like a man and being a man. Shaving in this context is, by nature, a masculine thing. Guys my age subconsciously realize that society is stripping away masculinity, and they are being targeted by advertisers because of that. If DE shaving is to really grow it has to be marketed as masculine. Men take the time to get a good close shave in the morning, boys use a cartridge and throw it away. Men master a skill of lathering that varies from person to person, boys spray junk out of a can for ease. Men use DE shaving to set a mindset of patience for their day, boys shave in a rush. Axe, for example, sells because it is perceived as masculine, but even more so because it is "cool", even though we all secretly know most of it smells too strong and too bad. Package it with a modern idea of masculinity (sleek and stylish packaging for something tried and true). Shaving itself must be cool and masculine and a sign of being an adult, then DE shaving must be what real men and gentlemen do (not perceived as something older or weird men do).
That's how it must be presented. Also, someone mentioned hipsters earlier and how the fools are growing beards; jealously guarding DE shaving and enjoying that it is a minority is exactly what a hipster would do. Btw, hipsters are key. Everything that surges starts with a small part of the population before it gets larger. Get hipsters doing it and everyone will do it. Heck, in the US we are the shaving hipsters! No one my age is against DE shaving as much as they are for what is popular, like the cool cartridges. Someone would have to distribute supplies that are quality but at a reasonable price, and do it in person. Start in a college town and do demos on weekends and sell from a tiny store somewhere. If all people can get is a weishi or MT1 in target and don't know how to do better than the first bad week of shaving they get, they go back to cartridges or trimmers.
Long story short, it has to be seen as both cool and masculine by college age kids and have affordable but better than junk entry level razors and soaps. And again I emphasize cool. DE shaving makes you like James Bond, or the Most Interesting Man in the World.
That's how it must be presented. Also, someone mentioned hipsters earlier and how the fools are growing beards; jealously guarding DE shaving and enjoying that it is a minority is exactly what a hipster would do. Btw, hipsters are key. Everything that surges starts with a small part of the population before it gets larger. Get hipsters doing it and everyone will do it. Heck, in the US we are the shaving hipsters! No one my age is against DE shaving as much as they are for what is popular, like the cool cartridges. Someone would have to distribute supplies that are quality but at a reasonable price, and do it in person. Start in a college town and do demos on weekends and sell from a tiny store somewhere. If all people can get is a weishi or MT1 in target and don't know how to do better than the first bad week of shaving they get, they go back to cartridges or trimmers.
Long story short, it has to be seen as both cool and masculine by college age kids and have affordable but better than junk entry level razors and soaps. And again I emphasize cool. DE shaving makes you like James Bond, or the Most Interesting Man in the World.
Very well written Ryan. Now if only the marketing companies would take notice of it.
Sadly the profit for Can and Cart sales is very steep, the manufacturers are making large profit, as are the distributers as well as the owner of the racks at your local with the alarms on it. Why would any of them want to change that to cater to us? One $20 handle lasts decades, a blade 10 cents... where is the profit from their Can and Cart business going to go if they start selling non-disposable items?
Desi,
That's the tricky part. If we want it to resurge, we have to make an effort for resurgence. If you have a friend with a popular blog, do a guest post and ask him to try it for a bit. If your wife prefers your smooth DE shave, ask her to get her friends to suddenly replace all their husbands' junk. If you have a daughter, she should understand that the time and care a real man puts into little things like shaving reflect his attitude towards life. If a son, teach it to him explaining to him that the ladies love it and it teaches him more than just shaving. I'll be teaching my youngest brother sooner or later. Creative little ideas that have good effects. (Seriously, women who have DE husbands or boyfriends, get your girlfriends to have their men try DE. Women have power like that.)
As for the can and cart profits being steep, the consumer ultimately controls the market. If we really spread the idea of DE shaving, then companies will have to cater to DE shavers to keep profits. There has to be an organized effort to get DE discussions OFFLINE and cool. Is there anyone well known that DE shaves? Alright, have him talk about it. Even if he doesn't promote a product, it's still good. (Speaking of which, the Pawn Stars guy is seen as a bit of a joke, despite having made himself successful. What a bad choice to promote DE razors.) Perhaps this is where B&B takes a stand to better the lives of men everywhere in a way we're passionate about! Haha. For real though, the profit margins are where you point. If guys know that they can spend less on something that is better, and that it will make them "better", then they'll do it.
Another example, my girlfriend loves that I DE shave. When girls my age come over, if they need the restroom they come out asking if that's my shave kit, and then express the fact they think it's awesome I shave that way and "manly". Advertise using that (the same way old spice or whoever else does). By advertise I don't mean marketing companies, I mean us. It's a hobby of mine now. I talk about it to friends in real life even if they don't do it.
To hit on my main point again, we the DE shavers, not the companies, have to get offline and do the advertising and promoting. If you're a dude sitting on duplicates of a razor, spread em out and get other guys started. Younger guys love to be taught things and mentored by real men. If our community wants DE shaving to be mainstream bad enough, by golly we'll do it! Look at the Harry's razors. Let's start a Badger and Blade store somewhere! Pick a place that has a higher population of DE shavers and plant a little store. The key is having both quality and affordability, 'cause people love to buy things in person.
to answer the original poster, I think DE in the US is on the rise. In places where cartridges already control the market, DE can only rise even if it slowly. In places like India it can decline. It all depends on location. I'm DE shaving, whereas before I wasn't shaving at all! I think more stay with DE shaving than leave it. Steady increase over time.
I apologize for my long posts. I get passionate.
That's the tricky part. If we want it to resurge, we have to make an effort for resurgence. If you have a friend with a popular blog, do a guest post and ask him to try it for a bit. If your wife prefers your smooth DE shave, ask her to get her friends to suddenly replace all their husbands' junk. If you have a daughter, she should understand that the time and care a real man puts into little things like shaving reflect his attitude towards life. If a son, teach it to him explaining to him that the ladies love it and it teaches him more than just shaving. I'll be teaching my youngest brother sooner or later. Creative little ideas that have good effects. (Seriously, women who have DE husbands or boyfriends, get your girlfriends to have their men try DE. Women have power like that.)
As for the can and cart profits being steep, the consumer ultimately controls the market. If we really spread the idea of DE shaving, then companies will have to cater to DE shavers to keep profits. There has to be an organized effort to get DE discussions OFFLINE and cool. Is there anyone well known that DE shaves? Alright, have him talk about it. Even if he doesn't promote a product, it's still good. (Speaking of which, the Pawn Stars guy is seen as a bit of a joke, despite having made himself successful. What a bad choice to promote DE razors.) Perhaps this is where B&B takes a stand to better the lives of men everywhere in a way we're passionate about! Haha. For real though, the profit margins are where you point. If guys know that they can spend less on something that is better, and that it will make them "better", then they'll do it.
Another example, my girlfriend loves that I DE shave. When girls my age come over, if they need the restroom they come out asking if that's my shave kit, and then express the fact they think it's awesome I shave that way and "manly". Advertise using that (the same way old spice or whoever else does). By advertise I don't mean marketing companies, I mean us. It's a hobby of mine now. I talk about it to friends in real life even if they don't do it.
To hit on my main point again, we the DE shavers, not the companies, have to get offline and do the advertising and promoting. If you're a dude sitting on duplicates of a razor, spread em out and get other guys started. Younger guys love to be taught things and mentored by real men. If our community wants DE shaving to be mainstream bad enough, by golly we'll do it! Look at the Harry's razors. Let's start a Badger and Blade store somewhere! Pick a place that has a higher population of DE shavers and plant a little store. The key is having both quality and affordability, 'cause people love to buy things in person.
to answer the original poster, I think DE in the US is on the rise. In places where cartridges already control the market, DE can only rise even if it slowly. In places like India it can decline. It all depends on location. I'm DE shaving, whereas before I wasn't shaving at all! I think more stay with DE shaving than leave it. Steady increase over time.
I apologize for my long posts. I get passionate.
Wet shaving is not a threat to the mainline manufacturers of shaving products. That having been said, those of us who have been sourcing DE gear locally and following e-bay pricing for some time have seen where it is tougher to find DE gear locally and the prices for vintage De gear have gone up substantially both locally and on e-bay. From this, I think it is fair to draw the conclusion that there is more demand for vintage DE gear now than say, 3-5 years ago. How much of this demand is tied up with "collectors" rather than spread across the population is hard to say, but the apparent demand for blades, soaps/creams and other wet shaving gear indicates that there is more interest than in the recent past.
Would it be be safe to say that wet shaving is on the rise, with both safety and cartridge razors? I think that may be more factual. That is still good news for us if it's true.
