What is a aggressive and efficient razor interpretation?

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Efficiency = energy out/energy in.
When the blade gap in is increased the aggression is increased. The result will be a wider angle of acceptable performance, less energy to to preform the function. The efficiency will be increased. Think energy!
MM879

Exactly! And with care, that aggressive razor will also be the most efficient.

I'm pretty sure you're right about this at least some of the time. I'm also pretty sure there's more to it. My guess is we're getting closer to a comprehensive understanding of what goes into it, an understanding beyond the basics, an understanding encompassing all the variables.

I know neither aggressiveness (as I define it) nor efficiency (as I define it) are entirely about the gap, and they may not be about the gap at all, particularly efficiency.

Consider the Fatip Mk1 Grande. Very efficient. Not aggressive. Hardly any gap at all. Also hardly any guard span at all. But, look at its blade exposure. Look at its blade rigidity.

Aggressive razors are prone to bite.

Efficient razors cut whiskers with fewer passes than inefficient razors.

Why? I'm not particularly sure, but interested.

We'll figure it out...

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Macfrommichigan]

An aggressive razor draws blood. An efficient one has me rubbing my cheek hours later and noting it is still smooth.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

An aggressive razor draws blood. An efficient one has me rubbing my cheek hours later and noting it is still smooth.

Yes.

 

[Twelvefret]

An aggressive razor draws blood. An efficient one has me rubbing my cheek hours later and noting it is still smooth.

Bad technique also draws blood.

 

[Roccomon]

An aggressive razor draws blood. An efficient one has me rubbing my cheek hours later and noting it is still smooth.

I am sure many have nicked themselves with a 34C, maybe even enough to use a steptic pencil. By your definition then a 34C could be considered an aggressive razor. I doubt many would agree.

What makes a razor aggressive to me, may not even register with you. There is more to this than just razor design, one had to consider personal values, technique, experience, etc.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

All razors have razor blades and can bite, but aggressive razors are more prone to biting you.

I am sure many have nicked themselves with a 34C, maybe even enough to use a steptic pencil. By your definition then a 34C could be considered an aggressive razor. I doubt many would agree.

What makes a razor aggressive to me, may not even register with you. There is more to this than just razor design, one had to consider personal values, technique, experience, etc.

That's acting like the razor makes no difference, which seems absurd to me. Some razors are aggressive. Some aren't. Regardless of the shaver using them.

Happy shaves in any case,

Jim

 

[Twelvefret]

All razors have razor blades and can bite, but aggressive razors are more prone to biting you.



That's acting like the razor makes no difference, which seems absurd to me. Some razors are aggressive. Some aren't. Regardless of the shaver using them.

Happy shaves in any case,

Jim

If you’ve been using the same raiser for 25 years and it’s not cutting up your face, I doubt he would say it’s aggressive.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

If you’ve been using the same raiser for 25 years and it’s not cutting up your face, I doubt he would say it’s aggressive.

Well, sure, it's working so why worry about it...

 

[Twelvefret]

Well, sure, it's working so why worry about it...

Yeah, but if you get a hold of it and it cuts your face, your think it’s aggressive .

 

[zed117]

An aggressive razor draws blood. An efficient one has me rubbing my cheek hours later and noting it is still smooth.

+1

Smooth mild razors can be efficient.

An aggressive razor can be efficient

An aggressive razor is never smooth.

 

[Clay S]

Bad technique also draws blood.

I think that is what he was getting at. If I slice my face up, it's aggressive. If you don't need to shave for a week, it's Uber efficient. Some people recognize their deficiencies, others don't. It's amazing the number of accident reports that have inanimate objects jumping into vehicles' path, or appearing out of nowhere.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Yeah, but if you get a hold of it and it cuts your face, your think it’s aggressive .

Not necessarily. I accept that any razor can cut me, but that is not the same as saying a razor which cuts me is aggressive. A razor prone to biting is aggressive.

At least that makes sense to me, but maybe not everyone.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Roccomon]

Like so many other post subjects, this one (aggressive vs efficient definition) may never have that definitive, 100% agreed upon answer. And that is what I find so amazing, that we can voice our opinions, even change them as warranted, without having that feeling that any one opinion is wrong or having been admonished.

I know that this reply is a bit off subject, but it is the one main reason I enjoy this site. Everyone has an opinion and for the most part, they all are treated for what they are: opinions, no more, no less. If they help guide someone toward the goal they are seeking, so much the better.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Like so many other post subjects, this one (aggressive vs efficient definition) may never have that definitive, 100% agreed upon answer. And that is what I find so amazing, that we can voice our opinions, even change them as warranted, without having that feeling that any one opinion is wrong or having been admonished.

I know that this reply is a bit off subject, but it is the one main reason I enjoy this site. Everyone has an opinion and for the most part, they all are treated for what they are: opinions, no more, no less. If they help guide someone toward the goal they are seeking, so much the better.

I too love all the varied opinions and value all of them, but I'd like to see an agreed upon language and nomenclature and much more precision in word usage, or at least more terms defined in context. I think it would make our lives easier, but I could be wrong.

When someone says Razor X is aggressive do they mean it is efficient or do they mean it is prone to bite? Etc?

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Roccomon]

I too love all the varied opinions and value all of them, but I'd like to see an agreed upon language and nomenclature and much more precision in word usage, or at least more terms defined in context. I think it would make our lives easier, but I could be wrong.

When someone says Razor X is aggressive do they mean it is efficient or do they mean it is prone to bite? Etc?

Happy shaves,

Jim

I support your line of thinking, agreeing on a set of objective criteria that would completely eliminate any personal subjective opinion should not be that great a challenge.

Blade gap, blade exposure, etc., can be used as objective criteria. Then by those listed criteria a razor can be labeled "aggressive", "mild", or anything in between.

What happens after you build up experience and comfort level with that "aggressive" razor and it no longer seems or feels "aggressive"? It just becomes another razor, at least for the user anyway, and this may be where the subjective personal opinion comes in, with the caveat of "experience".

Still, the acceptance of a set of listed criteria is essential for those who are shopping for a new razor, this would let them know how a given razor compares to other razors on an objective level. I would like to see each manufacturer list the design dimensions on their websites or on request before purchase so they could be compared to the our listed criteria.

These comparisons based on manufacturer design is how many of our daily purchases are made, such as cameras, computers, cell phones, the list goes on. Why not razors?

 

[Twelvefret]

Not necessarily. I accept that any razor can cut me, but that is not the same as saying a razor which cuts me is aggressive. A razor prone to biting is aggressive.

At least that makes sense to me, but maybe not everyone.

Happy shaves,

Jim

My point is that a person with experience with a razor would not find the razor prone to biting and not share your opinion the razor is aggressive.

I've heard the RFB are agreesive, not for me. I've heard the Red Tips are aggressive, I can't figure that one out. Razors like my rare Gleaner and the BFH show a lot of blade and can cut, but I would not consider them aggressive. They are effective, however.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

I too love all the varied opinions and value all of them, but I'd like to see an agreed upon language and nomenclature and much more precision in word usage, or at least more terms defined in context. I think it would make our lives easier, but I could be wrong.

When someone says Razor X is aggressive do they mean it is efficient or do they mean it is prone to bite? Etc?

Happy shaves,

Jim

We're kind of stuck with the English language, and since the same word can have different connotations, we have to use more words to target more precisely what we mean. We (you, Mike, me, and others) are doing this with the proposed safety razor survey that we're developing:

Fatip Piccolo (Mk 2) - How would you RATE its AGGRESSIVENESS?

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

We're kind of stuck with the English language, and since the same word can have different connotations, we have to use more words to target more precisely what we mean. We (you, Mike, me, and others) are doing this with the proposed safety razor survey that we're developing:

Fatip Piccolo (Mk 2) - How would you RATE its AGGRESSIVENESS?

Yes, I hope so, Grant.

 

[Esox]

Many call Fatip OC heads 'aggressive'. I can kind of understand why one might, but at the same time, no matter the angle used, its an easier, safer shave than the same shave with an R41 and the same blade.

The blade in the Fatip is simply more stable and less prone to flex. The more a blade can flex, the more 'aggressive' I consider the razor.

The Fatip is very predictable. The R41 isnt. It bit me twice yesterday just to remind me lol. My Grande hasnt drawn blood in several months and I use it far more aggressively than I do the R41.

Using my Fatip Grande again as an example, I use it so shallow I need to push the cap into my skin. Think of the red line in the picture below as the plane of my skin.

Used at that angle, directly ATG first pass at 50+ hours growth with either a Polsilver or Gillette Yellow its every bit as mild as a Tech and 5x's as efficient.

By contrast, the R41 can and did bite me yesterday, on my third pass;

Third pass ATG. Slight tugging throughout the pass becoming moderate under and up the face of my chin. The blade flexed and skipped at the left side of my mouth where the direction change is. One weeper there and another right side swirl.

That unpredictable nature is what I call 'aggressive'.

 

[AJG45]

An informative and fascinating discussion which reminds me that I really have no idea of what anyone who says "aggressive" or "efficient" is really talking about and has brought back a memory from the distant past of a sign which I used to keep on my desk which read:

I know that you understand what you think that I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard was not what I meant.​