who can date this Rotbart

[mr-razor]

I´ve received this heavy (75g) beauty. I´m wondering about the date: on the backside of the card box is hand written 16 Feb. 1925. Means this, that Rotbart has slotted blades and NEW style razors before Gillette comes 1929 with his NEW? Is anybody familiar with the Rotbart timeline?

 

[BBrad]

The 1925 date on the box can't be right. According to Krumholz (p.73) Gillette didn't buy Roth-Buchner until 1926, and we would not expect to see Gillette technology on a 1925 razor.

Also, the development of the NEW razor and blades did not take place until 1928, which was also the time that Auto-Strop started producing the Probak razor.

 

[huck1680]

Achim
I've got the same razor and unfortunately I can't come up with a date either. Tried Waits and couldn't see the same razor in regards to knurling etc. Shaves nicely though.

 

[DutchmanRiver]

same like that gold plated one. pay attention new deluxe inner barrel style
thread

 

[mblakele]

Interesting anachronism, Achim - and a very nice-looking razor. I gather Otto Roth was in business from 1913? I suppose you know much more than we do about any historical archives that Gillette might keep in Berlin, or more likely discarded years ago. Is it possible to dig up the dates for Roth-Büchner D.R.G.M. filings?

There is a very similar razor at http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/165183-Identification-Rotbart-Mond-Extra-Gold-Set - tentatively dated to the late 1930s by member Rasierhobel.

I found one Canadian patent filing by Otto Roth, from 1929. As best I can tell the drawings show an Old Type three-hole blade: http://patents.ic.gc.ca/opic-cipo/cpd/eng/patent/290134/summary.html. Also the subject of the patent is stress relief to prevent blade cracking, and I understand that the final Probak blade design had the side effect of relieving those stresses. This is not conclusive evidence, but it seems extraordinary that Roth-Büchner would have developed this particular blade and holder design by 1925, just before Gaisman and Gillette did much the same thing. Surely that would have come up during the patent fight?

With all this in mind I think the easiest thing to believe is that the pencilled date simply represents something other than date of purchase or of presentation. Perhaps 1925 was a birthdate, a wedding date, or some other event in the past? And the razor was given years later, to remember the anniversary?

 

[alex2363]

Achim, I found this out, maybe it can give you a time line more or less.Acronym D.R.G.M. with or without punctuation stands for Deutsches Reichsgebrauchsmuster, means design or function of an item was officially registered inside the Germany states and not locally registered as was the case before the intro of centralized registration.
D.R.G.M. registration introduced 1891 and during Allied occupation up until 1949, registration procedures remained nd still used the D.R.G.M. registration documents, which explains why D.R.G.M. marks can be found on products actually manufacturd up until 1952( valid for three years). End of October 1952, all registrations were definitely marked with 'Deutsches Bundesgebrauchsmuster' (D.B.G.M.) or simply with 'Gebrauchsmuster' or 'Gebrauchsmusterschutz'

 

[alex2363]

Interesting anachronism, Achim - and a very nice-looking razor. I gather Otto Roth was in business from 1913? I suppose you know much more than we do about any historical archives that Gillette might keep in Berlin, or more likely discarded years ago. Is it possible to dig up the dates for Roth-Büchner D.R.G.M. filings?

There is a very similar razor at http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/165183-Identification-Rotbart-Mond-Extra-Gold-Set - tentatively dated to the late 1930s by member Rasierhobel.

I found one Canadian patent filing by Otto Roth, from 1929. As best I can tell the drawings show an Old Type three-hole blade: http://patents.ic.gc.ca/opic-cipo/cpd/eng/patent/290134/summary.html. Also the subject of the patent is stress relief to prevent blade cracking, and I understand that the final Probak blade design had the side effect of relieving those stresses. This is not conclusive evidence, but it seems extraordinary that Roth-Büchner would have developed this particular blade and holder design by 1925, just before Gaisman and Gillette did much the same thing. Surely that would have come up during the patent fight?

With all this in mind I think the easiest thing to believe is that the pencilled date simply represents something other than date of purchase or of presentation. Perhaps 1925 was a birthdate, a wedding date, or some other event in the past? And the razor was given years later, to remember the anniversary?

You and Porter always steer us in the right direction whenever these mysteries come up. I can appreciate your theory on this view, for the date on the razor just dont add up. It must have been a marking for personal reminder, and not anything else unless Gillette was compromised and secrets were exposed.

 

[BBrad]

. . . D.R.G.M. with or without punctuation stands for Deutsches Reichsgebrauchsmuster, means design or function of an item was officially registered inside the Germany states and not locally registered as was the case before the intro of centralized registration . . .

Sort of like Reg. U.S. Pat. Off. only different . . .

 

[alex2363]

Sort of like Reg. U.S. Pat. Off. only different . . .

Yes, exactly....but this one is foreign

 

[DutchmanRiver]

the former member Rasierhobel solved the mystery... he has a combined set with a optatus tank and the same silver plated version. the instructions of the tank is marked 9, 30. (september 1930). therefore the razor is from the same time period, late 20' early 30'
such a pitty that we lost the highly recommend member with a very good knowledge