What stones do I really need?
- Thread starter Sideburns
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #42
Which is why I specified middle class men.
- Thread starter
- #43
Wrong again!!
What you need depends on what you want to do.
If your razor is, really, not good - as in - the steel is junky, then it doesn't matter what stones you have.
If you want to learn to hone, start with good gear. You don't need to spend a fortune.
A decent vintage razor, good steel, decent geometry, isn't all that pricey.
Avoid the 'work my way up' mentality because it will just waste time and $$.
If you want to start with touch ups - start with the stones used to hone the bade the first time around.
If it was finished on, say - a Naniwa SS 12k, and you like the edge, start there.
I am not recommending Naniwa Super Stones as a path - do some research on those stones. Don't buy stuff because a bunch of people say 'buy it'. There are plenty of posts about Super Stones warping. I had one that warped badly and a few that did not warp at all. Warping is definitely a possibility but not a given. So, it's a gamble.
For bevel setting, I use a 1.5k Shapton Pro most of the time. I also have a Naniwa Professional 1000. Both were relatively inexpensive and they wear well, and have served without issue.
I am not a big fan of any Shapton Glass Stones for bevel setting. That 1k is too soft and slow for me. I do use the GS 4k, 6k, 8k, 10k for midrange/prefinish. All good.
The 5k Pro follows the 1.5k Pro well. The 12k Pro or 10k glass follows that 5k nice. The 10k Glass Stone leaves a pretty nice edge.
The King 1k is the cheapest 1k I know of but I dislike them tremendously. I do not want soaker stones, the feedback is awful and they cut very slow and wear very fast. The savings over better options is only theoretical.
The Glass Seven stones are cute but not really great for bevel setting IMO, esp when learning. The high grit examples are nice for travel touchups maybe but they can be tricky to use.
Combo stones can be cost effective, but if they warp then they aren't worth it. The other thing is that when working on the low grit side there is a chance of contaminating the high grit surface. With knives you may not notice, with razors you can feel it more easily. so a lot of care has to be spent keeping both sides clean. I have bought a few, and made a few, and now I only use single grit stones.
Budget is always important but sometimes being 'prudent' in one concern can cause issues in other areas of concern..
Working hones do not need to be over $100 each.
Not every stone needs to be bought all at once.
Previously owned stones, at lower costs, show up for sale on the BST or auction sites regularly.
If your razor is, really, not good - as in - the steel is junky, then it doesn't matter what stones you have.
If you want to learn to hone, start with good gear. You don't need to spend a fortune.
A decent vintage razor, good steel, decent geometry, isn't all that pricey.
Avoid the 'work my way up' mentality because it will just waste time and $$.
If you want to start with touch ups - start with the stones used to hone the bade the first time around.
If it was finished on, say - a Naniwa SS 12k, and you like the edge, start there.
I am not recommending Naniwa Super Stones as a path - do some research on those stones. Don't buy stuff because a bunch of people say 'buy it'. There are plenty of posts about Super Stones warping. I had one that warped badly and a few that did not warp at all. Warping is definitely a possibility but not a given. So, it's a gamble.
For bevel setting, I use a 1.5k Shapton Pro most of the time. I also have a Naniwa Professional 1000. Both were relatively inexpensive and they wear well, and have served without issue.
I am not a big fan of any Shapton Glass Stones for bevel setting. That 1k is too soft and slow for me. I do use the GS 4k, 6k, 8k, 10k for midrange/prefinish. All good.
The 5k Pro follows the 1.5k Pro well. The 12k Pro or 10k glass follows that 5k nice. The 10k Glass Stone leaves a pretty nice edge.
The King 1k is the cheapest 1k I know of but I dislike them tremendously. I do not want soaker stones, the feedback is awful and they cut very slow and wear very fast. The savings over better options is only theoretical.
The Glass Seven stones are cute but not really great for bevel setting IMO, esp when learning. The high grit examples are nice for travel touchups maybe but they can be tricky to use.
Combo stones can be cost effective, but if they warp then they aren't worth it. The other thing is that when working on the low grit side there is a chance of contaminating the high grit surface. With knives you may not notice, with razors you can feel it more easily. so a lot of care has to be spent keeping both sides clean. I have bought a few, and made a few, and now I only use single grit stones.
Budget is always important but sometimes being 'prudent' in one concern can cause issues in other areas of concern..
Working hones do not need to be over $100 each.
Not every stone needs to be bought all at once.
Previously owned stones, at lower costs, show up for sale on the BST or auction sites regularly.
- Thread starter
- #47
Thank you for that. One thing you have to keep in mind is that I'm not interested in starting a collection of SRs, just end up with at least one that I can use for day to day shaving. As what I have now will never be that good, I don't care if I muck it up while getting the basics down.
OK. One more try, and then I am out, and I suggest others do the same.
It does not matter how many razors you plan on owning or not owning. It does not matter if you choose to use less expensive hones, or buy the best ones money can buy.
If the thing you are trying to sharpen is not made in such a way that the bevel angle is correct to achieve a shaving edge, if the steel and heat treat is not capable of supporting the fine, thin and ultra sharp apex that a shaving razor requires, you will never, NEVER be able to pratcice using it to "get the basics down." Unless the basics is rubbing steel on a rock until it slowly disappears.
It is like the famous knife maker who literally sharpened and shaved with a spoon. Magic? Very expensive hones? Lots of practice? Yes, maybe all of the above. But what the secret really was, he forged his own spoon. From high carbon steel, quenching it and tempering it as he would if building a razor. THEN he was able to sharpen it to a razor edge, and the spoon took and held the edge long enough to do a shave.
What you are proposing is to grab a regular soup spoon out of the draw, and expecting it to in some way give a comparable result.
That is not getting the basics down. It is the exact opposite, because in order to learn the basics you need to follow the process, and test the results. Then rinse and repeat until you are able to achieve a USABLE and repeatable edge every time.
Buy a vintage coticule and learn how to use it. You'll be more frustrated at first, but you'll have a stone that can sharpen anything. I hate selling coticules, I try to give them to my son before I get an itch to sell them.
Correctly is the right answer.
I've had pretty good luck seeing bevels on an old fine India with mineral oil, quick and it's far with a really even scratch pattern and they're cheap. I was pissed at first when I picked them up playing stone roulette but I used one on my work knifes and was surprised at the speed of them. You'd never get half way to honing a razor on one but the fine ones are great bevel-setters and cheap as hell.
High @Sideburns
I’m new in these parts.
You will figure things out for yourself eventually, by doing…
…but I doubt you will continue without:
1) this becoming a hobby for you
2) having some sort of collection amassed
and…
3) Mastering Your Skills well enough to make the guy in the mirror happy…the ONLY thing you really need to do.
I’m new in these parts.
You will figure things out for yourself eventually, by doing…
…but I doubt you will continue without:
1) this becoming a hobby for you
2) having some sort of collection amassed
and…
3) Mastering Your Skills well enough to make the guy in the mirror happy…the ONLY thing you really need to do.
There are lots of good threads about different types of stones - like these:
www.badgerandblade.com
www.badgerandblade.com
www.badgerandblade.com
www.badgerandblade.com
If you want to learn to refinish shave-ready razors, you will need a finishing stone and at some point an 8k stone..
If you want to learn to hone from soup to nuts, you will need a progression from a bevel setter (like a synthetic 1k or 2k) through a finisher. This is going to cost more money.
And as other(s) have said, you can also buy stones one at a time.
"The Holy Grail" Bevel setter ?
Gentlemen I have got some ebay razors like Gencos, Wostenholms, Bokers and the like. Most of them are not honed and need an edge. While, I have been able to set bevels on some of them using a King 1000 (king 1k/3k) stone, there are challenges when the geometry is not right. The King...
www.badgerandblade.com
Favorite bevel setter?
I am planning to replace my Norton 220/1000 with something specific for my straights. I plan on just bevel setting with this, not for major chips. I will follow it with an soft Ark then back trans. What are your favorites? I am looking at Shapton Kuromaku 1500, looks like the shapton pro. A few...
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Best Finishing Stone and Reliable Source: advice for newbie
I am three months into straight razor shaving. I'm comfortable sharpening knives, so when I made the jump to straight razors, I immediately purchased a Naniwa 12K. I also have an excellent Llama 90K strop. I've been using these to touch up my razors. But recently, I bought a couple of razors...
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Need a New 8K
Hello All I never thought it would but it happened to me. My Naniwa Snow White has begun to craze and crack and I’m looking for a different stone to replace it with. I use it to set up for my finisher sometimes but it gets used most often as a lead in to any sort of testing using tomo nagura...
www.badgerandblade.com
If you want to learn to refinish shave-ready razors, you will need a finishing stone and at some point an 8k stone..
If you want to learn to hone from soup to nuts, you will need a progression from a bevel setter (like a synthetic 1k or 2k) through a finisher. This is going to cost more money.
And as other(s) have said, you can also buy stones one at a time.
The only thing I need to 'keep in mind' is this...
I use a straight to enjoy shaving with a straight.
Budget matters but not to where I let it degrade the experience.
Honing is part of the whole experience for me, i have to enjoy that part too.
Otherwise, there really is no point to it all.
Whether it's one razor or a collection of 50 razors.... it's always the same.
Objectively, a $20 set of A'zon stones is not going to get my edges where the stones on my bench right now do.
Also objectively, someone spending $250 on a 10k synth is not necessarily making better edges than someone with an $80 10k.
If the $250 10k person is actually making better edges, I guarantee it's not because of a pricey stone.
A cheap 1k, or 1.2k bevel setter, runs about $X retail. The 1k on my bench right now cost about $2x retail.
Objectively, my 1k makes a better bevel than the budget options will ever hope to produce.
While I could theoretically save a few $$, and 'get by', I am much happier with what I am using.
Everyone has a budget, and everyone should spend responsibly.
For me, if I needed a bevel setter, and I only had $25 to buy one, my best decision would be to wait and save up for a better stone.
If I had one razor that cost $50, I wouldn't let that prohibit me from buying a $75 bevel setter.
The $50 razor isn't worth $50 if it doesn't shave. And the bevel is the edge....
It's like cooking. I have a $10 bag of pork chops but I am going to cook them in a $200 pan.
And they will rock.
Griswold “Erie” number 9?
Pre Griswold "Erie" #10, probably.
Just used an Erie #7
You really should, extremely nice skillets. I use a couple of them, a #7 and a #8.
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