They say an R41 is next only to a straight.

[craig94yj]

I have a question for the enlightened; Good Ladies and Gentlemen, I currently use a Muhle R41 DE razor as my daily shaver. I am also a head shaver. I have tried several razors in my rotation and none compare to my Muhle. I have seen posted here references claiming that the R41 is as close to a straight as a DE razor can get. I have also read in threads that your lather should be a little more wet when using a straight. Deductive reasoning would have me believe then that I should thin out and moisten my lather. I mostly use Proraso cream and I am quite satisfied with the product and my ability to make a good lather, but as we all know it's the tips and tricks that can take a product to an elevated level. So my question is;

What are your arguments either for or against thinning and wetting a lather?

Thank you in advance for your input.

 

[brother cavefish]

I have noticed the R41 , is a very picky razor, and a slicker face helps it along, i have had nothing but great luck with Derby,s on my DE89, (this razor works well with almost any balde) i put one in my R41 and my face tears up, right now i use Astras and personna reds and whether the lather is thick or thin and not Slick , the shave seams harder, -- i would not say Thinning is the answer but , trying a new soap or cream is--, i am not sure if it was the proraso but wrong blades and menthol and a R41 are as bad mixture for me--------the R41 is a close cutting razor and Needs a fully prepped and slick face, just a bunch of lather and no penetrating actions not a good idea , on this razor there is definetly a "right" combination needed to be found for each individual---------my other ones DE89, SS , 1904, not so picky

 

[craig94yj]

on this razor there is definetly a "right" combination needed to be found for each individual

I personally find with the R41 that a "mild" or "forgiving" blade does not work well with my coarse beard. The Feather is the best combo for me. I just bought a 100 pack of Personna Labs, but they still are not quite as good as the Feathers. I figured maybe an adjustment in lather would help the Personnas along. The shaves are fantastic and BBS. I just have to do four passes on my face with some buffing on the tough spots and two on the head with touch ups. The end result is worth the effort. I also use the sandalwood in the red tube. I just love the scent.

 

[brothers]

The R41 is not similar to a straight razor. The R41 toothcomb head is more similar to holding a DE razor blade in your fingers and shaving with it. The design of the bar results in the blade angle being less than in other DE razors. The R41 is just harsh. I use straight razors 2 or 3 times every week in rotation with a Cobra SE and a Barbasol DE. The straight razors are much more comfortable on the face than the R41. Regarding the lather, I mix mine identically, soap or cream, and give no thought to tweaking the water/soap mix just because the razor of the day might be a straight razor. In my own experience and opinion, it doesn't make any difference. I also use a brushless cream - Stephan's Stay Smooth - one out of about every 4 days, and use soaps and creams with a brush on the other days. The straight razors shave just as well with Stephan's as they do with traditional brush-mixed and applied soap and cream lathers. I enjoy my daily shave tremendously, now that I've got my razors and soaps and creams resolved to the point I know I'm going to have a great shave every time.

 

[ORGANIC MAN]

Just for clarification...are we speaking of the NEW R41? or old

 

[smalltank]

DE=bar..limits closeness
straight=no bar..no limit on how close these can get

 

[SliceOfLife]

I balance two aspects of the shave (face-latherer).

1. I want the lather as wet as it possibly can be without breaking down.
2. I do my second (and further) passes by rinsing my face and "re-lathering" by briefly scrubbing the brush around to apply.


This is a bit of a trick to trying to get the lather just this side of breaking down, but leaving a little space since the water on my face may slightly exceed the water the brush has lost during the previous pass. In the end, if I ever can add a significant amount of water to a brush after shaving and not have the lather fall apart... I failed to properly hydrate my lather.


In short: Water good. Soap good. Air bad (but necessary in extremely limited quantities).

 

[BrookR1]

The R41 is more like a shavette. Straights aren't as sharp (but more forgiving and more comfortable) than the R41. Slickness and protection are much more important. I use a pre-shave oil whenever I use my R41 to provide that extra bit of slickness needed to prevent cuts.

 

[Predict]

Why Is this in the soap forum? R41 is nothing like a straight btw.

 

[Manticorps]

Why Is this in the soap forum? R41 is nothing like a straight btw.

Because the post was asking about the making the soap lather thinner and wetter when using an R41.

That said, I think the easiest way for the OP to satisfy his curiosity would be to experiment with thinner lathers and more water. The tools are available to him and the results would be first hand rather than relying on second hand information or speculation. Try it and see. I know regardless of the razor used; if I err, I prefer to err on the side of too much water rather than too little.

 

[ORGANIC MAN]

My apologies...I misconstued the thread as an R41 thread

 

[Griffo]

I tend to use Proraso green tub whenever I use my R41. I find it gives me the most consistent results and for the R41 I prefer the sharper blades such as Feathers.

I like a fairly thick lather and find I get the best shave for me that way. I have to do 3.5 passes and the Proraso is always the most consistent at getting the right lather for me, I also find it the slickest as well which does help with the R41/Feather combo. I have very close shaves this way - the lather isn't what I would call thin though.

 

[Danricgro]

+1 to what Ian posted. I like my lather slimy!

 

[theJJ]

DE=bar..limits closeness
straight=no bar..no limit on how close these can get

If the blade edge sat below the bar, then you'd have a valid point. I know of no DE designed like that. lol

I also use a brushless cream - Stephan's Stay Smooth - one out of about every 4 days, and use soaps and creams with a brush on the other days. The straight razors shave just as well with Stephan's as they do with traditional brush-mixed and applied soap and cream lathers.

I'll have to try that sometime. I'm quite fond of non-lathering creams, Billy Jealously being the best so far in terms of performance.

 

[Predict]

Because the post was asking about the making the soap lather thinner and wetter when using an R41.

That said, I think the easiest way for the OP to satisfy his curiosity would be to experiment with thinner lathers and more water. The tools are available to him and the results would be first hand rather than relying on second hand information or speculation. Try it and see. I know regardless of the razor used; if I err, I prefer to err on the side of too much water rather than too little.

Actually the op says he uses proraso Cream. Not soap. But I recommend thinner lather for de and straights. The thick pillowy stuff just doesn't work for me. I find I have to drag the razor harder when the lather is thick.

 

[craig94yj]

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for your respected opinions. This forum is about sharing the experiences we've learned while wet shaving and I appreciate that you have shared yours here. I have some more experimenting to do.

 

[celestino]

When i used the R41, which i do not find as sharp as a straight, i used my usual lather with no ill effects.
You are going to have to experiment with your lather to see what you think.

 

[P Funk]

No special tweaks to the lather for me when using the R41.
When using a straight, I make the lather just a bit thinner, slicker than when using a DE. Not really a huge difference but just enough to help the razor glide along. The lather ends up being a bit more of a runny yogurt type mix as opposed to a regular yogurt type consistency.

 

[noahpictures]

In my experience thin lather doesn't provide the best results with Muhle R41 or any aggressive DE. Protective, slick lather is a safe bet even with straights.