What are these scales...?

[cotedupy]

I've had these for a while, though I can't remember exactly what razor they came on. IIRC it was something was something quite nice but beyond repair which I picked up for a few quid because I thought the scales looked interesting and quite nice.

I had them down as horn, but after getting out today and starting to clean up a bit - I'm less sure. The pattern and the way they're polishing is a little different from horn I've worked with before, so I was wondering if they could be turtle...?

Looked at back-to-back in normal light they're pretty dark, and the colours are slightly difficult to see:

But in the light they're really rather pretty. The colouration and patterning is more diffuse and swirled than would normally be associated with tortoiseshell scales, but probably within the bounds of natural variation I imagine:

After a bit more polishing:

Things that might count against (as fair as I understand anyway) is that they were pinned with collars, and that they're cut in a style and thickness I would normally associate with horn, they're not really thin like ivory scales are:

One last slightly unusual or interesting thing is that they don't have a wedge, it's just carved into the scale material:

So I was wondering - can turtle / tortoiseshell look like this? Or are they definitely horn...?

 

[cotedupy]

I put them on a razor after taking those pics and whatever they are, they're quite swish I think.

 

[Multum in parvo]

I rarely participate in such games as I’m not a SR user but it looks like dyed Horn to me…

I’m ready for the stones

 

[mycarver]

Beautiful razor and scales you have there!.
I’d say dyed horn. I have quite a few like this with the “wedge” essentially carved into each side of the scale. I’ve also made quite a few duplicating original scales.
Here’s some I could quickly grab. All horn.

But there are a lot of plastic ones done this way as well. Saves the trouble of fitting a wedge when you just cast it right in.

 

[mycarver]

This Jos. Rodgers is one example I made in order to duplicate the original ironing board scales.

 

[cotedupy]

This Jos. Rodgers is one example I made in order to duplicate the original ironing board scales.
View attachment 1651369View attachment 1651370

Very smart. Nice work!

I'd have go back and check my other horn-scaled razors, but I think this one might be the only one have like that. I've certainly not noticed it before.

 

[cotedupy]

looks like dyed Horn to me

I’d say dyed horn.

They're definitely not dyed horn - they're too dark and diffuse, and the colour / pattern goes all the way through. I think they're probably a kind of mottled horn. But it's not quite like anything I've come across before, and I do work with horn quite a lot. So was just wondering if turtle could look like this too...

 

[mycarver]

Yes, they are unusual . Tortoise? Hmmm. Maybe. I’ve never used it so I’m really not too familiar but some shells that I’ve seen I’d admit it could be. Those leatherbacks are huge! And sadly hunted quite a bit way back when.
Good call

 

[Legion]

Another vote for horn.

 

[mycarver]

It’s a conundrum I tell you!
Got me curious. Granted just quick searches but pretty interesting . Hawksbill turtles were the most common used. Here are some blurbs as well as a pretty compelling photo of the real deal.
I don’t know guys,,,

 

[mycarver]

Just had my shave and an ahhh-haaa moment in the shower.
I now vote for the only sane and logical solution to this is to follow clue #3 and see how far you can flex them until they snap. Then we can say “ yup,, horn or well look at that, they were tortoise after all”

Let us know how it goes.

 

[mdunn]

another horn vote, likely dyed

 

[mycarver]

From what I’ve been reading online , ( digging my own rabbit hole) and rereading #2, items appear brown , until held up to the light and appear amber,,, go back and look at his photos. Look at the photo of this large fan. Falls right in line. And the “dye” of different colors doesn’t just lay on the surface like other died scales I’ve worked but appears diffused throughout the material .

After research , and all the photos I’ve found. Videos from countries where they illegally make items from the turtles, seeing how it’s brown until you hold it up to light, and they then compare it to horn.
I change my vote. It adds a up and why not?
Or it’s the best dye job I’ve seen. Or maybe someone has horn that looks like this to show?

 

[mycarver]

With the size of that fan and it’s color I could easily duplicate these scales.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Well, if it's naturally mottled horn, it's one of the prettiest examples I've seen and fairly unusual.

 

[Legion]

 

[mycarver]

That’s the exact horn I order. I’ve gone through literally hundreds of sheets and ordering specifically colors that looked just like this.
I knew this existed. Not new.
But the patterns of colors of horn , dyed horn and how they appear do not match the patterns of tortoise
And how its colors appear.
All natural horn , as you can see in your example tends to be in streaks. As the horn grows, linear like a fingernail. Basically the same material. That’s one of the qualities I looked for. Then one end of the scale was dark, with streaks leading to lighter areas.
That’s not how the colors in these scales appear. In tortoise they tend to be in splotchy patterns, cloud like with soft hazy edges. Especially seen back lit. Not once has it appeared in horn. Because that’s not how it grows, in patches.
They ( tortoise) can and do have variations but most looked more solid brownish (like his one) and variations of amber to dark browns which appear when back lit as clouds as the second one shows.
Yes, the colors are very similar. But how they appear, because of how each animal grows the shell/horn makes a difference.
A turtle doesn’t grow a shell starting from one end of its body to another. Which would cause streaks as your example clearly demonstrates.
Can you see streaks in his scale held up to the light? No? Or is it more cloud-like with soft edges?
That’s why I think tortoise. Not horn.

 

[mycarver]

The first one here on the left is similar to your example and similar in color to how his scales look. Even the one on the right still shows streaks within patches of color. See how the color is dispersed in this and every other sample? All horn , showing a variety of color but dispersed in basically the same patterns
Because of how it grows on the animal.
Except for the last one, in splotchy random, not streaked pattern.
That’s because it’s tortoise. It doesn’t grow in a linear fashion like a hot that causes the streaks you show. It grows by expanding. That’s also why it’s more “bendy” as doesn’t have a growth pattern similar to wood grain.
And how many times have guys thought they had wood scales , seeing the grain, when it was horn? That’s not a shell.
Go back and consider how the colors appear in the hair comb, the bracelet, the fan and my razor. Do they look like any of my or your examples?
No.
A major difference from you example even if the colors are similar . You show streaks from dark to light. Horn doesn’t grow “mottled “
These are random clouds not in a streaky pattern.

 

[Legion]

I take your point about the colour, but I am pretty sure on the early shots of the OP's razor I can see some slight delamination on the edges? Tortoise should not do that. It should also not dry out and lose its luster with age like horn does.

@cotedupy , how do the scales feel when you pick them up and they are cold? Are they kind of glassy and hard feeling, almost like the inside of a glossy seashell, or are they kind of warmer, like well, you know what horn feels like. In the hand horn and shell feel kind of different.

 

[mycarver]

You see delamination and a turtle wouldn’t do that?
Why?
How do you think a turtle shell grows? It’s not one solid chunk like a piece of plastic which I admit, it can look like. As I kid growing up in the country finding turtles to seeing my sons red eared slider grow I’ve seen tortoise shells delaminate and or peel.
What you see are layers as this is how the shell is made.
As I keep saying it doesn’t start growing from one end of its body then extend to the other like a horn. It’s layers that can come off.
Peeling shell, like skin has layers. Not like a horn that grows out , in a line , from the animals skull. Actually a horn seems less likely to have layers which we know that’s not true either just like seeing layers in these scales.

I’d expect to see it. That’s why it can peel. It means layers. It’s not a clue.