I've got an Old type ball end. I've seen references to the ball end "Brownie." Just what makes a "Brownie"?
I'm confused (which happens often).
Thanks.
Hugh
I'm confused (which happens often).
Thanks.
Hugh
What makes an Old Type a "Brownie"?
- Thread starter Gifford
- Start date
You're not confused at all, Hugh. A Brownie is a set name. Gillette would use the same razor in multiple sets with fancier cases and more accessories at different price points. There are Bostonian, Big Boy, Red and Black, just to name a few.
Look back at the old ads and you will see what I mean.
Also see Mr. Razor's site here for lots of good dope. It is very helpful for a newbie. It certainly was for me: mr-razor
Look back at the old ads and you will see what I mean.
Also see Mr. Razor's site here for lots of good dope. It is very helpful for a newbie. It certainly was for me: mr-razor
- Thread starter
- #3
Thanks! I've been spending lots of time looking at old forum posts and at the Wiki - so many of the old photos are no longer there - and there are references to the old catalogs in wiki but I can't seem to find them.
I had hoped that you'd give me the answer that you did. "One" razor marketed differently. I've looked at Mr Razor and will spend more time getting this sorted out in my head. Of course, if it was easy then anyone could do it and so it wouldn't be fun, right? (well, maybe).
Thanks again.
Now, back into the fray!
Hugh
- Thread starter
- #6
Thanks! It's all becoming clearer, now. Being a "user" and not a real "collector" I couldn't care less about having a case or not; but, the names confused me. Now, I'm unconfused. Thanks!
It gets worse. The old was followed by the New improved. The New improved was followed by the New. Clear as mud, I say
- Thread starter
- #8
Maybe the marketing folks should have called the model after the "New Improved" the "Even More Improved" ha! Somehow I doubt they were thinking of me 80+ years down the road.It gets worse. The old was followed by the New improved. The New improved was followed by the New. Clear as mud, I say
Hugh
I beg to differ with the notion that Brownies were special sets.
According to Gillette historian Russell Adams, the term "Brownie" was used by Gillette to refer to ALL the Old Type razors that were sold after the New Improved came out in 1921. These were the Old Types that were no longer protected by the 1904 patent, which Gillette sold for $1 apiece after introducing the New Improved for $5. Brilliant move to head off the impending flood of generic "Old Type" clones. If Adams is correct, all Old Types produced from 1921 on are Brownies. They were "sets" only in that you got blades with the razor. There were upscale versions sold with nice boxes that said, "Brownie", but most were just a razor and blades for $1. And Gillette referred to all of them as Brownies.
BTW, according to Adams, in the first two months of the New Improved's availability, Gillette sold 500,000 of the New Improved and a whopping 3 million Brownies. And the Brownie continued to be Gillette's volume leader throughout the 1920's.
According to Gillette historian Russell Adams, the term "Brownie" was used by Gillette to refer to ALL the Old Type razors that were sold after the New Improved came out in 1921. These were the Old Types that were no longer protected by the 1904 patent, which Gillette sold for $1 apiece after introducing the New Improved for $5. Brilliant move to head off the impending flood of generic "Old Type" clones. If Adams is correct, all Old Types produced from 1921 on are Brownies. They were "sets" only in that you got blades with the razor. There were upscale versions sold with nice boxes that said, "Brownie", but most were just a razor and blades for $1. And Gillette referred to all of them as Brownies.
BTW, according to Adams, in the first two months of the New Improved's availability, Gillette sold 500,000 of the New Improved and a whopping 3 million Brownies. And the Brownie continued to be Gillette's volume leader throughout the 1920's.
- Thread starter
- #10
Charles,
This is fascinating information. I'm not familiar with Russell Adams - did he author an article or book on the history of Gillette? If so, I'd be very interested in finding a copy.
The scenario you describe certainly seems to make sense. Astonishing 3 million Brownies in 2 months!
The plot thickens! Thank you.
Hugh
"The Old Type continues as "Brownie" and various other sets, but without serial numbers."
US Gillette Dating Information
US Gillette Dating Information
- Thread starter
- #14
Toby - Thanks for muddying up the water.
Clearly, this isn't a cut and dried issue. To satisfy myself I'm going to dig into the old ads and Mr. Razor site and anything else I can find. I'm a user and not a collector so it's not like I'm labeling razors for a museum. But, being a history guy I do want to know what I'm dragging across my face. Thanks very much for your input. You're the King of the Olds, for sure. hmmmm....that doesn't really sound like a compliment; but it is. 
Hugh
Wonder if Brownie was an ""insider" or cognoscenti term. Seems collectors would want to differentiate between the under patent 5.00 old type and the post patent 1.00 version. Shorthand, not anything official.
In 1921, Gillette changed the patent date on the Single Ring and Ball End Razors from the original 1904 patent date, to it’s new form, “Pat. Jan 13, 1920/Other Pats. Pending”. At this time, and due to the introduction of the New Improved line of razors, Gillette changed the name of the older “The Gillette Razor” to the “Old Type Razor”; which, in itself, now became a line of razors.
The Old Type razor was first featured in the later pocket edition sets, and finally in the Old Type and Brownie sets, after the 1921 introduction of the Gillette New Improved Razors. They were also produced under different model names, the only difference being the case or packaging, until their final production run ended in 1928 or 1929.
Beginning in 1921, all Old Type Razors were produced without serial numbers. In addition, several rare case variants were produced for special, very limited edition sets that were sold through the 1930’s.
Just as collectors, many years later, refer to what was originally named “The Gillette Razor” as the “Double Ring” and the “Single Ring”, they now refer to any Gillette Double or Single Ring razor as a group, known collectively as the “Old Type”. Care should be taken not to confuse this with the “OLD TYPE” line of razors produced by Gillette with this same name.
The Old Type Razor was produced by Gillette from 1921 to an unknown time in late 1928 or early 1929. All Old Type Razors are identified by the fact that they have no patent number, their type 102A head is thicker, and the diamond and arrow logo on the comb underside is only ⅞ of an inch in length.
The Old Type razor was first featured in the later pocket edition sets, and finally in the Old Type and Brownie sets, after the 1921 introduction of the Gillette New Improved Razors. They were also produced under different model names, the only difference being the case or packaging, until their final production run ended in 1928 or 1929.
Beginning in 1921, all Old Type Razors were produced without serial numbers. In addition, several rare case variants were produced for special, very limited edition sets that were sold through the 1930’s.
Just as collectors, many years later, refer to what was originally named “The Gillette Razor” as the “Double Ring” and the “Single Ring”, they now refer to any Gillette Double or Single Ring razor as a group, known collectively as the “Old Type”. Care should be taken not to confuse this with the “OLD TYPE” line of razors produced by Gillette with this same name.
The Old Type Razor was produced by Gillette from 1921 to an unknown time in late 1928 or early 1929. All Old Type Razors are identified by the fact that they have no patent number, their type 102A head is thicker, and the diamond and arrow logo on the comb underside is only ⅞ of an inch in length.
Hi,
To make it even muddier....they took perfectly good, finished, OT parts and ran them through more machinery to poke holes and raise bumps....and then called them Goodwill and gave them away.
When they ran out of OT parts to do this to, they then took perfectly good New parts and did it to those as well. Well, the New caps didn't get holes like the OTs did, but dents.
But, at least the Goodwill packages were so marked - unlike the Brownie.
Stan
To make it even muddier....they took perfectly good, finished, OT parts and ran them through more machinery to poke holes and raise bumps....and then called them Goodwill and gave them away.
When they ran out of OT parts to do this to, they then took perfectly good New parts and did it to those as well. Well, the New caps didn't get holes like the OTs did, but dents.
But, at least the Goodwill packages were so marked - unlike the Brownie.
Stan
+1! Precisely!
- Thread starter
- #19
Thank you, guys. I've learned a lot in the last couple of days. Printing out comments and photos for future reference, too. Your help is much appreciated. Gotta get a pre-1921 Old with the thin head.
Thank you all!
Hugh
Thank you all!
Hugh
I want one of each! Slowly getting a handle on the early open combs.
