The Great Rigid Blade Experiment

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Carpentry terns in relation to razor design. We may be treading beyond BOSC here!

. . . that bit of support at the edges and center really make it rigid, in the same way a wide span floor beam is shored up by a jack post. I can visibly flex the center of my EJ DE89 with my fingernail, but I'd need a screwdriver to flex the blade on my RR Teck II and it seems like it's because of those "risers" or "posts".

Maximum deflection when pushing down on a simply supported beam that has a pin on one end and a roller on the other end is proportional to L^3, the length of the beam cubed. The difference between deflection when pushing down on a razor with three risers (ends and middle) versus a razor with two risers (ends only) is roughly governed by a length of L/2 versus L, so the razor with three risers has a deflection that is (1/2)^3 = 1/8 as much as that with the two-riser razor. The razor with no risers, e.g., the EJ DE89, definitely has more deflection, but my simple comparison cannot be used to quantify it.

In my dream of dreams, rather than having a "pass around", we would have "pass-in", and send examples of all sorts of razors into 1 central place where they could be measured according to all these parameters, so that we could finally stop talking subjectively about "aggressive", "efficient", "mild" etc. I'd much prefer to hear about "blade exposure", "blade angle", "guard span", and "clamp distance". I'm a bit of an eccentric though.

I've proposed such a thing going back to last year, shortly after I started DE shaving, with the hopes that I wouldn't be the only one analyzing razors but that I'd inspire some others to get involved as best as they can. Several brothers here have graciously offered to lend me razors for analysis. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to take up their offers yet.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think that the single most important parameter in "rigidity" is "clamping distance".

Both the free-end distance and the clamp distance matter. You can have a longer clamp distance but less blade deflection with a shorter free-end distance compared to having a shorter clamp distance that is equal to the free-end distance. Think of pushing the clamp farther away, which would cause more deflection, but then add a one-sided support (not a clamp) close to the cutting edge that signficantly reduces deflection.

The EJ DE89 clamp distance is 5.44 mm and the free-end distance is 1.92 mm for an average 21.96 mm blade width, according to my analysis (URL for my analysis).

I think the absolute minimum "clamp distance" for any razor is when the "free end distance" = "clamping distance". I could be wrong about that too though!...

The last bullet point in my illustration notes how clamp distance is greater than or equal to free-end distance. You are right.

. . . my point is that on open comb razors, and "riser supported razors" like the RR Teck II, the presence of support on the bottom reduces "clamp distance" by definition. That may or not be important for rigidity. I think it might be.

Yes. You're right. Is the blade even clamped between the risers? Are the risers the only clamping areas?

It may well be that the most important thing is "free-end distance". My RR Teck II has the smallest "free-end distance" of any razor I've ever seen at 1mm. I really don't have a clue, but I can't wait for my Fatip Grande to roll in so I can begin to experiment and see what if any effect rigidity is having!

Clamp and free-end distances both matter, but maybe free-end distance dominates more for real razors. I don't know!

 

[Dovo1695]

I have the RR Tech 2 that I have not used yet and blade rigidity is the clamping of the blade by the top clamp and base plate, when you look at the surfaces of booth they are machined with no relief in either plates so they are perfectly smooth for the mating of the blade. If you have them very clean and clamp the two together you will not see any daylight looking at the end of of the razor because the mating is almost perfect and so blade rigidity is almost 100 % other than the blade overhang from the edge of the cap. The blade can not be held any better other than maybe putting a shim possibly under the blade to stiffen the underneath of the blade were some overhang can fractionally be supported.(you will not gain much rigidity.)

The RR Teck II was $5.00 when I bought my first, and it still was when I ordered 3 more a week ago to ensure that I would never run out. I've been at this for 17 years or so, and it's the best razor I've ever used for my crazy blade bending stubble. I never had an inkling as to why until I read this thread, but rigidity seems like an increasingly plausible explanation. Hence my interest in the OP's experiment! My avatar is Don Quijote, because I sympathize with tilting at windmills in the context of the search for the perfect shave...

My pride and joy is a Iwasaki Tamahagane Western straight razor, which may be the last one ever made. It is arguably the best straight razor ever made, handmade by one of the finest craftsman in the history of straight razors, and a towering figure globally in the development of modern steel. I can't be sure it was the last ever made, but it was sourced directly from the president of Shapton USA, Harrelson Stanely (Shapton stones are amazing Japanese waterstones!) who served as an apprentice to a very close friend of Kosuke Iwasaki. I now keep it in a safe deposit box, in a vaccum sealed bag, wrapped in corrosion inhibitor paper, with several corrosion inhibitor tabs. I take it out once a year to reapply mineral oil and refresh the corrosion inhibitors. In the picture below, the RR Teck II with the upgraded handle has been my daily driver for the last year, the other three I bought a week ago, and will go in the vacuum sealed bag with my Iwasaki. From where I sit, they're that special!

Here is my post from a week ago proclaiming that my RAD was over, and that I was satisfied that I found the perfect razor LOL. If the Fatip Grande beats the RR Teck II, I'll eat my words happily, and I'll have an inkling as to why...

My 17 Year Razor Search is Over: Strange but True!

Maybe it's the rigidity that makes them so special. I really don't know, but I'm not kidding when I say that I'm following this thread with enormous interest!

 

[Ron R]

The RR Teck II was $5.00 when I bought my first, and it still was when I ordered 3 more a week ago to ensure that I would never run out. I've been at this for 17 years or so, and it's the best razor I've ever used for my crazy blade bending stubble. I never had an inkling as to why until I read this thread, but rigidity seems like an increasingly plausible explanation. Hence my interest in the OP's experiment! My avatar is Don Quijote, because I sympathize with tilting at windmills in the context of the search for the perfect shave...

My pride and joy is a Iwasaki Tamahagane Western straight razor, which may be the last one ever made. It is arguably the best straight razor ever made, handmade by one of the finest craftsman in the history of straight razors, and a towering figure globally in the development of modern steel. I can't be sure it was the last ever made, but it was sourced directly from the president of Shapton USA, Harrelson Stanely (Shapton stones are amazing Japanese waterstones!) who served as an apprentice to a very close friend of Kosuke Iwasaki. I now keep it in a safe deposit box, in a vaccum sealed bag, wrapped in corrosion inhibitor paper, with several corrosion inhibitor tabs. I take it out once a year to reapply mineral oil and refresh the corrosion inhibitors. In the picture below, the RR Teck II with the upgraded handle has been my daily driver for the last year, the other three I bought a week ago, and will go in the vacuum sealed bag with my Iwasaki. From where I sit, they're that special!

Here is my post from a week ago proclaiming that my RAD was over, and that I was satisfied that I found the perfect razor LOL. If the Fatip Grande beats the RR Teck II, I'll eat my words happily, and I'll have an inkling as to why...

My 17 Year Razor Search is Over: Strange but True!

Maybe it's the rigidity that makes them so special. I really don't know, but I'm not kidding when I say that I'm following this thread with enormous interest!

That is a good stash for sure and a good backup for a lifetime no doubt. I have a good sign(gauge) of BOSC for all of us is when we talk about razors more than it takes to do a morning shave.!

 

[Dovo1695]

Yes. You're right. Is the blade even clamped between the risers? Are the risers the only clamping areas?

Clamp and free-end distances both matter, but maybe free-end distance dominates more for real razors. I don't know!

Yes the on the RR Teck II, the blade is clamped between the top cap and each of the risers.

You may be right that free-end distance is more important than clamping distance for blade deflection, because the direction of force is always up against the top cap. I can't think of an instance during normal shaving where there would be force pushing the edge ow the razor down towards the bottom cap. This would explain why EJ DE89 can get away with a 5.44mm clamping distance.

That got me thinking about what role the clamping distance does play, and that got me thinking about sound, and vibration. When you shave with a super thin hollow ground straight razor, it tends to make a sound like buttering burnt toast that can be heard clear across the room. However when you shave with a thick wedge ground razor, it makes little noise at all. Our DE razors are similar in that some tend to be more quiet, and some tend to be a bit louder. Sound is vibration. Vibration suggests that something is moving, and it's either the hair or the razor (or both) making the sound. If something is moving, it is by definition deflecting, and it's easie

Could it be that clamping distance reduces the ability of the razor blade to vibrate? Are razors with a short clamping distance more quiet? Is the Fatip Grande, which has a very short clamping distance (~2mm) more quiet than most razors? Could the reduction of vibration/sound contribute to the "smoothness" of the shave, and the reduction of tugging and irritation? Is vibration resistance a component of rigidity? I haven't a clue but it's interesting to think about.

 

[Ron R]

Yes the on the RR Teck II, the blade is clamped between the top cap and each of the risers.

You may be right that free-end distance is more important than clamping distance for blade deflection, because the direction of force is always up against the top cap. I can't think of an instance during normal shaving where there would be force pushing the edge ow the razor down towards the bottom cap. This would explain why EJ DE89 can get away with a 5.44mm clamping distance.

That got me thinking about what role the clamping distance does play, and that got me thinking about sound, and vibration. When you shave with a super thin hollow ground straight razor, it tends to make a sound like buttering burnt toast that can be heard clear across the room. However when you shave with a thick wedge ground razor, it makes little noise at all. Our DE razors are similar in that some tend to be more quiet, and some tend to be a bit louder. Sound is vibration. Vibration suggests that something is moving, and it's either the hair or the razor (or both) making the sound. If something is moving, it is by definition deflecting, and it's easie

Could it be that clamping distance reduces the ability of the razor blade to vibrate? Are razors with a short clamping distance more quiet? Is the Fatip Grande, which has a very short clamping distance (~2mm) more quiet than most razors? Could the reduction of vibration/sound contribute to the "smoothness" of the shave, and the reduction of tugging and irritation? Is vibration resistance a component of rigidity? I haven't a clue but it's interesting to think about.

You may be right that free-end distance is more important than clamping distance for blade deflection, because the direction of force is always up against the top cap. I can't think of an instance during normal shaving where there would be force pushing the edge ow the razor down towards the bottom cap. This would explain why EJ DE89 can get away with a 5.44mm clamping distance.

I thought about this a while back when shimming and the only time you might see the blade deflect backwards is in buffing and only if the person does not lift his razor to start the next forward pass also with a little pressure!(I would think a nick for sure.)

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Could it be that clamping distance reduces the ability of the razor blade to vibrate? Are razors with a short clamping distance more quiet? Is the Fatip Grande, which has a very short clamping distance (~2mm) more quiet than most razors? Could the reduction of vibration/sound contribute to the "smoothness" of the shave, and the reduction of tugging and irritation? Is vibration resistance a component of rigidity? I haven't a clue but it's interesting to think about.

Good questions! Maybe we'll answer them someday.

 

[Cal]

IMO gaps that are perpendicular to the blade edge don't make any difference to rigidity.

Take my beloved 1940s Knockout for example:

All the blade sits on are three "risers":

They clamp the blade wonderfully:

even though they are set back a little from the edge of the cap. (<1mm)

One of the wonderful things about this razor is that all the debris and used lather flow directly under the blade to the other side. Very "non messy," less need to rinse so often, and great for holding the lather for buffing.

Like Mike @Esox, and after @rabidus' training, I'm a confirmed "Rigid Rules" freak and my Knockout checks all the boxes. It's also virtually silent when you get the cutting angle just right.

Bakelite and Brass! Can't beat 'em!

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

IMO gaps that are perpendicular to the blade edge don't make any difference to rigidity.

Take my beloved 1940s Knockout for example:
View attachment 835825

All the blade sits on are three "risers":
View attachment 835826

They clamp the blade wonderfully:
View attachment 835827
even though they are set back a little from the edge of the cap. (<1mm)

One of the wonderful things about this razor is that all the debris and used lather flow directly under the blade to the other side. Very "non messy," less need to rinse so often, and great for holding the lather for buffing.
View attachment 835828
View attachment 835829

Like Mike @Esox, and after @rabidus' training, I'm a confirmed "Rigid Rules" freak and my Knockout checks all the boxes. It's also virtually silent when you get the cutting angle just right.

Bakelite and Brass! Can't beat 'em!
View attachment 835832

Very interesting! Thanks! The silence when cutting would correspond with less vibration and more rigidity. The blade angle looks small if shallow-angle shaving is applied. Of course, you steep-angle shave with it, right?

 

[Raven Koenes]

Very interesting! Thanks! The silence when cutting would correspond with less vibration and more rigidity. The blade angle looks small if shallow-angle shaving is applied. Of course, you steep-angle shave with it, right?

Yup, Cal is a regular @ SASA.

 

[Esox]

I believe the blade can flex with pressure applied against it towards the top cap. Certainly that flex will be much less, but I believe with many designs it can actually be a problem.

Look how many EJ/Merkur users have issues shaving ATG. Tugging, pulling, weepers, irritation and rough feeling shaves. I believe that is all because of a lack of blade support and the blade being allowed to flex too much.

With a razor blade in contact with the skin, it only takes a very minute change of angle or pressure for an unsupported blade to flex. When it flexes it stores energy the same as a spring. When a certain stress level is met, that energy gets released, the blade is forced against the skin with more force than intended and the above effects are felt to one degree or another.

I've explained this before as spring wrap in a vehicles suspension that results in wheel hop because the suspension isnt stiff(rigid) enough. When the car launches, the springs wrap and store energy. When that energy gets released, the tires traction breaks, gains traction again and the cycle is repeated. Something has to give or break. Imagine the suspension being a lack of rigidity in the razor, tire being the blade and the track surface being your skin.

Where this would be a rigid design without the spring wrap.

I'm sure some are able to shave in such a manner that blade flex is removed from the equation, but thats a very fine angle to maintain and not something I personally enjoy focusing on while shaving.

To the harmonics of a blade while shaving, all of my razors are rigid designs. All of my razors are quiet with one exception, my Gillette Regent. I dont understand why that razor is as loud as it is, but it is quite noisy.

My Grande is very quiet and with a very sharp blade, a fresh Gillette Yellow, I neither feel or hear anything during most of the shave. The razor literally feels as though it has no blade in it.

Harmonics of a razor blade will change depending on where and how pressure is applied to it. While harmonics, especially in rifle barrels, greatly affect the accuracy of a rifle, I dont see harmonics, or the change in frequency of those sound waves affecting a razor blade in a way that would affect a shave.

Rifle Accuracy: Barrel Harmonics Effects on Rifle Accuracy Explained

I would also agree that gap itself has no effect on rigidity of the blade or blade edge, but it can affect your skin by how the skin travels through that gap and the angle the skin meets the edge of the blade at.

I believe "guard span" may affect that but I havent yet got my head around it. Essentially the skin is forced into the gap a razor offers, and in turn, forced against the blade edge. I personally find with any of my razors, except the Grande, that with shaves of over 3 passes, no matter my NEW SC or my Tech, after 3 passes my irritation builds. I believe increasing gap will allow irritation to build even quicker for me.

With my Grande having virtually no gap at all, on my use of a Kai blade which I didnt find sharp at all, I needed basically, 4 full passes ATG to get the same level of BBS shave. I had no irritation whatsoever. If I had done 4 passes with that blade in my NEW SC, my skin would have been hot, red and irritated.

The difference being gap between those two razors and how my skin travels through it and is forced against the blade edge.

 

[major_works]

I believe the blade can flex with pressure applied against it towards the top cap. Certainly that flex will be much less, but I believe with many designs it can actually be a problem.

Look how many EJ/Merkur users have issues shaving ATG. Tugging, pulling, weepers, irritation and rough feeling shaves. I believe that is all because of a lack of blade support and the blade being allowed to flex too much.

With a razor blade in contact with the skin, it only takes a very minute change of angle or pressure for an unsupported blade to flex. When it flexes it stores energy the same as a spring. When a certain stress level is met, that energy gets released, the blade is forced against the skin with more force than intended and the above effects are felt to one degree or another.

I've explained this before as spring wrap in a vehicles suspension that results in wheel hop because the suspension isnt stiff(rigid) enough. When the car launches, the springs wrap and store energy. When that energy gets released, the tires traction breaks, gains traction again and the cycle is repeated. Something has to give or break. Imagine the suspension being a lack of rigidity in the razor, tire being the blade and the track surface being your skin.

Where this would be a rigid design without the spring wrap.

I'm sure some are able to shave in such a manner that blade flex is removed from the equation, but thats a very fine angle to maintain and not something I personally enjoy focusing on while shaving.

To the harmonics of a blade while shaving, all of my razors are rigid designs. All of my razors are quiet with one exception, my Gillette Regent. I dont understand why that razor is as loud as it is, but it is quite noisy.

My Grande is very quiet and with a very sharp blade, a fresh Gillette Yellow, I neither feel or hear anything during most of the shave. The razor literally feels as though it has no blade in it.

Harmonics of a razor blade will change depending on where and how pressure is applied to it. While harmonics, especially in rifle barrels, greatly affect the accuracy of a rifle, I dont see harmonics, or the change in frequency of those sound waves affecting a razor blade in a way that would affect a shave.

Rifle Accuracy: Barrel Harmonics Effects on Rifle Accuracy Explained

I would also agree that gap itself has no effect on rigidity of the blade or blade edge, but it can affect your skin by how the skin travels through that gap and the angle the skin meets the edge of the blade at.

I believe "guard span" may affect that but I havent yet got my head around it. Essentially the skin is forced into the gap a razor offers, and in turn, forced against the blade edge. I personally find with any of my razors, except the Grande, that with shaves of over 3 passes, no matter my NEW SC or my Tech, after 3 passes my irritation builds. I believe increasing gap will allow irritation to build even quicker for me.

With my Grande having virtually no gap at all, on my use of a Kai blade which I didnt find sharp at all, I needed basically, 4 full passes ATG to get the same level of BBS shave. I had no irritation whatsoever. If I had done 4 passes with that blade in my NEW SC, my skin would have been hot, red and irritated.

The difference being gap between those two razors and how my skin travels through it and is forced against the blade edge.

A question regarding your last sentence and the pernicious effects of blade gap, if I may. I understand what you've been saying about razors with more gap allow skin to kinda sorta "catch" between the bottom of the blade edge and the top of the guard, causing irritation. But with proper "no pressure" technique, shouldn't that effect be largely mitigated, if not eliminated? After all, skin isn't so thin that it should want to "flow" into that gap unless one were really dragging the razor hard, yes? (well, SOME people's skin might be that thin *coughTrumpcough*)

 

[Esox]

A question regarding your last sentence and the pernicious effects of blade gap, if I may. I understand what you've been saying about razors with more gap allow skin to kinda sorta "catch" between the bottom of the blade edge and the top of the guard, causing irritation. But with proper "no pressure" technique, shouldn't that effect be largely mitigated, if not eliminated? After all, skin isn't so thin that it should want to "flow" into that gap unless one were really dragging the razor hard, yes? (well, SOME people's skin might be that thin *coughTrumpcough*)

We all use some pressure. I dont believe it possible for myself to shave with no pressure whatsoever and keep the blade edge in contact with the skin consistently. It takes some pressure just to keep the razor and/or blade in contact with the skin. In saying that I have tried using very light pressure, as close to none as I could and I personally find that an uncomfortable shave as the razor cant do its job as it was designed to using a largely "neutral" angle. The SB/comb and cap I feel are there to help the skin stretch tighter as the blade cuts, and this is essentially what gap helps accomplish.

How soft ones skin is, or how thin, sensitive ect, obviously depends and that effect will be different for everyone.

I personally use enough pressure to keep the razor in contact with my skin firmly enough to avoid any skipping, and that varies with blade sharpness as well as rigidity of the blade edge.

The amount of skin that enters and travels through that gap is dependent on pressure applied and angle of use, along with many other personal factors such as skin type, elasticity ect ect. Less pressure would translate into less skin flowing through that gap, but using a razor at its intended "neutral" angle of use, some skin will flow through that gap. Only the person holding the razor can dictate the amount of pressure they feel they need to use. As a general rule, less is better I agree. It really comes down to ones personal shaving technique.

In the case of adjustable razors, its the gap more so than anything else that changes. Blade exposure may change very slightly, but only in relation to the change in the angle of the blade. In the case of those razors, more gap equals a more "aggressive" shave, because more skin is flowing through that gap and the angle of the skin that contacts the blade will be steeper relative to the same shaving angle of the razor itself.

 

[major_works]

OK, thanks, Mike, for the amplification/clarification. I'm still learning how to minimize pressure, but I do use a fairly heavy 38C. I tend to let it kind of lean against my skin and draw it across and I feel that the weight of the razor does a reasonable job of maintaining contact. Having said that, more often than not, I do get irritation on my neck (no matter what blade I use; some are better than others). The more I read of what you've been saying of late about blade gap and rigidity, the more I want to try something with less gap and more rigidity... like your Fatip Grande, for example, or maybe a RR Old Type.

 

[Cal]

The more I read of what you've been saying of late about blade gap and rigidity, the more I want to try something with less gap and more rigidity... like your Fatip Grande, for example, or maybe a RR Old Type.

I'm biased David. But I'd recommend the heaviest (and smallest) Fatip for you... the magic Piccolo.

I think that "no pressure" is nonsense.
Just see where you get using no pressure with this 16g baby:

 

[major_works]

I'm biased David. But I'd recommend the heaviest (and smallest) Fatip for you... the magic Piccolo.
View attachment 835859

I think that "no pressure" is nonsense.
Just see where you get using no pressure with this 16g baby:
View attachment 835860

It's OK to be biased! And I appreciate the recommendation. Of course, I look at the Piccolo as well. It does have the same head as the Grande, as I understand it. I have read that it's heavier, and I think I'd prefer heavier. Some folks seem not too happy with the handle.. how is it for you?

The last razor I used that was as light as that must have been a disposable of some kind. Right... there's no way to get around having to apply pressure with something like that. For me, pressure is the enemy. I end up feeling like my neck's been scorched.

 

[Esox]

OK, thanks, Mike, for the amplification/clarification. I'm still learning how to minimize pressure, but I do use a fairly heavy 38C. I tend to let it kind of lean against my skin and draw it across and I feel that the weight of the razor does a reasonable job of maintaining contact. Having said that, more often than not, I do get irritation on my neck (no matter what blade I use; some are better than others). The more I read of what you've been saying of late about blade gap and rigidity, the more I want to try something with less gap and more rigidity... like your Fatip Grande, for example, or maybe a RR Old Type.

You're welcome.

Rigidity makes a difference. Some may find that difference minor, others like myself cannot shave without it.

I've never used a Merkur/Muhle/EJ design so I cant say for a fact that I would have issues using one, but at the same time I know I would, especially ATG and even more so again on my neck ATG.

Weight can help mitigate that to a point, which is why I believe so many prefer the Rockwell over the EJ type, but they're essentially the same design. The largest difference being the weight I believe altering the general feel and making it feel as though its a smoother shaver given the same gaps on both razors.



They both clamp the blade in virtually the same place and therefor in my mind, will shave the same. Differences in weight ect notwithstanding.

Compared to a Wolfman out of convenience of finding the picture haha.



Its easy to see which has better blade support. That blade support translates to comfort and smoothness of the shave.

In saying that I'm not belittling either razor. I understand they can work great for some people. I just dont think I'd be one of them.

I will say however, that if someone is having problems with irritation, weepers and shaving ATG with a razor that doesnt fully support the blade, a rigid design may make your world a much happier place. It certainly has mine.

I'm so confident in the fact that rigid designs in razors make such a difference, I'd challenge someone to wait 48 hours between shaves, load their EJ type razor with their blade of choice, and start shaving directly ATG and let me know how they make out.

If someone can actually do that I'd be very surprised. I do that every shave now with my Grande, and I have with my NEW SC as well, as long as the blade is sharp enough to let me. Todays blade was a challenge haha. I'll be posting that shave to my journal shortly.

My Grande Journey

 

[Cal]

It does have the same head as the Grande, as I understand it.

Correct.

I have read that it's heavier, and I think I'd prefer heavier.

Yes it's heavier. It's smaller than the Grande handle, but it's solid brass whereas the Grande is a tube.

Some folks seem not too happy with the handle.. how is it for you?

I like it. I find it easy to grip and very maneuverable. Check out the PLC (Piccolo Lovers Club).

For me, pressure is the enemy.

Think finesse and delicacy rather than "no pressure."

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Compared to a Wolfman out of convenience of finding the picture haha.

View attachment 835864

Its easy to see which has better blade support. That blade support translates to comfort and smoothness of the shave.

In saying that I'm not belittling either razor. I understand they can work great for some people. I just dont think I'd be one of them.

The Wolfman sure does clamp down on the blade much closer to the edge than other razors do, but the profile does not look good to me. I can't say about the blade exposure without a photo-analysis quality picture or getting my hands on the razor, but it is safe to say that the guard span is not small.

Weight can help mitigate that to a point, which is why I believe so many prefer the Rockwell over the EJ type, but they're essentially the same design. The largest difference being the weight I believe altering the general feel and making it feel as though its a smoother shaver given the same gaps on both razors.

View attachment 835862 View attachment 835861

They both clamp the blade in virtually the same place and therefor in my mind, will shave the same. Differences in weight ect notwithstanding.

That's a really interesting theory. You might have something there. I haven't analyzed the Rockwell, but I've seen higher-resolution pictures and it seemed like the profile, at least with the lower numbered plates, could provide smoother shaves than the EJ DE89. Again, I've never shaved with it or analyzed it, though, so maybe a lot of the praise for the razor comes from the extra weight as you propose.

We all use some pressure. I dont believe it possible for myself to shave with no pressure whatsoever and keep the blade edge in contact with the skin consistently. It takes some pressure just to keep the razor and/or blade in contact with the skin. In saying that I have tried using very light pressure, as close to none as I could and I personally find that an uncomfortable shave as the razor cant do its job as it was designed to using a largely "neutral" angle. The SB/comb and cap I feel are there to help the skin stretch tighter as the blade cuts, and this is essentially what gap helps accomplish.

I think that "no pressure" is nonsense.

I agree with @Esox and @Cal on the issue of pressure. I'm still not as experienced as others, but based on my experience with different amounts of applied pressure with different razors and blades, I've found that some pressure works best for me. I believe that I'm using a moderate amount of pressure, maybe even more than average, but that's impossible to say for certain. Some pressure is needed for me to control the razor and cut through my tough hair. With the Bevel, which I've just recently started using, I can apply even more pressure without an issue because of the smaller guard span.

 

[Esox]

The Wolfman sure does clamp down on the blade much closer to the edge than other razors do, but the profile does not look good to me. I can't say about the blade exposure without a photo-analysis quality picture or getting my hands on the razor, but it is safe to say that the guard span is not small.

The profile of the Wolfman WR1 is rather squarish looking which I dont believe would lend itself to the most comfortable face feel, but each WR1 is an individual as they can be custom designed in relation to choice of blade gap, and choice of blade exposure. He will design a razor tailored to you and your technique as an individual, assuming you know exactly what you need. Neither, would change the overall profile very much though I dont think.

That's a really interesting theory. You might have something there. I haven't analyzed the Rockwell, but I've seen higher-resolution pictures and it seemed like the profile, at least with the lower numbered plates, could provide smoother shaves than the EJ DE89. Again, I've never shaved with it or analyzed it, though, so maybe a lot of the praise for the razor comes from the extra weight as you propose.

I see added weight as an increase in momentum, which in theory, would equate to a smoother more efficient feel of the razor. How well that translated to efficiency of the razors ability to cut is questionable.

I see the lack of support as the major handicap with that design, but then again, I relate all razors to how I think they would shave me.

In regards to pressure, I actually use quite a lot and I shave very quickly. I want and like an aggressive shave and I want that shave to be as efficient as I can make it so that the blade is contacting my skin for the least amount of time possible. At the same time, I want that shave to have as little feel as possible. An extremely rigid blade, combined with generous exposure and a very sharp blade is what works the best for me in regards to comfort and efficiency.

With that combination I cant get any irritation unless I make a mistake.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

The profile of the Wolfman WR1 is rather squarish looking which I dont believe would lend itself to the most comfortable face feel, but each WR1 is an individual as they can be custom designed in relation to choice of blade gap, and choice of blade exposure. He will design a razor tailored to you and your technique as an individual, assuming you know exactly what you need. Neither, would change the overall profile very much though I dont think.

I agree. The Wolrman WR1's squarish look does not look comfortable.

I see added weight as an increase in momentum, which in theory, would equate to a smoother more efficient feel of the razor. How well that translated to efficiency of the razors ability to cut is questionable.

In general, you're right, but it's not really about the mass but the mass moment of inertia. It depends on how the mass is distributed. Imagine all of the mass right near your fingers. All of the mass right near the fingers would make a razor that is very, very easy to rotate, no matter how heavy the razor is.

In regards to pressure, I actually use quite a lot and I shave very quickly. I want and like an aggressive shave and I want that shave to be as efficient as I can make it so that the blade is contacting my skin for the least amount of time possible. At the same time, I want that shave to have as little feel as possible. An extremely rigid blade, combined with generous exposure and a very sharp blade is what works the best for me in regards to comfort and efficiency.

With that combination I cant get any irritation unless I make a mistake.

It's awesome that you've figured out what works for you. I'm still working that out, but I'm on the right track. For me, small guard span with effectively neutral blade exposure and a sharp blade has worked well. I suspect that shallower blade angles work better, too, but I haven't confirmed that. Regarding blade rigidity, I've experimented with it and haven't seen a significant difference, but in theory, I think that you're right that more blade rigidity is better, and in all fairness, I haven't used a razor with great blade rigidity yet.