Thoughts on Smoked Brisket

[The Knize]

Forgive me for not searching through all of the past threads covering brisket on this subforum. I am sure some of the things I want to ask about or ask for "help in thinking about" are already covered elsewhere. By way of background, my local Costco seems to have started carrying full packer "cryovac-ed" brisket for $2.99 a pound. It may even be prime, I do not recall. About darn time!! So I got an eleven pounder and put it, trimmed to about a quarter inch of fat on top, slavered, rubbed, and let sit in the fridge for about eight hours, then cut in two and placed in my dorm fridge-type electric smoker with apple wood and a water pan at 225 degrees about 6:00 pm Saturday night. About 3:00 am it was raining really hard and I did not have the smoker under cover so I pulled the brisket pieces off and put then in a 225 degree conventional inside gas oven with a pan of water underneath. I think the internal temp was maybe upper 150s when I moved it to the inside oven. I would say it in smoke for maybe six to seven hours. At 8:00 in the morning or so, the meat's interior temperature was perhaps 170s. It slowly crept up to the high 180s, with some parts in the low 190s at 1:00 pm, when I pulled it out of the insider oven wrapped it loosely in aluminum foil and put both pieces in a cooler for the next six hours or so before serving. It was very tender and the flavor was great, although perhaps a bit dry.

Note I did not use a crutch during while it was cooking.

Issues:

1. I was really shooting for an internal temperature of 203, but it did not seem like it was ever going to get there, and I was afraid of it truly drying out. It was on at 225 degrees for 18 hours. Twisting a fork in it, it seemed very tender. I have read about pitmasters saying that a brisket is ready when it is ready, regardless of interior temp. Does this sound right? Did I chicken out? Should I have gone for 203 degrees and however darn many hours that might take? I have had nearly everything I have ever smoked stall in the mid-150s or so. This seemed close to stalling at 170 and it was a very slow rise in temp to get to the high 180s.

2. Does a crutch help with any dryness? For that matter, I am no expert in Texas brisket. I do not know how "dry it is supposed to be." Seemed pretty awesome to me. I have done smaller flats before. Seems to me I would rather have excellent bark that take a chance with a crutch and I was not really looking to cut cutting time. But now I am not sure.

3. I thought the apple wood did pretty well. I like hickory but to me there is little bacon flavor to hickory that is not really authentic to Texas brisket. Are we all convinced that after x number of hours additional smoke is really unnecessary/ineffective? Is it worth it to track down and order real post oak on-line?

4. Are we all convinced that one can't get a smoke ring with an electric smoker? Does it much matter?

Again, these are all things I am trying to think through re brisket. I am real pleased to be able to get whole briskets all of a sudden!

Thanks, Gentlemen.

 

[simon1]

I am definitely no expert, but I usually bring mine to about 200 or a bit above in the point. You'll find different opinions on temp. for it if you want it for sliced or pulled for sammies. And I've never used an electric smoker, so I really don't know.

Sounds like you got plenty of smoke on it for the time it was in. I wouldn't order post oak...unless you want. Just use some chunks of hickory or mesquite with Royal Oak lump charcoal for the easy smoke. I have a ton of post oak from a HUGE tree that fell. It's cut up into lengths but not split. I'll send you some if you want to pay shipping.

Oh wait...you have an electric smoker instead of a stick burner.

I've never cut the point off of the flat until it's done...so don't know how much that would affect it. The point gets done quicker than the flat...I think.

I always crutch...just because that's the way I've always done it. My rub is just salt, pepper, and garlic powder. I let the wood do the flavoring.

As far as smoke ring with electric smoker...I don't have a clue.

$2.99 a pound is decent; I think that's what I paid for the full packer I have in the freezer. I'm still waiting on another $1.99 a pound. I may be waiting for awhile.

Sounds like you did good on the cooking procedure... but different briskets are different. It depends on the cow, if they got excited at the packing house and their muscles were tensed up when they were knocked, how they were fed...etc. etc.

Aaron should chime in after a bit.

Aaron...Aarron...Aaron.

Edit: pics. or it didn't happen.

 

[The Knize]

No pics. I blew it by not getting some immediately. Eleven lbs of brisket on Sunday night dinner for my cousin, my wife, and me. Some went home with my cousin. I took a bit to work today for two people. And after the little bit I ate tonight it is all gone. Will have to get a bigger brisket next time!

It's not the $2.99 an lb price so much as I had looked all around the DC area in the past for full briskets, had asked at Costco, etc. and had come up empty. If Costco keeps this up, this will be great.

My rub was fairly simple, too. What you use plus some cayenne plus some prepared beef rub I wanted to use up.

I think I have always taken the flats I have done in the past to just above 200. But I have never had anything in a smoker for 19 hours.

I can probably find some of my own oak laying around. The opinions for ordering do not seem all that great. I do not think I want pure hickory after this last experience. The milder smoke of the apple seemed nice.

Thanks!

 

[kelbro]

18hrs in a stick-burner is not unusual for a brisket.

 

[DoctorShavegood]

Rob,

The reasons a brisket gets dry are numerous but two of those reasons are cooking it too long and letting salt be on the meat for too long. Both will reduce the moisture from inside meat. I like to smoke at 275 until it reaches and internal temp of 160-165, then I wrap it in butcher paper not foil. Foil acts like a braising technique and is really used to quicken the cooking process. As a rule of thumb, but not necessarily written in stone, is to smoke a brisket 1 hour for each pound of meat. So your 11 pounder should have been off the smoker at no longer than the 11th hour. As for salt, I only salt right before putting the meat in the smoker. Salt brings moisture to the top of the meat and can hinder smoke from making that wonderful color and bark. Cutting the brisket into two parts is ok, but each has to be cooked differently. The flat is thinner and leaner and will require less time. The point is fatty and will need that extra time. A good tip I learned from competition smoking is to simply use your temperature probe to poke the meat to see how tender it is.

Lots of practice helps you work out the kinks in your process.

 

[The Knize]

Thanks, Dr. SG.

Is your analysis based on your experience that internal meat temperature does not matter? I do not think this would have been near ready at the 11th hour. I was smoking at 225 not 275.

Thanks, kelbro. What do you think the temperature in a stick-burner typically is? 19 hours did not freak me out so much as it seemed like it was going to take a truly extraordinary time to hit 200.

What is the purpose of the wrap anyway? Again, I do not see a need to reduce cooking time to just get done faster.

There seems to be a variety of opinions about rubs and salting.

Thanks!

 

[Slash McCoy]

If it came out good, then it is good, and your method is fine.

I don't bother with thermometers. Once it has a bit of bark you can poke it with a fork and look at the juice that comes out. If nothing comes out at all, you can stop right there. Further cooking could dry it out more than you want. Judgement call.

Is it better to use a thermometer? Sure, I guess so. But I don't bother. Uses The Force, do I.

I do inject. Okay, so it's not authentic. This is Louisiana. We like to inject. I strain some off the shelf italian salad dressing, add just a bit of Tabasco, not much, and pump it up. I always inject from the top, through the fat. I usually don't flip the brisket. The fat can't do its job when it is fatty side down, and I just prefer not to disturb it more than necessary.

Last half hour I baste with a tomatoey bbq sauce. Don't use tomato based sauce early in the cooking... it will burn. I make my finishing sauce with italian dressing, tomato paste, brown sugar, yellow mustard, Slap Ya Mama or Tony's, and dry instant coffee. A bit of red pepper if I am feeling that way. Excess drips down into the pan with the steaming water and the meat drippings, and makes a great sauce for serving. I like the table sauce to be a little runny, almost watery. Makes for a nice moist sammitch. And BTW I only put about 3/4" of water in the pan, adding more as needed. That keeps the drippings concentrated.

Every time you open up and check it, you add another 20 minutes to cooking time. If your fire is not too hot, no need to check it at all for the first 4 hours. Sometimes I just can't help myself, though.

Sometimes I finish in the broiler for 15 or 20 minutes, to melt and sear the fat. Depends on how it looks. If it is already nice and crusty, no need. It will just char and taste burnt.

After 8 hours or so, even if it didn't reach target temp, it is gonna be tender. No sin to serve meat a bit on the rare side. Yankees used to seeing brown steaks in the grocery store might recoil in horror but if they just shut up and eat it they will probably decide they like it after all. Like green eggs and ham.

 

[DoctorShavegood]

Same here. I don't even bother opening the smoker for at least 3-4 hours. If yer a lookin' ya ain't cookin'. I also let the meat come to room temperature before placing on the pit.

....this thread needed some visuals:

 

[Slash McCoy]

Looks good to me!

 

[soccerguy83]

Not brisket, but I'm doing two plates of Beef Ribs this weekend!!! <----can you tell I'm pumped?

BTW Aaron, the above photos are making me drool!

 

[danek]

Your thinking sounds solid to me, but I will add me 2 cents:
Addressing your original questions:
1) Thermometers and temp is a good rule of thumb and gives indication of progress, but don't get too specific. I've had briskets done at 195 and others at 203.
2) My experience is the crutch does affect dryness, a little, but only to over-cooked brisket and only at the cost of reduced bark and texture quality.
3) I'm not convinced that after a certain time or temp it quits absorbing smoke. Maybe it's minimal, but it does semm to matter; maybe smoke-filled air carries chemicals that enhance texture and other traits other than just flavor.
4) Smoke is smoke - whether produced from fire or electric heat. I like the appearance of a smoke ring, but I can't say I notice a change in flavor.

The reasons a brisket gets dry are numerous but two of those reasons are cooking it too long and letting salt be on the meat for too long. Both will reduce the moisture from inside meat.

I disagree with the bit about salt drying out the meat. Salt DOES draw water from the meat, but so does dry ageing, and I think we all agree dry ageing improves flavor. By salting early, seasoning (salt) is allowed to permeate fully, seasoning all of the meat, not just the outside. I ALWAYS salt early. In fact, my salted steaks rest for over an hour before cooking, leaving a puddle of water on the resting plate and they are moist and flavorful as all get-out.

 

[The Knize]

Thanks for all the input. This is really great to have.

I think we can all agree that a smoked brisket is a wonderful, perhaps miraculous, thing. Perhaps it is because my family is from the more traditional South rather than, say, Texas, but I probably prefer for eating purposes a barbequed pork shoulder, or even ribs, over brisket. Yet brisket seems more special, more rewarding of getting it just right. I am far more drawn to cooking it than I am a pork shoulder. It is what I want to serve company. It is what I want to talk most about, clearly.

Those photos are great, Aaron. There's a nice smoke ring. And nice bark.

<My experience is the crutch does affect dryness, a little, but only to over-cooked brisket and only at the cost of reduced bark and texture quality.>

I am with you there. I do not plan on overcooking, if I can at all help it! And bark seems important.

<I like the appearance of a smoke ring, but I can't say I notice a change in flavor.>

So do you think, consistent with what others say on line, that a smoke ring is impossible with an electric smoker? Appearances do matter. If there was a flavor effect that would really matter. I have been pretty happy with this electric unit and it seems to allow for less work. It could be bigger, I suppose. There was no putting an entire packer brisket on one shelf!

<I disagree with the bit about salt drying out the meat.>

There do seem to be conflicting things said about salt and I do not really understand all the things that salt does to meat. As I recall, America's Test Kitchen promotes brining fowl, such as Thanksgiving turkeys, so that the meat will be more moist after cooking. I think ATK also has the theory that putting salt on meat for longer periods allows the salt to permeate the meat much more that simply shaking it on and cooking immediately. I really have no idea how this might play out for smoked brisket.

I brought some of what I made to work to someone who has more experience eating western brisket. She indicated that it was not at all dry for brisket. That makes sense to me. It was more my wife who thought it was relatively dry.

Re temps, remember the highest temperature any of this brisket got to was the low 190s. Most of it was really mid 180s. If it had gotten to a solid 195, I would not have worried about it.

Thanks!

 

[danek]

So do you think, consistent with what others say on line, that a smoke ring is impossible with an electric smoker? Appearances do matter. If there was a flavor effect that would really matter. I have been pretty happy with this electric unit and it seems to allow for less work.

Maaaybe smoke from fire has more fire-induced chemicals than hot-plate-produced smoke, so maybe that contributes to the ring? I Smoked for years in a converted full-sized fridge with a hot plate for smoke and a wee bit of heat and never noticed a consistent lack of ring.

 

[The Knize]

Meant to say that I found chunks of oak on Amazon and ordered some up. Not sure why I did not see them previously. I use chunks of wood, not chips, in the electric smoker. I think some seem to advise chips, but chips get used up very quickly in my experience and generate enormous amounts of smoke, which is not the idea as far as I can tell.

I got some alderwood, too, for salmon. Not sure it makes a big difference or not, but these are time consuming activities with expensive ingredients. Might as well "do it right." I truly enjoy this stuff.

<Maaaybe smoke from fire has more fire-induced chemicals than hot-plate-produced smoke, so maybe that contributes to the ring? I Smoked for years in a converted full-sized fridge with a hot plate for smoke and a wee bit of heat and never noticed a consistent lack of ring.>

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, they say, so I would say that your experience with the full-sized fridge conversion belies the idea that a smoke ring is impossible in an electric smoker. I am too lazy or I would dig a out link that argues that a smoke ring in an electric smoker is impossible because the ring is caused not by smoke but by, as you say, other fire induced chemicals that are created in abundance only in at higher heats than an electric element ever attains. I really do not know.

Thanks

 

[oc_in_fw]

Same here. I don't even bother opening the smoker for at least 3-4 hours. If yer a lookin' ya ain't cookin'. I also let the meat come to room temperature before placing on the pit.

....this thread needed some visuals:

View attachment 834173 View attachment 834174 View attachment 834175 View attachment 834176 View attachment 834177 View attachment 834178

I had a rib eye for lunch 3 hours ago, now I am hungry again.

 

[DoctorShavegood]

Rob, here is a 3 part series of videos that Aaron Frankin made that I learned a lot from. He has a BBQ joint here in Austin that is the best I've ever eaten.

First Episode: The Brisket

2nd Episode: The Cook
3rd Episode: The payoff

 

[simon1]

I can probably find some of my own oak laying around. The opinions for ordering do not seem all that great. I do not think I want pure hickory after this last experience. The milder smoke of the apple seemed nice.

Thanks!

Try some pecan next time...on something a bit smaller so you can see if you like it. A slab of ribs might work.

 

[The Knize]

I watched those videos. Thanks, Aaron. Interesting nuances. He does not use a slaver. Uses only salt and pepper as a rub and does not seem to do it much in advance. Seems to have mixed feelings on doing a wrap much less a crutch. Sets smoker temp at 250. Let's the brisket rest for an hour or so after smoking but does not put it in a cooler to stay warm for an extended period of time. Does not do anything re the internal temperature of the meat. Seems to do everything re doneness by feel and appearance. Uses a sprayer to keep outside of brisket moist, but also emphasizes that if you are looking you are not cooking, so says not to open that smoker very often. Does not inject. Says to expect an hour to an hour and 15 minutes an lb.

 

[kelbro]

I watched those videos. Thanks, Aaron. Interesting nuances. He does not use a slaver. Uses only salt and pepper as a rub and does not seem to do it much in advance. Seems to have mixed feelings on doing a wrap much less a crutch. Sets smoker temp at 250. Let's the brisket rest for an hour or so after smoking but does not put it in a cooler to stay warm for an extended period of time. Does not do anything re the internal temperature of the meat. Seems to do everything re doneness by feel and appearance. Uses a sprayer to keep outside of brisket moist, but also emphasizes that if you are looking you are not cooking, so says not to open that smoker very often. Does not inject. Says to expect an hour to an hour and 15 minutes an lb.

Yes, it really is that simple. Like many things, folks tend to over-do things. I've cooked literally hundreds of briskets just that way.

 

[The Knize]

<it really is that simple.>

Well, if anything, I think this thread should encourage folks to do a brisket in the smoker. I think there is some nuance there, but it will probably be pretty special if one stays within a few general guidelines, which are fairly simple.