thoughts on "sprezzatura"?

[tankerjohn]

Sprezzatura seems to be all the rage these days judging by the mens' style gurus on Youtube or other internet sites. What do you guys think? Is it desirable to affect a certain degree of curated dishevelment? Or does is it all just look sloppy? What say our Italian brothers like #Marco and #Mostho? Is this really a "thing" in Italy or just another American appropriation of the Italian language to sound cool (grande macchiato, anyone?)

 

[ouch]

Curated dishevelment? I call it the ouch look.

 

[davent]

Oh boy, a new oxymoron, i need no curation, i'm a natural. As i understand it this would be in the realm of the fashionista rather than that of the stylish.
dave

 

[Hoka Hey]

I prefer marinated dishevelmemt.

 

[Lmarkow]

Gesundheit!

 

[Doc4]

Gesundheit!

It being hay fever season here, I just sneezed twice, then scrolled down to the next post ... yours ... and, well, thank you.

 

[djh]

"Hey, look at me!"

 

[Lmarkow]

It being hay fever season here, I just sneezed twice, then scrolled down to the next post ... yours ... and, well, thank you.

You must be allergic to, "fashion." lol.
Timing is everything. I hope you don't suffer too long.

 

[The Knize]

<Sprezzatura seems to be all the rage these days judging by the mens' style gurus on Youtube or other internet sites.>

What are they saying exactly? To me sprezzatura really means nonchalance or perhaps a studied carelessness. The appearance of things being easy to accomplish, whether or not they are. Not actual dishevelment.
More like not matching of tie to pocket square, for instance. Sprezzatura is not what one is after for a job interview.

So, what I am thinking of is a good goal. Casual slacks not perfectly pressed, but of the right length. Or not of the right length if everything else one is wearing is just so. Color not perfectly matched up. Perhaps not matching colors in leather watch strap, belt, and shoes. There is that New England/Ivy League frayed shirt cuffs or collars, and worn or cracked dress shoes.

Consistent with what others are saying over precision is not a failing I need to guard against. I do not know what is passing for sprezzatura these days. To me, if it is obviously "studied" it is not sprezzatura. It is more like mannered. The opposite of what one is after!

 

[Doc4]

What are they saying exactly? To me sprezzatura really means nonchalance or perhaps a studied carelessness.

My understanding of sprezz is ... taking a lot of time and effort to make sure it looks like you didn't.

I could spend half an hour carefully ironing my linen pocket square into a perfect TV fold that fits exactly perfectly into your suit jacket and it would fit perfectly ... and I would be advertising my OCD to the world.

I could spend 5 seconds shoving my PS into my suit and hoping for the best, and 99% chance I get something much less, and look lousy. But there's always a chance that I nail it and it looks wonderful. Almost certainly not, though.

I could spend half an hour carefully arranging my PS to look like that one-in-a-million 5-second shove-it-in-and-it's-wonderful looks ... and that's sprezz.

 

[The Knize]

Got it! I understand. It takes me way longer to arrange a pocket square than it does to tie a necktie, and even at this age, wearing a tie every day, it takes me at least a couple of tries to get my tie looking half right, and it is not because I am trying to back away from 100% right!

 

[ouch]

Studied carelessness?

 

[ouch]

Ouchzzatura.

 

[The Knize]

Had not thought previously thought about Pee Wee Herman being a major Thom Browne influencer but I think he must have been!

 

[tankerjohn]

"Studied carelessness." "Taking a lot of time and effort to make sure it looks like you didn't." Yes, I think Knize and Doc have the concept exactly right. That's kind of what I meant by "curated dishevelment". I guess I don't mean complete dishevelment, just a something slightly out of place here or there to add the appearance of nonchalance. Just like you described. There seems to me to be a fine line between an element of sprezzatura that would look stylish and good and what would look odd, goofy, or slovenly. Like the Boston cracked shoe thing, of which I read that it looks patrician on a wealthy New Englander, but sloppy on everyone else. Then there's things that started as a sort of sprezzatura flourish and then became accepted as the "right" way to wear something. I'm thinking of dimples in ties or leaving the bottom button of a vest undone. (I know that came from King Edward because he was so fat or whatever. But seriously, the guy wore bespoke suits from the best tailors in England, so I'm guessing the button thing was just a rakish eccentricity.) Maybe even three-roll-two jackets, which were originally intended to look like three button jackets pressed for two buttons like cash-strapped college kids used to do.

 

[John Rose]

And here I thought that "sprezzatura" was a violin notation meaning to be played as a rapid series of pizzicata notes, high up on the fingerboard.
Live and learn, eh?

 

[Rusty Blade]

Sprezzatura seems to be all the rage these days judging by the mens' style gurus on Youtube or other internet sites. What do you guys think? Is it desirable to affect a certain degree of curated dishevelment? Or does is it all just look sloppy? What say our Italian brothers like #Marco and #Mostho? Is this really a "thing" in Italy or just another American appropriation of the Italian language to sound cool (grande macchiato, anyone?)

I have watched some of the YouTube videos on sprezzatura and I can't say I am impressed. "Look at me I am so different, I didn't do up my shirt cuff buttons, or my pocket square is oversized and clashes with my tie, which is tucked into my waistband and don't I just look so different and cool?" Sorry, I just think most of the sprezzatura guys just look lame. The uber rich guys that supposedly are the founding members of the sprezzatura club "look" in my view just look silly.

 

[Hoka Hey]

Johnny Depp seems to pull it off. Almost signature for him.

 

[paintflinger]

I always though Steve McQueen captured Sprezzatura well, effortless cool.

 

[Dadbar]

Isn't that just Italian for "slob?"