Totally floored by my Boar

[Futur]

When I started DE shaving, I bought a Proraso brush (Omega 48 Pro Boar) and Proraso cream. This combination hardly produced usable lather at all for me, I mostly used canned gel until I got my first badger. The brush ended up in a drawer as soon as I got my first badger.

Yesterday I read a thread about how great Boars are with soap. Since I now prefer and mostly use soaps, I decided to try the 48 one more time, following these instructions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIsj58fqVjY

I was totally floored by the results, the brush just "murdered" that soap, this was easily the thickest, creamiest, slickest, most perfectly hydrated and best lather i have ever gotten from my Mama Bear Rosemary Mint soap. I have loved the soap ever since I got it, but I had absolutely no idea that the soap was capable of THIS As the video showed, the brush held the perfect amount of water. I don't think my badgers have the backbone to be able to do this and they would most certainly hold way to much water for me to be able to reproduce a lucky attempt on a regular basis. With the boar, anyone can reproduce what is shown in the video, even I got it right on the first try

I did 3 passes, just for the fun of it, the brush was stilll oozing with lather, I seriously think I could have lathered up half my body with all the lather the huge brush produced.
Since I normally only need 1 pass + touchup, the huge 48 is way too big for me and in dayly use would use unnessecarily much soap. After doing a little research, I ended up ordering the smaller and great looking Omega 81052 from WCS. I almost can't wait for it to arrive. If the brush works half as good as I expect, no badger will ever touch my soaps again, they will be delegated to only cream use

I think those that have not tried a good boar with soap are missing out on something great.

Hopefully my newfound enthusiasm for boars will subside a little over time, so I'll be able to use my badgers again ;-)

 

[michiganlover]

That method of lathering presented in that video is referred to as "Zach's Method". I consider it to be hugely wasteful of soap (all of that soap he washes down the drain as "useless for shaving" would be perfectly usable in any other method of generating lather).

Have you revisited the Omega boar with your Proraso cream? I have found my Omega #49 does an equal job on both creams, and soaps. Boar brushes are not regulated to simply working with soaps.

 

[Futur]

I didn't know this method had a name, thanks for the info

I also consider "Zach's Method" to be wasteful of soap, specially with the huge Proraso brush. That is why I ordered the Omega 81052 which is quite a bit smaller than both the brushes Zach use. I hope the smaller brush will will achieve the same results and use less soap. I will consider getting an even smaller brush if this one also holds way too much lather.

Before, I would have been perfectly happy with the wastelather of this method, it's about as good as anything my badgers and creams have produced. On a good day, the badgers and soaps could do a bit better. But now that I have tried the superior lather produced by Zach's Method (even superior to superlather), how can I go back? It is just highly addictive. I currently have 7 soaps and a couple more coming with my brush to fill up the customs quota. I'm thinking so what if it uses more soap, it only means that I'll be able to get trough my soaps in THIS decade, before the scents disappear I will certainly try this for a good while. If the soap use is obscene, I might have to think about something else, but soaps are cheap, so the usage must be really obscene for me to quit this

I will try my 81052 with my Proraso cream and see how it goes. The Omega banded boars are supposed to be better with creams than the Proraso/48 type knots.

 

[Gravy]

I consider it to be hugely wasteful of soap .

+1

He uses alot of water and then has no choice but to keep lathering on top of the soap until the consistency catches up w/ all that water.

The kicker is when he demonstrates how not to make lather by using less water. He goes at the puck for a 1/8 of the time previously and comments that, "actually it's not bad, not bad."

His "how not to" is how I build it on my brush and then start to face lather, wetting the brush if needed.
Works for me anyway.

 

[Futur]

Gravy, that seems smart I'll definatly try that

 

[Blondie]

You should like the 81052. I have one of those, and find it does a great job on soaps. Do you face lather or bowl lather? If you bowl lather, you can hold the soap dish over your bowl and catch that slurry like stuff and use it instead of water as you build your lather in the bowl. Less wasteful, and I think enhances the lather a little bit. I hope you enjoy the 81052. It is a little smaller than the 48, which I also have, and you are right, that handle is really cool. It is also a little more "broken in" from the start since the bristles are treated, and while it still has an odor like all new brushes, it is noticeably less pronounced.

 

[michiganlover]

But now that I have tried the superior lather produced by Zach's Method (even superior to superlather), how can I go back? It is just highly addictive.

If one's lathering skills are fully developed, I find "Zach's Method" to be fully unnecessary as it is too wasteful of soap for me to consider using it.

If your results with "Zach's Method" are vastly superior to your results using the standard method of making lather, I would guess that you are not loading your brush nearly enough. You are not using enough product.

I load my brush for very close to a minute. I want the brush to be fully saturated with soap. I also use an amount of shaving cream that is equal to at least double the usual recommended amount (I use an amount equal too at least two large sized almonds, as opposed to the single sized almond you hear most often recommended).

"Zach's Method" vs. the method recommended here in the tutorials are really just two different methods at accomplishing the same goal: finding the optimal product to water ratio.

The standard method starts out with a fairly dry brush, slowly adding water until the optimal ratio is reached.

"Zach's Method" starts out with a brush that is too wet, and adds product to the mix, until the optimal ratio is reached.

 

[Blondie]

I just noticed you also got it for about $3.50 less than I did. John just added it to the WCS website on Feb 22! I got mine at Shoebox Shave and it was a little more. FWIW, I have never been able to find lower prices than what John has on his site, and their service is impeccable. What's funny is the sites that sell stuff like MWF for more than double his price. Do they not shop around, and price check their market?

 

[Blondie]

You are not using enough product.

I load my brush for very close to a minute. I want the brush to be fully saturated with soap. I also use an amount of shaving cream that is equal to at least double the usual recommended amount (I use an amount equal too at least two large sized almonds, as opposed to the single sized almond you hear most often recommended).

I'm with you on that. I too spend more time loading the brush, as it is the soap, and not the water that provides the protection and glide for the razor. Water is just an enabling component of the mix.

"Zach's Method" vs. the method recommended here in the tutorials are really just two different methods at accomplishing the same goal: finding the optimal product to water ratio.

The standard method starts out with a fairly dry brush, slowly adding water until the optimal ratio is reached.

"Zach's Method" starts out with a brush that is too wet, and adds product to the mix, until the optimal ratio is reached.

Yep. And it is much easier and less time consuming to add a little water at a time to get the optimal lather than the other way around.

 

[cvac]

I would try loading your brush this way:

Shake out the water, then load soap until you can't load anymore on the brush. The bristles should be clumped with sticky soap (not wet bubbles) from top to bottom. THEN move to the lather bowl, adding a small amount of water at a time.

 

[Futur]

Thank you all for your input and feedback.
The quality of the lather I got with Zach's Method shows me that my lathering technique has not been good enough at all. My lather has been different degrees of foamy, not creamy, like the lather I get now.

I'm still a newbee to lathering with brushes. I think that Zach's Method should be recommended to newbees, at least so they get to know what good lather should be like. I think that many newbees gets their first DE shaves ruined with subpar lather, I know I did. Luckily I stuck with it.

I have been mostly lathering in a bowl, but I find I'm get better and better results with face lathering and I think that will become my prefered method. I find the 48 too large for face lathering, even though I can do it. I have high hopes that the 81052 will work much better for face lathering, with less of a mess to clean up.

I also noticed the great prices WCS have. I got the brush, a Tabac stick and a Speick stick, the total was still under the taxfree Norwegian customs limit of Kr 200 or about $32-34.

The thing I like so much with Zach's Method is that the lather is really built and ready to go streight out of the soapbowl. Little or no extra agitation is needed, so I can use the brush for exfoliation and a good facemassage in stead of whipping it about and adding water to create lather.

I totally agree that Zach's Method and the traditional way of creating lather is two different ways to achieve the same thing. While I'm sure the traditional way is less wasteful of soap, Zach's Method makes it much easier to achieve optimal results, at least it does for a newbee like me.
Up until I discovered Zach's Method, I considered Gillettes canned gels superior to all my soaps and creams for the purely technical side of shaving, cushioning and making the razor glide. Soaps and creams where just a luxury I used because of the great smells and the enjoyment and fun of using a brush in the old fashioned way. Now I also know better and can chime in when people say that the canned stuff is cr@p
Maybe when I get better at lathering, I'll be able to get the same results in the traditional way or find my own in between method.

If you load a brush for a full minute, you're also really digging into the soap. If you achieve a full brush with the same quality of lather as with Zach's method, I really can't see that the difference in soap consumtion should be that huge. The lighter foam that is discarded with Zach's method probably don't contain that much soap. The added benefit of the lather beeing ready to shave with streight out of the soapbowl, with no need for extra stirring and adding water to the mix means a lot to me.
For me, the biggest waste of soap seems to be when I rinse my brush. The brush allways contain enough soap to shave MANY more times than I need to, no matter which method I use.

For my shave today, I managed to use Zach's method with my Simpson Colonel in best badger. That wonderful little brush has a great backbone for soap and face lathering. With such a small brush head, I don't think I wasted more soap than is acceptable. Getting the same waterlevel, for repeatable results, as with the Boar, is a different matter alltogeather, but it will certainly do until my 81052 arrives

 

[Magic Man]

I prefer NOT to use a brush, but rather to lather up using my hands. I get a much closer shave that way.

 

[JPM]

Pretty interesting. I'm going to give that a try. I use creams primarily because I still have a bit of trouble lathering soap. And yes, I have looked ath the soap lathering tutorial.

 

[andrew98]

...

The kicker is when he demonstrates how not to make lather by using less water. He goes at the puck for a 1/8 of the time previously and comments that, "actually it's not bad, not bad."

His "how not to" is how I build it on my brush and then start to face lather, wetting the brush if needed.
Works for me anyway.

+1. I load a relatively dry brush with a thick soap paste, then build lather on my wet face, dipping the brush in a mug of water if necessary.

-Andy

 

[Painter]

Zach's a wild man! He's got cream everywhere - "good luck". Also, try putting a little hot water on your glycerin soaps, just the surface to soften it up. Yeah the Omega 48 is big, my head is like a rottweiller so it suits me. And, don't rinse your brush, squeeze it, then lather in your palm or face. I still think the big Omega is for stroking. Remember, like liquor, find just the right amount of water.

Hey I like that; Munch.

 

[Futur]

First I got RAD, then SSAD and now SBAD... Will this be the end of the shaving related AD's? Ordered a Semogue 620 today. It's even smaller than the 81052, about the size of my wonderful Simpson. I'm really looking forward to test these brushes.

Magic Man, I have only used my L'Occitane Cade SC brushless, but it's made to be used that way, as well as with a brush. I got a very nice shave. I can understand that creams could be used brushless, but are you able to use soaps? Can you get anything like the thich and lovely lather shown in the video in my first post?

JPM, I'm kind of the opposite of you I'm never satisfied with the lather from my creams, I stuggle to get it to a useful level and it's definatly nowhere near the quality that Zach's Method delivers. Soaps though, I have found them much easier to get good results from. When I started out, I only had the green Proraso cream. I watched Mantic's videos, but was never able to reproduce the results he got with his creams. I guess my then brand new Proraso brush has to take a good share of the blame for this. My best shave yet with a cream, was the L'Occitane used brushless I think if you try Zach's Method, you'll also be floored by the results ;-)

I tried to do Gravy's Method with my Simpson today, I tried to get the brush somewhere between bone dry and soaking wet. It worked great for loading the brush, much easier than with a dry brush that sticks to the soap. The thing I liked was that it wasted very little soap. The thing I didn't like at all, was that the lather was way to dry when I brushed it on my face. I had to use quite a bit of time to slowly add water to the brush and spreading it around my face to evenly hydrate the lather, to make it good enough for shaving. I guess this method can be improved drastically with practice, but I think I will prefer the ease and comfort of Zach's method, where you see and feel in the soapbowl when the lather is good for shaving, and no further "work" is required. I think a small brush, like the ones I have ordere and my Simpson, makes Zach's Method much less wasteful. I also think that with practice, I can get the brushes watercontent to a level that cuts down drastically on the amount of spilled soap, without compromising the ease or quality of the lather. This will be my goal.

 

[pal]

+1. I load a relatively dry brush with a thick soap paste, then build lather on my wet face, dipping the brush in a mug of water if necessary.

-Andy

++1 I think this is the quickest, most efficient method. As far as boar hair, ever since I bought a Semogue Excelsior #1305 Boar Hair Brush, I realized that I prefer boar over badger.

 

[Futur]

Zach's a wild man! He's got cream everywhere - "good luck". Also, try putting a little hot water on your glycerin soaps, just the surface to soften it up. Yeah the Omega 48 is big, my head is like a rottweiller so it suits me. And, don't rinse your brush, squeeze it, then lather in your palm or face. I still think the big Omega is for stroking. Remember, like liquor, find just the right amount of water.

Hey I like that; Munch.

The Scream by Edvard Munch sort of reminded me of what i felt like when I applied alcohol containing AS after my first DE shave with a Feather blade in my Futur and VERY bad Proraso lather ;-)

I agree that Zach's a bit of a wildman in the video, I'm thinking that maybe he's trying to show of his method and excagggerates a bit to prove his point?

Using my small Simpson, I don't waste anywhere near as much soap as he does and achieve the same quality lather and still far more of it than I need. I think I'm getting the waste down towards an acceptable level. I think you have a great point about finding the right mount of water. Since I for now prefer Zach's method, I still want too much water, but not WAY too much water. If I can find the amount of water that leaves my soapbowl close to dry when the brush is lathered up correctly, I think the waste also will be kept to a minimum.

When I tried my 48, it looked almost excacly as on the video, lather oozing out of the soapbowl But for me, that only shaves my face and neck and seldom more than two passes, normally one plus touchup, the 48 is just way too big. I'm sure I could have done 10 passes with what was in that brush I think even my little Simpson holds enough for 3 full passes for me, more than enough, but much less wasteful.

 

[Ignatius]

I would try loading your brush this way:

Shake out the water, then load soap until you can't load anymore on the brush. The bristles should be clumped with sticky soap (not wet bubbles) from top to bottom. THEN move to the lather bowl, adding a small amount of water at a time.

This makes total sense and seems to work for most guys. But using Zachs method just seems to produce a better lather for me. (well, using a wetter than traditionally advised brush to start - I don't use as much water or lather on the puck as much as he does). I'm not sure why, but I feel like a well shaken out boar brush won't pick up as much soap as a well shaken out badger brush; the bristle becomes fully clumped quite quickly (less of them as com. Badger?). This is evidenced more obviously with the harder milled soaps for me. This is all of course largely speculative, but if a wet brush works better for you, I say go for it; it is sort of self-regulating I feel.

 

[BentonClay]

I haven't tried boar yet but have become more and more aware of how much lather my 26 mm silvertip seems to hoard. It makes excellent lather but I'm always having to squeeze it out to make it available. So I like the idea of trying a stiffer badger or even a bristle brush.