The Gillette New: British vs. American

[ChiefBroom]

I found some prior discussion on this topic, but am curious to know what opinions regarding it might be floating around presently. So the question is, are there any significant differences between British News and American News? Interestingly, the poster who started this thread, was a Brit who preferred American News, whereas the Yanks responding seemed to hold a bias for News made in England. It could be that most collectors simply prefer whatever is more exotic and rare wherever they happen to be. Or perhaps well traveled razors make better shaving razors, and so the trip across the Atlantic in either direction results in improvement. If the latter is the case, a repatriated American razor should be even better than a British razor.

 

[dpm802]

Oh ... you're asking about RAZORS ?

I thought this was a thread where I could spout my opinion that the BBC has the best journalists in the world. Bar none. Accurate, unbiased, and often the first ones on the scene. When I need to find out what's going on in America, I check www.news.bbc.co.uk first.

But you're talking about RAZORS ... I have a few English Gillettes, including a Knack TTO (they call it a G3000) an OC with a Hexagonal handle and a sterling silver plated Ball End Tech ... and I prefer English DE razors over their American counterparts. They just seem to be finished a little better and the shave I get from them seems to be just a tad better than any I get from American Gillettes. It could be just a psych-factor, in a blind test I doubt I could tell the difference.

And if you watch the BST and eBay, and English Gillette will generally command a higher price than the same razor from USA. Here again, its hard to explain why ... it could be because they are more rare, but it could also be that they really ARE better than a domestic model.

 

[ChiefBroom]

Of course you're right regarding British journalism.

I too have a acquired bias favoring British Gillettes, but I have more experience with 40s-50s (especially the latter) models. HD Rockets, #58s, #21s, #16s, etc., seem pretty obviously to be sturdier and more substantial than, say, Diplomats/Presidents. And I think the former are better shavers, at least for me. But I haven't been clear on how much of the preference held by many for British Gillettes is based on (and possibly projected from) observed differences that don't really extend back through the News to the Old Types.

<snip>

I prefer English DE razors over their American counterparts. They just seem to be finished a little better and the shave I get from them seems to be just a tad better than any I get from American Gillettes. It could be just a psych-factor, in a blind test I doubt I could tell the difference.

And if you watch the BST and eBay, and English Gillette will generally command a higher price than the same razor from USA. Here again, its hard to explain why ... it could be because they are more rare, but it could also be that they really ARE better than a domestic model.

 

[Arcadies]

Oh ... you're asking about RAZORS ?

I thought this was a thread where I could spout my opinion that the BBC has the best journalists in the world. Bar none. Accurate, unbiased, and often the first ones on the scene. When I need to find out what's going on in America, I check www.news.bbc.co.uk first.

But you're talking about RAZORS ... I have a few English Gillettes, including a Knack TTO (they call it a G3000) an OC with a Hexagonal handle and a sterling silver plated Ball End Tech ... and I prefer English DE razors over their American counterparts. They just seem to be finished a little better and the shave I get from them seems to be just a tad better than any I get from American Gillettes. It could be just a psych-factor, in a blind test I doubt I could tell the difference.

And if you watch the BST and eBay, and English Gillette will generally command a higher price than the same razor from USA. Here again, its hard to explain why ... it could be because they are more rare, but it could also be that they really ARE better than a domestic model.

I too was thinking journalism, was about to chime in about how most British media blows ours away. Anyway, I don't have much experience with British razors. I do own a #58 and it's my go to razor for days I need a fast smooth shave without fear of ripping my face off. (normally use an R41) I find it's a bit more solidly built and refined compared to an American SS, but that's just my opinion and answers nothing about NEWS.

 

[ajc347]

There is a real difference between British and American NEW's in the way they shave and it's all to do with teeth design.

The British Long Comb NEW (from sets such as the Oxford set) is identical to the US New in terms of head design teeth shape and length.

If you look at this photo you can see that the head and teeth design are identical to the US version:



I understand that British razors such as the Belmont DeLuxe had a short comb head which is identical to the US Short Comb NEW (although I can't be 100% sure as I've never owned or seen a Belmont in the flesh).

Where the British NEW's start to deviate from the US NEW's are in models such as the Service sets, Jewellery set, Tech Handled NEW, Hollow Ball-end New and the #77 / #88 set.

I have a couple of photos of some of these from models I've had in my own collection:









Hopefully, you should be able to see from these photos that the tooth design is squarer and thicker in width. The length of the teeth are also shorter than a US Long Comb and longer than a US Short Comb.

It is precisely this reason why I believe that, for me at least, British NEW's of the alternative tooth style shave better than the US equivalents (and British copies of these equivalents).

 

[ajc347]

It's interesting that when you look at other British razors with NEW heads on them such a 7 O'Clocks, Minora's and Rubie's (all of which I understand were made by Gillette) two variants of teeth can be found (there may be more of course, but I've only ever seen two).

The first of these is the same as the Gillette branded British NEW's described above whilst the second is a hybrid between the two. The teeth are as thin as a US Long Comb NEW but as long as a Gillette branded British NEW

I have examples of 7 O'Clocks with both styles of teeth and a Minora and Rubie with the thinner US Long Comb style of tooth.

Here's an example of a Minora and a 7 O'Clock with the hybrid style of tooth:






This is the only 7 O'Clock with the hybrid style teeth I've seen.

The other three I own all have the same teeth design as the Gillette branded British NEW.

 

[xillion]

Here are my side by side comparison of various Gillette OC heads.

More English New heads.

I prefer the shave from the Brit News, particularly the flat bottom and raised flat bottom variety.

Also, I find that the cap used on the Brit head makes a difference. For me the caps without the
corner tabs work best.

 

[ChiefBroom]

Thanks for the great replies!!!!

And thanks to the mod who fixed my lame thread title.

 

[ajc347]

Thanks for the comparison photos Chris.

I've never given much thought to the difference in caps before.

I'm incomplete agreement with what you say about the raised and flat bottom heads giving a far better shave.

I'm now wondering if this is due to a combination of the different cap and tooth style or just the cap alone?

 

[cernel_joson]

I always loved that photo of all the NEW heads. So the flat twin pin heads are actually better shavers than the American style and round pin versions? They always struck me as looking less secure than the round pin heads.

I'm considering putting a Weber bulldog handle on a British NEW head. Has anyone given that a shot? I get the impression that it'll be like putting a Chevy small block v8 in an Austin Healey.

 

[ChiefBroom]

I always loved that photo of all the NEW heads. So the flat twin pin heads are actually better shavers than the American style and round pin versions? They always struck me as looking less secure than the round pin heads.

I'm considering putting a Weber bulldog handle on a British NEW head. Has anyone given that a shot? I get the impression that it'll be like putting a Chevy small block v8 in an Austin Healey.

I don't have a basis for comparison yet, but what I can say is that the #77/#88s I have are completely solid and secure. No movement at all.

Re a Chevy small block in an Austin Healy, sounds kinda like a Sunbeam Tiger. That should go very fast!

This isn't a Weber bulldog handle on a British NEW head, but maybe it's in the same ballpark.

 

[ajc347]

I always loved that photo of all the NEW heads. So the flat twin pin heads are actually better shavers than the American style and round pin versions? They always struck me as looking less secure than the round pin heads.

I'm considering putting a Weber bulldog handle on a British NEW head. Has anyone given that a shot? I get the impression that it'll be like putting a Chevy small block v8 in an Austin Healey.

I've never had any problems with any of the British New heads I've tried; they all feel secure. I've got a British Goodwill and a British Rubie head which have a tooth missing (so are good for shaving with on one side only). I'm happy to PIF them to you if you want to give them a try.

With regard to the Bulldog handle, I've mated both an Ikon and Weber handle to a British New head and they work perfectly well together; I'm not a great fan of either handle though (as the size to weight ratio doesn't feel right to me), so I've gone back to using either the original or some BRW handles instead.

 

[cernel_joson]

Thanks for the generous offer, but I've got a service set heading my way, so I'll get to see for myself how it'll shave. I had a feeling that the heavy handle might throw off the balance of the razor. Ah well. Maybe after shaving with the service set for a while I'll spring for an alternative handle.

 

[Big W]

I would like to add a British NEW to my collection one day...tried a loner once and as I recall it was a nice shaver indeed!

 

[ChiefBroom]

I would like to add a British NEW to my collection one day...tried a loner once and as I recall it was a nice shaver indeed!

I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again. 4 weeks ago the British #21 was my favorite razor -- used it 4+ days out of 5. Then Jake pushed (and that's really what he is, a pusher) a #88 off onto me. I didn't have much enthusiasm for it, but felt obliged to give it a try. I've shaved with nothing else since, except a couple of days that I started out with with a #21 or #58 (my two favorite solid-guard drivers), but was ultimately overcome by separation anxiety before completing a first pass and finished with the #88 (or #77 that I've added to the arsenal). They're not visually impressive like a #21 or #16, but shave circles around everything else I've tried.

 

[Jake]

Now that's a testimony to great shavers & great razors. Although everyone responds with "YMMV", I think the chief has really discovered the grail. There's a chance it will change over time, but the New #77/#88 really satisfies much of what the DE shaver is looking for. We are now a majority of 2 Ken!

 

[Big W]

ajc347, can you clear your PM box, I have a question!

 

[ajc347]

Whoops!

Sorry about that mate - all cleared now.

 

[Broccoli Man]

Can someone explain what, if anything, was the rationale behind the asymmetrical placement of the pins on the English head in ajc and xillion's pictures (bottom row, second from the left)? Is there some advantage to this design?

 

[ajc347]

I suspect that the move to smaller tabs was done for reasons of cost-saving, as less metal is needed to hold the head in place in the slots of the baseplate.

I'm not sure why they are offset and can't see any logical reason why they would need to necessarily be offset (Mr Razor's website does have a picture of a French Service Set which has small tabs which are not offset). I cannot see that there is any ergonomic advantage to the smaller pin style of design either (whether the pins are offset or not).

The other reason I suspect that the move to smaller pins was a cost-saving measure is that the baseplate of the biased twin pin head is thinner than other twin pin heads I've seen (from Gillette, 7 O'Clock and Rubie), and the finish on them, whilst still excellent, are not as good as other twin pin heads.

It's difficult to describe in words but if you see them side-by-side I am sure that you could see what I mean.

It was also noticeable when I tried to fit handles that would work perfectly well on normal twin pin heads onto a biased twin head and found that the connection between the baseplate and handle was loose.