The Great Rigid Blade Experiment

[kingfisher]

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I agree with @Esox and @Cal on the issue of pressure. I'm still not as experienced as others, but based on my experience with different amounts of applied pressure with different razors and blades, I've found that some pressure works best for me. I believe that I'm using a moderate amount of pressure, maybe even more than average, but that's impossible to say for certain. Some pressure is needed for me to control the razor and cut through my tough hair. With the Bevel, which I've just recently started using, I can apply even more pressure without an issue because of the smaller guard span.

Not to completely threadjack, but a long time ago there was a member here who called himself "Woodfluter." He posted one day about his method of shaving, that, to distill it to its essence, was that he used the mildest razor he could find (in his case, a post-war Tech), held it at an angle so shallow that it would not even cut whiskers at all, and then applied quite a bit of pressure as he shaved.

He said that by using an extremely shallow angle and then pushing the razor into the skin as he shaved he was able to get close shaves without any irritation whatsoever. There was a lot of discussion about it, but I don't think anybody ever subjected it to any kind of scrutiny. But it's pretty interesting.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

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Not to completely threadjack, but a long time ago there was a member here who called himself "Woodfluter." He posted one day about his method of shaving, that, to distill it to its essence, was that he used the mildest razor he could find (in his case, a post-war Tech), held it at an angle so shallow that it would not even cut whiskers at all, and then applied quite a bit of pressure as he shaved.

He said that by using an extremely shallow angle and then pushing the razor into the skin as he shaved he was able to get close shaves without any irritation whatsoever. There was a lot of discussion about it, but I don't think anybody ever subjected it to any kind of scrutiny. But it's pretty interesting.

That's interesting, Randall. I found woodfluter (profile URL) and he was last seen here over a year ago, so it's unlikely that he'd chime in. Your description of what he did made sense. I found myself doing that above the lip with the PAA DOC Satin.

 

[TheKman]

While I don't have a lot to add to this discussion, it's interesting readying. Subscribed.

I will say this though, in my limited experience and with my less than dense beard, clamp distance appears to make no discernible difference to my shave.

I'm still working that out, but I'm on the right track. For me, small guard span with effectively neutral blade exposure and a sharp blade has worked well. I suspect that shallower blade angles work better, too, but I haven't confirmed that

I'm with you there, 100%.

 

[Shavemd]

Ok you guys have convinced me. I just ordered the Fatip Piccolo since I have so much difficulty going ATG on my neck

 

[Esox]

In general, you're right, but it's not really about the mass but the mass moment of inertia. It depends on how the mass is distributed. Imagine all of the mass right near your fingers. All of the mass right near the fingers would make a razor that is very, very easy to rotate, no matter how heavy the razor is.

If I think about this stuff to much I feel like that guy in the movie Scanners just before his head explodes lol.

 

[Esox]

..

Not to completely threadjack, but a long time ago there was a member here who called himself "Woodfluter." He posted one day about his method of shaving, that, to distill it to its essence, was that he used the mildest razor he could find (in his case, a post-war Tech), held it at an angle so shallow that it would not even cut whiskers at all, and then applied quite a bit of pressure as he shaved.

He said that by using an extremely shallow angle and then pushing the razor into the skin as he shaved he was able to get close shaves without any irritation whatsoever. There was a lot of discussion about it, but I don't think anybody ever subjected it to any kind of scrutiny. But it's pretty interesting.

I've done the exact same thing with my NEW SC. The angle was so shallow the comb wasnt even in the lather and I easily doubled the pressure I'd normally use, if not more, and posted about it here: Gillette Silver Blue - A Review

While it did work, it was effective and very comfortable, maintaining that very fine angle and keeping consistent pressure over different areas of my shave I found very difficult and I ended up with a patchy shave the next day.

There is an inactive member of this forum who also touted a single pass shave.

On the road once again and I somehow managed to leave my MWF at home. So, off to Walmart to see what I can find in the way of shaving soap/cream. VDH Delux for $1.39 seemed like the best of what was there so back to the hotel to see how it works.

Standard "Lathering made easy" approach with my Tweezerman badger.

Wet brush
apply wet brush to soap
apply soapy brush to face and lather

stropped my Golden Edge on the heal of my left hand

Standard single NaturalPass(tm)

Cold water rinse and a splash of Clubman

Perfectly good shave, by which I mean no scratchy stubble, no irritation, no nicks, cuts, etc.

Yes, it can be done.

Yes, it can be done. Easily and effectively too.

 

[Esox]

While I don't have a lot to add to this discussion, it's interesting readying. Subscribed.

I will say this though, in my limited experience and with my less than dense beard, clamp distance appears to make no discernible difference to my shave.

I'm with you there, 100%.

It may not benefit everyone and it comes down to yourself as you're the only one that knows what makes your shave the best.

Ok you guys have convinced me. I just ordered the Fatip Piccolo since I have so much difficulty going ATG on my neck

Just make sure to keep your skin tight. The "Planer Effect" is very real.

 

[Shavemd]

It may not benefit everyone and it comes down to yourself as you're the only one that knows what makes your shave the best.



Just make sure to keep your skin tight. The "Planer Effect" is very real.

Tight skin and a very shallow angle ( razor head to skin) correct?

 

[Esox]

Tight skin and a very shallow angle ( razor head to skin) correct?

Thats what I do yes. With a razor as rigid as these are, combined with such little gap they can be very unforgiving of weaknesses in technique.

For example shaving with my NEW SC, when my skin bunches up, for lack of a better term, at the corner of my mouth the gap warns me to slow down or stop because of the amount of skin in the gap lets me feel it happening.

With the Fatip, there is no warning. If I let my skin bunch up, and I have quite often on the corners of my mouth just a little bit, it easily plans off the high spot and gives me a weeper.

It has however because of that, forced me to improve my technique and after a few shaves it wasnt an issue any longer.

Shave as you normally do, just use a bit more care until you become familiar with it.

 

[Cal]

Just make sure to keep your skin tight. The "Planer Effect" is very real.

Tight skin and a very shallow angle ( razor head to skin) correct?

Speaking as the founder of the PLC (Piccolo Lovers Club), if I was only allowed one razor it would have to be my Piccolo.

And, I'd just like to mention that I never bother to keep my skin any more tight than normal (barring a little neck stretching and funny face making). And, when I'm not shaving at the design angle (with guard and cap touching my face with equal [light] pressure) it's mainly always STEEP, hardly ever shallow.

Most importantly of course, I treat my Piccolo (and any other razor I use) with RESPECT. That's every time I use it, not just the first few times or weeks. I intend keeping my white belt clean at all times so that I will never become a "black belt."

 

[Shavemd]

Thanks guys. I ordered from Maggard so I should have it in a few days I’ll let you know how it’s works. I am very cautious with any sharp blade. I may not be the best looking guy but I like my face the way it is. BTW I used an Asylum Rx tonight with a Schick proline and could not go ATG on my neck, the blade definitely told me NO

 

[sw_]

I'm so confident in the fact that rigid designs in razors make such a difference, I'd challenge someone to wait 48 hours between shaves, load their EJ type razor with their blade of choice, and start shaving directly ATG and let me know how they make out.

Oh, that's exactly what I've done during my last three shaves. Used the same ASP for that. The first shave was with a shim, the 2nd and 3rd without. I was actually surprised that it worked as well (or as 'just ok') as my usual 2-pass+touchup method.

First shave: felt slightly rougher than usual (the blade somehow didn't feel as sharp). 2-3 weepers but overall almost DFS. Got the usual sting from my AS.
Second shave: more comfortable than the first shave, result just as good but without any weepers.
Third shave: almost DFS result but I had to do more buffing, the blade got stuck a few times on my trouble spot on the jawline left to the chin. Got a few weepers and notable irritation. The blade was definitively done.

Riding the top cap. Note that I always shave my head before I start shaving my face, hence the quick wearout.
It might have been interesting to shim the razor during the last shave. However it didn't make the shave more comfortable with a fresh blade so I doubt it would have helped with a dull one. Maybe my shim is still a bit too wide, I merely ground the edge off.

 

[sw_]

All of the mass right near the fingers would make a razor that is very, very easy to rotate, no matter how heavy the razor is.

I once had my dad make me this handle for head shaving:

While it definitively is extremely maneuverable it is unfit to the task because it lacks the ability to be used as 'lever': once the blade encounters resistance, it is really hard to maintain the correct angle. However, it still is the best handle for body shaving (weaker stubble) IMHO. Feels like peeling off the hair with your fingernails, very intuitive.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

I once had my dad make me this handle for head shaving:

While it definitively is extremely maneuverable it is unfit to the task because it lacks the ability to be used as 'lever': once the blade encounters resistance, it is really hard to maintain the correct angle. However, it still is the best handle for body shaving (weaker stubble) IMHO. Feels like peeling off the hair with your fingernails, very intuitive.

Wow! That's cool! Never seen that before! When it comes to body shaving, I imagine that it could work well in some areas, but not so well in other areas.

 

[Raven Koenes]

Think finesse and delicacy rather than "no pressure."

^^^This!!!^^^

 

[Esox]

Oh, that's exactly what I've done during my last three shaves. Used the same ASP for that. The first shave was with a shim, the 2nd and 3rd without. I was actually surprised that it worked as well (or as 'just ok') as my usual 2-pass+touchup method.

First shave: felt slightly rougher than usual (the blade somehow didn't feel as sharp). 2-3 weepers but overall almost DFS. Got the usual sting from my AS.
Second shave: more comfortable than the first shave, result just as good but without any weepers.
Third shave: almost DFS result but I had to do more buffing, the blade got stuck a few times on my trouble spot on the jawline left to the chin. Got a few weepers and notable irritation. The blade was definitively done.

Riding the top cap. Note that I always shave my head before I start shaving my face, hence the quick wearout.
It might have been interesting to shim the razor during the last shave. However it didn't make the shave more comfortable with a fresh blade so I doubt it would have helped with a dull one. Maybe my shim is still a bit too wide, I merely ground the edge off.

Assuming you're using an EJ type head, you would be the first person I've read that said they start ATG with a razor like that and there are very few of us that shave ATG first pass at all. Few actually seem to shave ATG at all with those razors.

The blade getting "stuck" or stalling and stuttering can be from a lack of sharpness and/or a lack of rigidity. If you used a razor that offered more rigidity, you would most likely see that sticking diminish or stop altogether. The tugging may increase however and if it did that would most likely be from a lack of sharpness. Only two blades of the nearly 20 I've tested have given me no tugging at all. Gillette Yellow and Polsilver.

The wider the shim the better it can work, but I dont shim and only have once. It did show about a 50% improvement but still didnt get me where I wanted to be.

I feel a bit better now knowing I'm not the only one to shave directly ATG first pass lol.

I once had my dad make me this handle for head shaving:

While it definitively is extremely maneuverable it is unfit to the task because it lacks the ability to be used as 'lever': once the blade encounters resistance, it is really hard to maintain the correct angle. However, it still is the best handle for body shaving (weaker stubble) IMHO. Feels like peeling off the hair with your fingernails, very intuitive.

Your father may have tapped a niche market there. I cant say I've seen a handle, or even one similar to it outside of the smaller travel handles, even remotely close to its design.

@rabidus might have an opinion on that.

 

[nvpliers]

That handle is cool!

 

[sw_]

Assuming you're using an EJ type head, you would be the first person I've read that said they start ATG with a razor like that and there are very few of us that shave ATG first pass at all. Few actually seem to shave ATG at all with those razors.

The R89 was my first safety razor, I've shaved my head like this ever since I started wet shaving. And I can do this with any DE razor, even with both the Tech or the Fatip MK1 (which has lots of blade exposure, hence the reputation).
Going ATG is much more difficult on the face and neck though. Actually I didn't even do that until half a year ago, tried it a few times as a beginner and thought it to be too difficult for a long time.
Usually my first pass on my face is WTG as well but I wanted to see what the shimmed razor can do.

The blade getting "stuck" or stalling and stuttering can be from a lack of sharpness and/or a lack of rigidity.

Or bad preparation. I even tried Feather blades and experienced tugging and stuttering ATG with these as well. Even in razors that are considered to have a rigid design such as the Fatip (MK1 with DE89 top cap, as mentioned). I suspect I still haven't found the ultimate soap or cream that softens my stubble well enough. And yes, I alsways take a shower before every shave.

Your father may have tapped a niche market there. I cant say I've seen a handle, or even one similar to it outside of the smaller travel handles, even remotely close to its design.

It feels perfect when doing some strokes without a blade. The actual shave is a bit fiddly though because of the aforementioned issue. Also, it only works on razors with a relatively flat baseplate.
The Colonial General shown in the pic was perfect for this handle. Unfortunately every AC blade I tried was completely unable to cut through my stubble. Even head shaves took ages. Actually I thought I had put the blade in the wrong way when I first tried it. Only the Feather Pro Super was sharp enough but also too harsh. So, it's definitively not just rigidity for me.

 

[Esox]

The R89 was my first safety razor, I've shaved my head like this ever since I started wet shaving. And I can do this with any DE razor, even with both the Tech or the Fatip MK1 (which has lots of blade exposure, hence the reputation).
Going ATG is much more difficult on the face and neck though. Actually I didn't even do that until half a year ago, tried it a few times as a beginner and thought it to be too difficult for a long time.
Usually my first pass on my face is WTG as well but I wanted to see what the shimmed razor can do.

I would think it much easier with a rigid design. Between an EJ type head and a Fatip head, I would think the Fatip head much easier to use directly ATG first pass. I'm sure I could with my Tech just as easily, but not nearly as efficiently.

With my NEW SC and a Polsilver blade if I start WTG/XTG first pass, then second pass is buffing ATG, I still need a single clean up on my neck. A 2 1/2 pass BBS shave every time I use it. I did the other day try using it in the same way as my Fatip starting directly ATG with a Polsilver, but it still took around the same 2 1/2 passes because the NEW SC isnt as efficient as the Fatip.

My Tech with a Feather or Gillette Yellow takes me 3 full passes and another 2 -3 clean ups over my neck. A less efficient razor again. I dont believe it would matter which direction I shaved in, it would still amount to essentially the same number of passes.

My Fatip Grande does in one pass what the Tech does in 5 and virtually a single pass with a Polsilver compared to my NEW SC and 2 1/2 passes.

Or bad preparation.

My prep is pretty simple. Saturate my skin with warm water, lather and shave. Only very rarely will I use anything post shave but a wipe with a towel.

I can get tugging with most blades, but I think that also depends on the razors gap and angle of use. With my NEW SC and a Polsilver, the standard I compare all my shaves to as its been very consistent for me, even it will tug a bit first pass. With my Grande however and either a Polsilver or Gillette Yellow blade, starting directly ATG I get very little tugging or none at all at any point in my shave. I'm not sure the factors differing other than blade gap and angle of the razor. I tend to shave shallow with all my razors.

I have virtually no experience with SE's at all, and none with AC type blades.

 

[rabidus]

It feels perfect when doing some strokes without a blade. The actual shave is a bit fiddly though because of the aforementioned issue. Also, it only works on razors with a relatively flat baseplate.
The Colonial General shown in the pic was perfect for this handle. Unfortunately every AC blade I tried was completely unable to cut through my stubble. Even head shaves took ages. Actually I thought I had put the blade in the wrong way when I first tried it. Only the Feather Pro Super was sharp enough but also too harsh. So, it's definitively not just rigidity for me.

Have you tried the Schick Proline blade? It's the best AC blade there is IMHO. It's the only AC blade I use and the only reason I use AC razors.

Feather and Kai

The General is a good entry into the AC SE world but that's about it.

I use the ATT SE1 and SE2, and the El Jefe, all outstanding razors with the Schick Proline blade. Did I mention that the Schick Proline blade is the only AC blade I use?

I prefer the MMOC for my head shaves, the extra width doesn't benefit me on my head shave.

As far as the knob handle...I don't think so, I need three fingers on the handle for control. A 3" handle is perfect.