Swarf removal tool/Stone cleaning tool - other than a lapping plate

[Gamma]

I will get myself a straightedge to remove All the guesswork and not rely on acrylic or glass etc. I don't have any marble nor granit.

Marble or granite are rarely flat - a granite surface plate is flat but it doesn't work for this purpose because there is no 'edge' to work with. Having the thin edge of a rule to use here is just as important as it is for that edge to be flat.

So I will check the stones properly Once I get it. Just to clarify - a straightedge is a steel tool I Can get at a hardware shop thats supposed to be straight to a certain tolerance? English isnt my first language...

Yes, that is correct. Amazon has some inexpensive options. Ebay might also. I use one made by Starrett 385-12, but the cost has doubled in the last few years. It's a very good tool, and recommended, but the cost significant, I think.

Warping - yes. My superstones warp, the 3k is Beyond saving. 8k warped but I "straightened it" by eye and it lapped until consistently removing All pencil grid in around 5 laps. But still, god knows what happens with it overnight.

Lapping off grids with those stones does not yield a flat surface. Even if it did work today, tomorrow it's not flat. Warping super stones are highly problematic. Maybe epoxying them to a piece of tile cut to size could help.

Do you recommend having the Stone in the Holder on the table and lapping with the plate on top? Rather than laping hand held. I do that when removing swarf lightly sometimes.

I like to (over)think and I like to get things the proper, prove-able, measurable way.

I do not lap for flatness without running water. It is essential for removing the swarf that impedes my being able to attain flatness. If the swarf builds up, it can stick and create issues. Some diamond plates are prone to this, like DMT diafine types, so I use plates with a more interrupted surface - Atoma, or DMT duofine. I flatten in the sink, not on a table.
I use a rubber pad, not a holder but it is the same thing essentially, I will put the plate on the pad, and I will change to putting the stone on the pad.

I might do some light lapping hand held, just to clear swarf. But my stones were already proven to be flat and they get lapped flat regularly so a little hand-held work is fine. Even so, even with light lapping, like over 90% of the time, I will have the pad in the sink, the plate on the pad, and lap the stone on top with water running.

If I am working at the bench where there is no running water, I use a spray bottle to powerjet the swarf off, and my fingers. I usually will not use a diamond plate there. If I do, I may use a small 2" / 50mm Square diamond nagura to rub it down with. I am still going to go to the sink most times though. Embedded swarf is difficult to get rid of without having running water and an abrasive surface to clear it.

How all of this is done though, is not nearly as important as proving what you did worked or didn't.
Hence getting a reliable straight edge. A very good ruler can substitute but I just saw a certified straight edge for less than $20 for sale online somewhere. I forget where, maybe Amazon.

Note - stones don't need to be NASA engineer level flat but when they are all as flat as possible then the variables have been minimized and consistency can be established easily.

 

[TheBeast]

You can get this effect before anything is flat if you are using a lapping plate that is too fine.
What grit is your lapping plate?

If I use my dmt 1200 it will just stick to the stone. The atome 1200 is a little better, but my preferred plate is 400/600. These will not stick to the stone as much. If I need to dress the surface finer I use a nagura or sandpaper.

I have a 150/600 grit plate and use the 600 side mostly. That does get stickier than the 150. I will get an atoma 400 or 600 - havent decided yet. Just to have a little peace of mind that I have the same stuff most people here use and I Can refer to.

 

[TheBeast]

Marble or granite are rarely flat - a granite surface plate is flat but it doesn't work for this purpose because there is no 'edge' to work with. Having the thin edge of a rule to use here is just as important as it is for that edge to be flat.

Yes, that is correct. Amazon has some inexpensive options. Ebay might also. I use one made by Starrett 385-12, but the cost has doubled in the last few years. It's a very good tool, and recommended, but the cost significant, I think.

Lapping off grids with those stones does not yield a flat surface. Even if it did work today, tomorrow it's not flat. Warping super stones are highly problematic. Maybe epoxying them to a piece of tile cut to size could help.


I do not lap for flatness without running water. It is essential for removing the swarf that impedes my being able to attain flatness. If the swarf builds up, it can stick and create issues. Some diamond plates are prone to this, like DMT diafine types, so I use plates with a more interrupted surface - Atoma, or DMT duofine. I flatten in the sink, not on a table.
I use a rubber pad, not a holder but it is the same thing essentially, I will put the plate on the pad, and I will change to putting the stone on the pad.

I might do some light lapping hand held, just to clear swarf. But my stones were already proven to be flat and they get lapped flat regularly so a little hand-held work is fine. Even so, even with light lapping, like over 90% of the time, I will have the pad in the sink, the plate on the pad, and lap the stone on top with water running.

If I am working at the bench where there is no running water, I use a spray bottle to powerjet the swarf off, and my fingers. I usually will not use a diamond plate there. If I do, I may use a small 2" / 50mm Square diamond nagura to rub it down with. I am still going to go to the sink most times though. Embedded swarf is difficult to get rid of without having running water and an abrasive surface to clear it.

How all of this is done though, is not nearly as important as proving what you did worked or didn't.
Hence getting a reliable straight edge. A very good ruler can substitute but I just saw a certified straight edge for less than $20 for sale online somewhere. I forget where, maybe Amazon.

Note - stones don't need to be NASA engineer level flat but when they are all as flat as possible then the variables have been minimized and consistency can be established easily.

Right, thanks. I will get inspired by this method and put the Stone/plate in the Stone Holder, place it in the bathtub (the sink is tiny) and rub the stone/plate on top of that with running water. Then check with the straightedge. And be sure to check regulary to be sure. From there I should get a feel for it.

 

[kcb5150]

Unless it's something ridiculously abrasive I just use my hand under the tap

 

[Frank Shaves]

Diamond plate and fingers under running water. I had been using a cheap 400/1000 Chinese diamond plate and then recently (when it wore out) bought 400 and 1200 Atoma plates. Loving the Atoma plates.

 

[TheBeast]

My super stones are definitely not nearly flat and I didnt even need a straightedge. I mean, when I look at them I can see the warp/bend. When I put them one on top of the other, ("flat faces" touching), I can clearly see through the gap between them. Crazy convexity. Funny enough, my 1k which is about 3-4mm thick is straighter than my 5k and 8k which are about 8mm thick. I tried bending them back by hand, making a sandwich with the diamond plate and a piece of thick acrylic under the feet of a heavy table. But they still warp randomly after getting wet and drying.

For now they are going back into their boxes and to the bottom of the drawer. And I wont hone anymore till I get a set of Shapton pros. I decided on 1.5k, 5k and 8k. I will keep finnishing on pasted balsa until I feel "worthy" to try naturals. I'll also get an Atoma 600 since my diamond plate has very rough edges and I basically removed all of the abrasive in some spots when I was grind a warped spine on a Gold Dollar. Oh, and a straightedge to be certain of what is going on.

Later on I will get some tile/glass/acrylic, flatten it with wet/dry on the back of the Atoma and epoxy the superstones to that. Hopefully I can then lap them flat for real and they stay that way. I'm not gonna lie, it's kind of funny (frustrating) how these stones can do that in their price range. Granted I'm not an experienced honer, but I feel capable enough with all your help.

And some good news. I started lapping with the diamond plate in a stone holder and on a wet hand towel at the bottom of the kitchen sink with running water. Works great. Removing swarf is done in 5 seconds of light rubbing. Will keep that up with my new gear.

And I was able to set a shaving worthy bevel on the 1k last night, after a new experimental and practice Gold dollar arrived.

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

I have a 150/600 grit plate and use the 600 side mostly. That does get stickier than the 150. I will get an atoma 400 or 600 - havent decided yet. Just to have a little peace of mind that I have the same stuff most people here use and I Can refer to.

The SK-11 plates (150/600 and 400/1000) are designed with that convex/concave warp on purpose. Why? I don’t know. They are an inexpensive plate selling for ¥3,900 ($30) in Japan. They are good bargain but just know what you are dealing with. I have two.

The concave side rounding off the edges of the stone making it ever-so-slightly convex isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Some claim convexing stones is the bees knees. I don’t know about all that but I do know I like my edges low and out of the way.

I find that the 600 side leaves deep gouges and cuts fast. I will often use that side first then use the 150 side after which leaves shallower gouges and a better surface. Seems contradictory but diamonds are often like this.

It is an inexpensive stone that does good work for the money. Perfect for synthetics. For naturals which are finishers I need to progress to a finer finishing plate. The 1”x3” Ez-lap plate is very cheap and does an excellent job. This also generates a very fine slurry so it doubles as a Diamond nagura.

 

[TheBeast]

The SK-11 plates (150/600 and 400/1000) are designed with that convex/concave warp on purpose. Why? I don’t know. They are an inexpensive plate selling for ¥3,900 ($30) in Japan. They are good bargain but just know what you are dealing with. I have two.

The concave side rounding off the edges of the stone making it ever-so-slightly convex isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Some claim convexing stones is the bees knees. I don’t know about all that but I do know I like my edges low and out of the way.

I find that the 600 side leaves deep gouges and cuts fast. I will often use that side first then use the 150 side after which leaves shallower gouges and a better surface. Seems contradictory but diamonds are often like this.

It is an inexpensive stone that does good work for the money. Perfect for synthetics. For naturals which are finishers I need to progress to a finer finishing plate. The 1”x3” Ez-lap plate is very cheap and does an excellent job. This also generates a very fine slurry so it doubles as a Diamond nagura.

Thats great info, thanks. I noticed those deep gouges from the 600 as well but made myself to consider them normal, since I don't have anything to compare.

I would like to keep the convexity out of the equation for now. Get things as consistent, simple and precise as I can. Connect Theory with a hands on experience. Imagine it, think it, try it, prove it right.

At least I noticed that the plate isn't straight/flat. So I will get the atoma and non-warping stones, in an effort to make things more simple for myself and to get a better shaving edge. And in hope my working surface and bevel will not be convex. If I had a SEM FIB microscope I would sure like to see some micro-convex bevel in action. But not right now. Back to basics never did anything but improve my results with anything I do and deepened my Bond with the activity.