Uneven grind on a new Boker?

[Bjornvetr]

I've used a shavette for six months, then my girlfriend gifted me a second-hand 5/8" Boker.

It had a slight frown, so I used some 800 - 1200 wet 'n' dry (on a thick glass surface) to fix it, then I set the bevel and honed it on my BBW / belgian coticule combo with progressive slurry.

After a while I noticed some issues, and my slightly-increased knowledge made me think there was something wrong with the razor itself.

Two months later, I bought (and restored) a vintage Wade & Butcher, and the difference was huge.

So, here are some pics of the Boker. Do you think the grind is asymmetrical?

I wrote to the Boker Facebook page, and they asked me to send the razor to their headquarters in Solingen. It could cost me more than buying a new vintage, I guess.

 

[GearNoir]

I’m just starting in SRs, but it at least looks symmetrical where it counts, the cutting edge and the immediate hollow leading up to it.

 

[Bjornvetr]

The main problem is the asymmetry in the area connecting the spine and the shank.
The two sides of the blade rest in a different way on the stone's surface, so the bevel is not equal on both faces.

 

[paintflinger]

You could tape the edge and work the razor on the side where the grind is off slightly in order to even them out.

What are the actual issues that you are having when honing. Your post doesn't give much to go on.

Looking at the end of the razor, the grind seems pretty close to symmetrical. Where the shank meets the shoulder, I'm not sure what kind of effect that might have on the honing experience. At least with gold dollars, you just avoid the shoulder area and hone on an angle where the spine is good.

 

[Bjornvetr]

The issue is that I can't get a good close shave on both sides of my face.
With the vintage Wade & Butcher I can get it quite easily.
The grinds look uneven, hence I thought it had something to do with that.
On one face of the blade the bevel extends higher towards the spine, compared to the other face.

 

[Slash McCoy]

"Uneven" bevels and grinds are generally a non issue, as long as both sides will meet in a nice apex when simply honed with no freehanding or weird taping. You might try honing it again, taking care to not let the shoulder ride up on the hone. It is possible, hard to tell from the pics, that the stabilizer is lifting the heel off the hone. Paint the bevel with a sharpie marker and give it 3 or 4 laps, and you will be able to tell instantly if part of the edge is not getting any contact. One way to address this, if this is the case, is to lead with the heel of the razor when honing and stropping, and try to keep the stabilizer off the hone. A lot easier than reducing the stabilizer, which eventually, years from now, you may end up having to do.

What is your honing progression? How well does the razor treetop, or HHT?

Don't rule out shave technique as the problem. Could be that modifying your shave angle will make it work for you. One side might work better with a different angle than the other. There appears to be enough asymmetry to possibly make a difference in optimum shave angle.

 

[Jnatcat]

Why is Boker wanting you to send the razor in to them ? has the razor been reground on a wheel by someone, pic #3 tells me that razor was not ground correctly

 

[Bjornvetr]

What is your honing progression? How well does the razor treetop, or HHT?

It had a frown so I sort of breadknifed it: I "stropped" at a 45 degrees angle on 800 - 1200 wet 'n' dry paper resting on a thick slab of glass. A 1000 / 3000 Naniwa is still on my "to buy" list.

I set the bevel on my BBW with slurry, then I went to the belgian coticule with slurry, then finished on the coticule plus water, and ultimately I polished the bevel on the coticule under running water.

Could be that modifying your shave angle will make it work for you. One side might work better with a different angle than the other. There appears to be enough asymmetry to possibly make a difference in optimum shave angle.

It shaves nicely the left side of my face, but not the right side.
The whole blade looks somewhat leaning on one side.

Why is Boker wanting you to send the razor in to them ? has the razor been reground on a wheel by someone, pic #3 tells me that razor was not ground correctly

No regrinds, as far as I know.
I asked the previous owner, and he confirmed that it has just the factory grind.

I wrote the whole story to the Boker Facebook page, in a private message, attaching the same pics you see here, and they asked me to send it over to them... to check the grind, I guess?

 

[Jnatcat]

You might consider sending it to them and maybe you would get a replacement

 

[skimonster]

I would send that back for a replacement, as it shouldn't have left the factory.

 

[Bjornvetr]

You might consider sending it to them and maybe you would get a replacement

I'll probably doing exactly that. I'm trying to figure out the return form they sent me, and a way to send the razor to them without having to pay 35 - 40 €.

I would send that back for a replacement, as it shouldn't have left the factory.

The main issue here is that I've bought the razor second-hand, not from their shop.
It shouldn't be a problem, or is it?

 

[chente12]

"Uneven" bevels and grinds are generally a non issue, as long as both sides will meet in a nice apex when simply honed with no freehanding or weird taping. You might try honing it again, taking care to not let the shoulder ride up on the hone. It is possible, hard to tell from the pics, that the stabilizer is lifting the heel off the hone. Paint the bevel with a sharpie marker and give it 3 or 4 laps, and you will be able to tell instantly if part of the edge is not getting any contact. One way to address this, if this is the case, is to lead with the heel of the razor when honing and stropping, and try to keep the stabilizer off the hone. A lot easier than reducing the stabilizer, which eventually, years from now, you may end up having to do.

What is your honing progression? How well does the razor treetop, or HHT?

Don't rule out shave technique as the problem. Could be that modifying your shave angle will make it work for you. One side might work better with a different angle than the other. There appears to be enough asymmetry to possibly make a difference in optimum shave angle.

Like an accidental kamisori.

I'll probably doing exactly that. I'm trying to figure out the return form they sent me, and a way to send the razor to them without having to pay 35 - 40 €.



The main issue here is that I've bought the razor second-hand, not from their shop.
It shouldn't be a problem, or is it?

Why does it cost so much to send it back? I do believe that they should pay for the return shipping, even if they end up deciding not to replace it. It's worth it as a company to pay a bit of money to inspect it and clear themselves of any wrong doing imo. And if they are responsible for it, then even more of a reason why they should pay for it. But I don't understand why the price is so high to ship something to Germany if you're already in Europe. I do wish you the best of luck in resolving all of this.

 

[Bjornvetr]

I'll probably doing exactly that.

I missed a "be", there.

Like an accidental kamisori.

Ahahah, you're right!

Why does it cost so much to send it back? I do believe that they should pay for the return shipping, even if they end up deciding not to replace it.

I'm looking for other options, the cost is drastically different with a courier company or another.
Boker, anyway, asked me to send the razor to them and it, quote, "should be packaged well and stamped sufficiently and we will check it".

The return form they attached to the e-mail has four options: repair, rework, replacement, refund.
Any advice about picking repair or rework?

 

[paintflinger]

Cheapest international is almost always USPS. I'd go with replacement otherwise it's probably rework.

 

[Bjornvetr]

Cheapest international is almost always USPS.

According to the USPS site, it would cost more than 35 € to send a small package from Italy to Solingen.
My girlfriend has bought that razor for 65 €, if I recall correctly. If there isn't a cheaper option, arguably -and sadly- it just isn't worth the expense.

 

[paintflinger]

According to the USPS site, it would cost more than 35 € to send a small package from Italy to Solingen.
My girlfriend has bought that razor for 65 €, if I recall correctly. If there isn't a cheaper option, it just isn't worth the expense.

Ohhhhh, didn't realize you're in Italy.

I have no expertise to offer then.

 

[Bjornvetr]

Breaking news!
In January we started kind of a local wet shavers' club.

Some of these fellow shavers examined my razor and advised me not to send it over to Boker.

They said the various sharpening attempts, done both by me and the previous owner, are quite obvious to the trained eye, and it's unlikely Boker would do something to fix it, without even considering the uneven grind.

Ok, I said, let's go full berserk.
I killed the edge on a glass, applied a layer of tape and went to town with a rolling X:
- on BBW with BBW slurry, until it managed to topple arm hair;
- then on BBW with coticule slurry, until it managed to shave arm hair without any fuss;
- then on coticule with coticule slurry, until the bevel was nice and shiny.

Then it occurred to me: why don't I add another layer? So I did it, and started over.
This time, after two hours of work, I polished the micro-bevel on the coticule under running water.

Guys. It shaves like a dream, now.
No nicks, no razor burn, no irritation, and more importantly, a complete BBS in three passes (WTG, XTG, kind of ATG with an angle). Even the usual difficult spots are smooth!

Either Crom took pity of me, or my Boker razor wanted to thank me for the effort.

Now excuse me, but I have to parade around and, even more importantly, I have to rub this pic on the smug face of my fellow shavers' who advised me to keep that razor just as a letter opener.

 

[GearNoir]

Well done!